Level crossing stupidity...

[meil]

I asked what the yellow sign under the traffic lights meant (it had been there on each occasion) 

 

 

Andy

And you were driving????

[hammy]

Level crossing safety should be compulsorily on every driving theory test in my opinion failing that make the watch the top gear level crossing segment tounge in cheek but got the message over ( always wear a hi viz lol)

[The Stationmaster]

Level crossing safety should be compulsorily on every driving theory test in my opinion failing that make the watch the top gear level crossing segment tounge in cheek but got the message over ( always wear a hi viz lol)

Oddly it was a major area of questioning on my Driving Test - back in 1965

[hammy]

Not on mine in 2003 don't think there was 1 question

[caradoc]

In an ideal world all level crossings would be of the automatic half barrier (AHB) type, which keep delays to road traffic to an absolute minimum. However, because motorists cannot be trusted to stop at red lights, or indeed lowered barriers, many level crossings have to have full barriers instead, which require the crossing to be proved to be clear (ie that no idiot has managed to get themselves trapped on the crossing inside the lowered barriers, again through ignoring red lights) either by a human being (on site or via CCTV), or via obstacle detectors (OD). Indeed, the AHB crossing at Kirknewton, on the Edinburgh-Carstairs route, has recently been replaced by a full barrier with OD type, for two reasons; It was one of the most misused crossings in the country, and the original plan to build a bridge was impractical and very expensive. As a result the crossing is now closed to road traffic for longer than before. However, motorists shouldn't complain - It is their own fault.

 

(Edited for spelling mistake)

Edited July 6, 2013 by caradoc

[SM42]

Yes Meil I was driving.(I would have thought Mrs SM42 may have said something first time though) No, Trofimow,  it's not a green Mercedes

 

However the moral of my little story is that we shouldn't take things for granted, especially in a foreign land, where the great lump of text on a yellow background does not always convey the correct message to the  foreign visitor.

 

We are all used to trusting the lights in this country but the same rules don't always apply abroad. Likewise foreign rules don't apply here either.

 

Hammy is right, Level crossings do not feature too heavily in the driving test stuff I've seen and if you don't live near one it probably will never come up during your lessons. I live within 5 miles of two and we never went near them on my lessons.

 

Education is an important tool and the railway companies worldwide have been doing their best but there will always be those that think they know better.

 

It is probably a similar situation to the seat belt and drink driving campaigns of the past. The message is getting through but slowly.

 

One final possible factor is that the vast majority of crossing are not public roads. They are on private land or footpaths and regular use breeds complacency.

 

Andy

Edited July 9, 2013 by SM42

[martin_wynne]

The road driver was not at fault in this one reported by RAIB today:

 

http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/current_investigations_register/130606_llandovery.cfm

 

 

Nor in this one -- RAIB report just published:

 

 http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/130729_R112013_Lindridge_Farm.pdf

 

It makes interesting reading in light of recent news about the closing of signalboxes.

 

Martin.

[Oldddudders]

Nor in this one -- RAIB report just published:

 

 http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/130729_R112013_Lindridge_Farm.pdf

 

It makes interesting reading in light of recent news about the closing of signalboxes.

 

Martin.

Interesting indeed. I wonder if anyone has told the unfortunate and innocent motorist what was wrong and what has been done about it. Since she seems to use the crossing daily, and would be uneasy about the event, this would seem a minimum requirement.

[beast66606]

Slightly ironic that "this crossing is being monitored for misuse"

[unravelled]

Slightly different I know, but I was on Croydon Tramlink recently, and interested to see the driver make a very slow departure from one stop just before a level crossing. My assumption was that he wanted to block the crossing to allow the approaching tram to reach it, so that people who might be tempted to cross behind him wouldn't be at risk. Is this likely to be a recommended procedure, or just one driver's method of working. It seemed a good idea to me.

 

Dave

[SRman]

A drunk driver hit a tram (actually on light rail at that point) on a level crossing after trying to beat the boom gates on the Port Melbourne line: report here http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tram-derailed-by-car-20130726-2qppl.html

Picture here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/4846972-3x2-940x627.jpg  

 

 

No doubt at all who was at fault here!

Edited July 29, 2013 by SRman

[beast66606]

Slightly different I know, but I was on Croydon Tramlink recently, and interested to see the driver make a very slow departure from one stop just before a level crossing. My assumption was that he wanted to block the crossing to allow the approaching tram to reach it, so that people who might be tempted to cross behind him wouldn't be at risk. Is this likely to be a recommended procedure, or just one driver's method of working. It seemed a good idea to me.

 

Dave

 

On the big railway a second train approaching is detected by track circuits / treadles - if this second train is within the operating time for an AHB (37s) and an additional time element (the barriers have to raise after the first train and some time has to be given to prevent people thinking it's a false activation) the barriers stay down - whether the trams operate this way, or if the driver was indeed doing as you suggest I'm afraid I don't know.

[meil]

Slightly different I know, but I was on Croydon Tramlink recently, and interested to see the driver make a very slow departure from one stop just before a level crossing. My assumption was that he wanted to block the crossing to allow the approaching tram to reach it, so that people who might be tempted to cross behind him wouldn't be at risk. Is this likely to be a recommended procedure, or just one driver's method of working. It seemed a good idea to me.

 

Dave

Same on the Midland Metro.

[trisonic]

Picture here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/4846972-3x2-940x627.jpg  

 

 

No doubt at all who was at fault here!

That old saying: "Bent in the middle like a one string fiddle..." immediately sprang unbidden in my mind.

 

Best, Pete.

[Glorious NSE]

Looking at level crossings from a differing view point, it can be said that what was once a more than adequate and acceptable method of road and rail crossings has now become outdated.

 

I think that is broadly accepted, although you kinda have to start from the present reality that they already exist, mostly they work reliably and safely, and it will cost 'us' lots and lots of money and/or disruption if we want to entirely eradicate them.

 

But with the mindset that having them is less than ideal on the modern railway, then things can be done  - there's a positive story in the most recent Modern Railways which says that NR have just closed their 700th crossing since 2009. I guess from such a high number in such a small timescale we can assume that there will have been quite a lot of relative 'easy wins' out there, but it's still a positive thing...

 

(edit to correct figure on re-reading the bit in the mag!)

Edited July 29, 2013 by Glorious NSE

[Edwin_m]

On the big railway a second train approaching is detected by track circuits / treadles - if this second train is within the operating time for an AHB (37s) and an additional time element (the barriers have to raise after the first train and some time has to be given to prevent people thinking it's a false activation) the barriers stay down - whether the trams operate this way, or if the driver was indeed doing as you suggest I'm afraid I don't know.

Nothing like that on a tramway, which basically follows highway practice.  Crossings on segregated tramways normally just have passive measures, although a red/green man or the obsolete arrangement of orange flashing lights may be provided at particularly risky sites.  Having said that there have been quite a few serious incidents where trams have struck pedestrians on crossings and the designers are now much more aware of the issues. 

[Adrian Wintle]

But with the mindset that having them is less than ideal on the modern railway, then things can be done  - there's a positive story in the most recent Modern Railways which says that NR have just closed their 700th crossing since 2009. I guess from such a high number in such a small timescale we can assume that there will have been quite a lot of relative 'easy wins' out there, but it's still a positive thing...

 

But, does that involve replacing them with alternative crossings (bridges, underpasses), or just closing them and increasing the traffic volume on the remaining crossings (and the ire of the inconvenienced users)? I will grant that some (probably a lot) of the closed crossings likely had very low traffic volumes, but it does beg the question of the knock-on effects. Ideally you are looking to improve the entire transportation system, not just one portion of it at the expense of another.

 

Adrian

[Richard E]

At least one closure that will take place soon is replacement of the crossing with a bridge - that is Joan Croft Lane, Holme, Doncaster. The crossing is a minor road across the ECML. It will mean the loss of staff to man the crossing.

[Glorious NSE]

Adrian - as they will all have been a right-of-way for somebody at some point in time then none of them will have been arbitrarily closed with no regard for usage.

 

Ref my comment on 'easy wins' - I would expect a large proportion of the 700 would not be public road crossings, but private access crossings, bridleways or footpaths, and some of those would be seldom used and potentially diverted towards existing nearby bridges, or possibly even fully disused...

 

In addition, crossing upgrades for ones that aren't easy to get rid of have increased. A quick scan of the Trackwatch column in Modern Railways for the following months shows the following changes reported in two consecutive months:

 

July edition:

Closed - 3x user worked (usually private) crossings

Closed - 1x AOCL (public road) crossing (minor road diverted to an adjacent crossing)

Upgraded - 2x user worked (usually private) crossings (phone installation)

Upgraded - 1x AOCL (public road) crossing upgraded with a barrier

(There's also a couple of changes of control method of other crossings, but I don't think they will fundamentally change safety levels)

 

Aug edition:

Closed - 2x user worked (usually private) crossings

Closed - 1x footpath crossing

Upgraded - 1x user worked (usually private) crossings (obstacle detector)

Upgraded - 6x user worked (usually private) crossings (phone installation)

Upgraded - 1x AHBC (public road) crossing upgraded from half to full barriers

Upgraded - 1x AOCL (public road) crossing upgraded with a barrier

 

Individually they might not make a lot of difference, but overall, as a local supermarket says - 'every little helps'...

[beast66606]

Whilst trying to find information about a crossing closure on the Felixstowe branch I came across this alternate point of view !

[station cat]

They've got a point. It is a great shame to close useful crossings just because some people are incapable of taking basic safety precautions or following simple instructions.

 

I would like to see running crossings penalised far more heavily, if drivers got 6 penalty points and a £2000 fine that would put them off. Admittedly it wouldn't deter cyclists and pedestrians but then they don't have such a detrimental effect on the trains that hit them. The money from the fines could be used to fund awareness/safety campaigns aimed at all crossing users.

[martin_wynne]

The road user clearly at fault here, but in unusual circumstances:

 

 http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/current_investigations_register/130716_buttington_hall.cfm

 

Is there any legal requirement that it is the actual driver who obtains permission to cross?

[beast66606]

Is there any legal requirement that it is the actual driver who obtains permission to cross?

 

No (at least I don't think so) - it's just "permission", I've obtained permission for a police constable riding a horse over a crossing several times.

[ZiderHead]

There was a fatality at a crossing on the Cherwell Valley Line earlier this year. I always make a point of detouring over this crossing if I can on the offchance of being stopped for one of the many freight trains, almost always 66s but you never know (I cant be the only one here who does this )

 

Now I usually quite like Michael Crick's work, but this piece (http://blogs.channel4.com/michael-crick-on-politics/technical-problems-for-years-at-oxfordshire-level-crossing-where-man-died/2084) just beggars belief. 

 

According to Mr Crick's "source in the railway industry":

 

“There’s been an ongoing fault for four years,” the source says.

 

“The Network Rail maintenance team have not been able to fix it. The barrier arms stay down much longer than they should do.”

 

This means that during busy periods, queues of traffic build up on either side of the line.

 

“So if there is a case where a freight train, say, quickly follows a passenger train then the queue of cars may not have been cleared before the barriers come down again.”

 

I wasnt aware that you could ignore the crossing lights and sirens as long as you are in a queue of traffic and you've been waiting there for a while ... 

[beast66606]

Now I usually quite like Michael Crick's work, but this piece (http://blogs.channel4.com/michael-crick-on-politics/technical-problems-for-years-at-oxfordshire-level-crossing-where-man-died/2084) just beggars belief. 

 

According to Mr Crick's "source in the railway industry":

 

 

He did get a good verbal kicking for the article though - rightly so.