Level crossing stupidity...

[Jeremy Cumberland]

41 minutes ago, Hobby said:

In the UK Highway Codes 81 and 82 cover it.

 

Do not ride across a pelican, puffin or zebra crossing. Dismount and wheel your cycle across (81).

 

82 covers Toucan Crossings - and says cyclists are allowed to ride across but must take care when pedestrians are also crossing.

Oh, bloody hell. I do try to keep up with driving law, but do I now need to re-read the Highway Code to find out what a toucan crossing is? Obviously it's something to do with Guinness, but beyond that I'm stumped.

 

What's a puffin crossing for that matter? Something to do with paperback books?

 

We all know what a zebra crossing is, and when pelican crossings were invented of course they had to name it after something that was not a zebra, which rather limited the choice.

[Hobby]

😂

 

Yes I had to look up toucan crossings as well, though I suspect that there's not too many around except in large cities?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toucan_crossing

 

Puffins just seem to be an updated, pedestrian friendly, version of a Pelican crossing so you're safe there!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffin_crossing

 

As far as us drivers are concerned they all have traffic lights so stop if the light is red!! 

 

Pelican - PEdestrian LIght CONtrolled

Puffin - Pedestrian user-friendly intelligent

Toucan - “two can” cross together (pedestrians and cyclists!)... Groan...

Edited October 11, 2023 by Hobby

[corneliuslundie]

As a cyclist and not a driver, I unfortunately agree about the behaviour of too many cyclists. 

But back to pedestrian crossings over railway lines, would pedestrians take any notice if there were "traffic" lights? Even supposedly responsible drivers who should know better don't always, as demonstrated by cases where contractors working for farmers have misused private crossings.

I am afraid that the only way people will learn is if there are some deaths. But I would not want that to happen.

Jonathan

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

... would pedestrians take any notice if there were "traffic" lights? ...

Maybe a big neon sign that lights up saying "STOP NOW, THERE REALLY IS A TRAIN COMING" might do the trick ............ but then ...............

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Maybe a big neon sign that lights up saying "STOP NOW, THERE REALLY IS A TRAIN COMING" might do the trick ............ but then ...............

Nope.  Our local railway bridge has a great big sign with yellow flashing lights that starts up "OVERHEIGHT VEHICLE DIVERT" when sensors detect an approaching lorry that's too high.  The bridge still gets bashed. 

[Ian Smeeton]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Maybe a big neon sign that lights up saying "STOP NOW, THERE REALLY IS A TRAIN COMING" might do the trick ............ but then ...............

 

 

Naah,

 

Cyclists don't read the wallpaper.

 

And if they do, it doesn't apply to them.

 

Regards,

 

Ian

 

Crossing Keeper, Wymondham

[Wickham Green too]

I thought we'd finished bashing cyclists - for a bit - and got onto pedestrians !!?! 😎

[Nick C]

12 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I thought we'd finished bashing cyclists - for a bit - and got onto pedestrians !!?! 😎

Most of those don't seem to pay any attention to what's going on around them either!

[Wickham Green too]

Then there are motorists ............

[kevinlms]

17 hours ago, Hobby said:

😂

 

Yes I had to look up toucan crossings as well, though I suspect that there's not too many around except in large cities?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toucan_crossing

 

Puffins just seem to be an updated, pedestrian friendly, version of a Pelican crossing so you're safe there!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffin_crossing

 

As far as us drivers are concerned they all have traffic lights so stop if the light is red!! 

 

Pelican - PEdestrian LIght CONtrolled

Puffin - Pedestrian user-friendly intelligent

Toucan - “two can” cross together (pedestrians and cyclists!)... Groan...

There is a Pegasus type crossing near me in Australia. However I believe that the riding school it was installed for has closed down. I haven't seen it used for years.

 

As far as us drivers are concerned they all have traffic lights so stop if the light is red!! 

 

Hooray,this is the whole point of any crossing and applies to all, not just motorised drivers!

[Hobby]

Who are certainly also pedestrians and in many cases cyclists as well... Perhaps it's the same people in all three categories that cause all the issues! EDIT: To WG's post!! 🤣

 

Over 30+  years of commuting into Brum I saw very few pedestrians running red lights, I could count the numbers of motorists on one hand, but I could guarantee at least one cyclist every week. Then we had the introduction of e scooters and e bikes in the past few years which made the whole experience much worse. I would say, however, that most of the miscreants were to be found within a few miles of the city centre, the rest of the commute was pretty tame, especially riding on pavements. I wonder if it's built up areas that encourage it? Luckily I've retired now so don't have to run the gauntlet except when one of the kids books a show at the Alex or Hippo! As an aside I wonder if cyclist and e scooter riders were made to show some form of ID like a motorist does whether we'd see the same level of law breaking?

Edited October 12, 2023 by Hobby
Another post made at same time.

[Nick C]

31 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Who are certainly also pedestrians and in many cases cyclists as well... Perhaps it's the same people in all three categories that cause all the issues! EDIT: To WG's post!! 🤣

 

Over 30+  years of commuting into Brum I saw very few pedestrians running red lights, I could count the numbers of motorists on one hand, but I could guarantee at least one cyclist every week. Then we had the introduction of e scooters and e bikes in the past few years which made the whole experience much worse. I would say, however, that most of the miscreants were to be found within a few miles of the city centre, the rest of the commute was pretty tame, especially riding on pavements. I wonder if it's built up areas that encourage it? Luckily I've retired now so don't have to run the gauntlet except when one of the kids books a show at the Alex or Hippo! As an aside I wonder if cyclist and e scooter riders were made to show some form of ID like a motorist does whether we'd see the same level of law breaking?

Don't get me started on e-scooters... They're an aboslute menace round here...

[Wickham Green too]

26 minutes ago, Hobby said:

... Perhaps it's the same people in all three categories that cause all the issues! ...

My pet peeve with motorists is with indicators ..... all motor vehicles have been fitted with the things since the year dot yet 50% of drivers seem not to use them and 50% of the remainder seem to flick them on half a millisecond before they yank the steering wheel round ................. and my pet peeve with motor manufacturers is fitting indicators which are difficult to see from the side of the vehicle - or difficult to see from the front where they've been put too close to side- or headlights !

 

Anyway, back to level crossings ..... hopefully not !

[Wickham Green too]

1 minute ago, Nick C said:

Don't get me started on e-scooters... They're an absolute menace round here...

Corrected for you. 😁

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

My pet peeve with motorists is with indicators ..... all motor vehicles have been fitted with the things since the year dot yet 50% of drivers seem not to use them and 50% of the remainder seem to flick them on half a millisecond before they yank the steering wheel round .

 

When I started driving, a lot of motor vehicles still had trafficators - little yellow arms 6" long that come out of the side pillar of the door (...if they're in working order) and with a (blown) light bulb inside, intended to replicate the hand signal you were supposed to give, and which was part of the driving test.  The French, whose hand-signals also tended to be more expressive than ours had a slightly different design - they had trafficators (Flèches de direction) that waved about!

 

The real reason some motorists appear to flick their signals at the last moment is that they inadvertently knock the indicator lever in the process of turning the steering wheel.

[Rugd1022]

20 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

As a cyclist and not a driver, I unfortunately agree about the behaviour of too many cyclists. 

But back to pedestrian crossings over railway lines, would pedestrians take any notice if there were "traffic" lights? Even supposedly responsible drivers who should know better don't always, as demonstrated by cases where contractors working for farmers have misused private crossings.

I am afraid that the only way people will learn is if there are some deaths. But I would not want that to happen.

Jonathan

 

A fair number don't take any notice of the trains, let alone any signs or lights! I've had a few near misses on foot crossings, mostly kids glued to their phones or ipods, and an extra blast on the horn is often as not met with a one or two fingered 'salute'.

[Michael Hodgson]

23 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

A fair number don't take any notice of the trains, let alone any signs or lights! I've had a few near misses on foot crossings, mostly kids glued to their phones or ipods, and an extra blast on the horn is often as not met with a one or two fingered 'salute'.

Harvey Smith seems to have made that gesture almost respectable.

[Reorte]

5 hours ago, Hobby said:

As an aside I wonder if cyclist and e scooter riders were made to show some form of ID like a motorist does whether we'd see the same level of law breaking?

Well considering that e-scooter riders are mostly breaking the law already (it's not as if there's anywhere in public they can be legally ridden, with a few exceptions) I'd say "yes, we probably would see just as many."

 

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with e-scooters; they seem like quite a good idea as part of trying to reduce the number of car journeys. But since the law hasn't caught up with accepting much in the way of car alternatives you mostly get lawbreakers using them, which gives the scooters a bad reputation, rather than the users (where it belongs).

 

As a general rule I'm against even more registering, monitoring, ID etc.

[Hobby]

20 minutes ago, Reorte said:

As a general rule I'm against even more registering, monitoring, ID etc.

 

I agree, but at the moment it's a free for all with e scooters, even in places where they are registered, accidents and even deaths caused by them are rising year on year, so do we just leave it be and hope for the best? Pavement riding is endemic, and that's no exaggeration so it'll get worse if something's not done.

[Reorte]

Just now, Hobby said:

 

I agree, but at the moment it's a free for all with e scooters, even in places where they are registered, accidents and even deaths caused by them are rising year on year, so do we just leave it be and hope for the best? Pavement riding is endemic, and that's no exaggeration so it'll get worse if something's not done.

 

Well deaths will rise from the zero before e-scooters were a thing.

 

The problem (beyond my aforementioned dislike) is that I don't see how that ID requirement will actually do anything. We need to make sure that we avoid any "we need to do something, this is something, therefore we must do it" type thinking, because it rarely achieves anything useful. In this case why would people already behaving illegally comply with a change in the law which says they have to have some form of registration? That'll cover the majority of them. Where they can be legally used are the accidents being caused by the people using the legally or illegally?

 

I don't see them as all that much different from (pedal) bikes in terms of basic risk. We've managed this long without requiring cyclists to register themselves, and it would be a sad day indeed if we change our minds on that.

[Wickham Green too]

24 minutes ago, Reorte said:

... We've managed this long without requiring cyclists to register themselves, and it would be a sad day indeed if we change our minds on that.

BUT - I remember taking a Cycling Proficiency Test .......... does such a thing exist nowadays ?

[Reorte]

37 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

BUT - I remember taking a Cycling Proficiency Test .......... does such a thing exist nowadays ?

Good point, so did I. They were never compulsory though, but were a good idea. No idea if they still exist.

 

After taking mine was the first time I was stopped by the police - I was cycling home and a police car pulled me over - it was the policeman who'd done the course, and he had the certificate in the car so he gave it to me there and then.

[2E Sub Shed]

4 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Good point, so did I. They were never compulsory though, but were a good idea. No idea if they still exist.

 

 

At my school - You had to had passed your cycling proficiency test to be allowed to ride a cycle to school. However you could ride it in for the training sessions. 

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, Reorte said:

Well considering that e-scooter riders are mostly breaking the law already (it's not as if there's anywhere in public they can be legally ridden, with a few exceptions) I'd say "yes, we probably would see just as many."

 

I think they are generally legal in those towns where you can rent them at ££ per minute, but only if you do rent them, whereas privately owned ones are illegal except on private property.

 

This strikes me as just another money making racket by local authorities rather than a reflection on whether or not they are a means of transport one would wish to encourage. 

 

It really needs a policy determined at national level, not a hotch potch of different authorities all doing their own thing (just like deciding what colour bin you should use for what sort of recycling).

 

[Michael Hodgson]

53 minutes ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

At my school - You had to had passed your cycling proficiency test to be allowed to ride a cycle to school. However you could ride it in for the training sessions. 

I often cycled to school along the canal towpath.  The school would have disapproved strongly had they known (especially before I passed a swimming test).  The route had the advantage that it was shorter and level, as well as being free from the hazards of other road users.  I think it was also against the canal's bye-laws.