RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 18, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2018 Houston, we have a scaling problem... Might have to re-do the mess hut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 18, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2018 No, that's not right either... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted February 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2018 Just put the mess hut right at the back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 18, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2018 Just put the mess hut right at the back... Ah, behind the cottages. Bit of a tradition there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cklammer Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 So the dog is huge and the dog house is huge, too - no big deal But where is the dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted February 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2018 So the dog is huge and the dog house is huge, too - no big deal But where is the dog? Chasing Schrödinger's cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 20, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2018 Something Damian did to the Tortoise point motors on Treneglos was to bypass the internal frog switches and attach an external microswitch. These worked faultlessly during around 40ish shows. I was reminded of this when preparing Treneglos for sale and then last week I stumbled upon an article in MRJ 252 showing how to do it. Out of pure chance I had some left over aluminium angle (not sure why) so placed an order for the rest of the nuts, bolts and switches. These arrived a day later! So here we have 1no modified Tortoise... Warning, this does invalidate the warranty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted February 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2018 I take it you've had experience of the internal switch failing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted February 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2018 rps20180218_202846.jpg No, that's not right either... Gone wrong with your 'forced perspective' ..... Something Damian did to the Tortoise point motors on Treneglos was to bypass the internal frog switches and attach an external microswitch. These worked faultlessly during around 40ish shows. I was reminded of this when preparing Treneglos for sale and then last week I stumbled upon an article in MRJ 252 showing how to do it. Out of pure chance I had some left over aluminium angle (not sure why) so placed an order for the rest of the nuts, bolts and switches. These arrived a day later! So here we have 1no modified Tortoise... rps20180220_195207.jpg rps20180220_195320.jpg Warning, this does invalidate the warranty. Chaz of Dock Green fame has done something similar I believe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 20, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2018 I take it you've had experience of the internal switch failing ? I don't remember if any actually failed on Treneglos but it certainly seems reasonably common not to rely on the internal wiper connections for switching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 20, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2018 Three down, 7 to go... Doesn't take that long once you've done the first one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) It’s certainly robust, but I honestly doubt it’s necessary. Admittedly, I’ve never built or maintained an exhibition layout, so the level of work my Tortoises have had to endure is clearly rather less, but the Greater Windowledge existed from around 1998 or 9, until two years back, and they are now giving sterling service on Porth Dinllaen. I’d not bother. The chances of having to fix one are slim, and the time necessary to do so, if it is necessary, will probably be less than the time you’re investing now. Build models, it’s more fun! (And the photos are better) (I’ll add two caveats*. Firstly, be careful if you use stiffer wire, that the motor has travelled the full stroke, and secondly, make sure you do not have an electrical load on the frog when you change the point - this shouldn’t happen, but anyway...) (I think a caveat is like a guinea pig, only smaller) Best Simon Edited February 20, 2018 by Simond 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted February 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2018 (I think a caveat is like a guinea pig, only smaller) More like a Gerbil actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 20, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2018 It’s certainly robust, but I honestly doubt it’s necessary. Admittedly, I’ve never built or maintained an exhibition layout, so the level of work my Tortoises have had to endure is clearly rather less, but the Greater Windowledge existed from around 1998 or 9, until two years back, and they are now giving sterling service on Porth Dinllaen. I’d not bother. The chances of having to fix one are slim, and the time necessary to do so, if it is necessary, will probably be less than the time you’re investing now. Build models, it’s more fun! (And the photos are better) (I’ll add two caveats*. Firstly, be careful if you use stiffer wire, that the motor has travelled the full stroke, and secondly, make sure you do not have an electrical load on the frog when you change the point - this shouldn’t happen, but anyway...) (I think a caveat is like a guinea pig, only smaller) Best Simon My theory is that belt and braces now will mean I won't have to touch or work on the elements of layout building I don't enjoy at a later stage. I'm going for fit and forget on the electrical and mechanical bits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Gone wrong with your 'forced perspective' ..... Chaz of Dock Green fame has done something similar I believe I think Chaz used relays to do the switching. I wonder whether the original ones were more reliable. I had no trouble with those on Sparrow's Wharf bought about 97 and never heard of others having problems either. It has only been in more recent times that I have heard of problems. Like Simon I do think ensuring quite a lot of travel makes sense. I used a stiffer operating wire for 0 gauge but was not so stiff that it didn't bend. That way I could get good travel of the operating arm and enough tension to hold the blades over. That said if Chris is happy to add microswitches it his choice. How easy is it to swap microswitches? I am planning to experiment with servos with the fancy electrics removed using the bendy operating arm and hoping the gearing can maintain sufficient tension. It will need a microswitch added though. The switch will be a biased one so the power will not be left on. Don Edited February 20, 2018 by Donw 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium wagonbasher Posted February 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 Something Damian did to the Tortoise point motors on Treneglos was to bypass the internal frog switches and attach an external microswitch. These worked faultlessly during around 40ish shows. I was reminded of this when preparing Treneglos for sale and then last week I stumbled upon an article in MRJ 252 showing how to do it. Out of pure chance I had some left over aluminium angle (not sure why) so placed an order for the rest of the nuts, bolts and switches. These arrived a day later! So here we have 1no modified Tortoise... rps20180220_195207.jpg rps20180220_195320.jpg Warning, this does invalidate the warranty. presumably you have had to open the thing up to get those bolts in place? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 21, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 I think Chaz used relays to do the switching. I wonder whether the original ones were more reliable. I had no trouble with those on Sparrow's Wharf bought about 97 and never heard of others having problems either. It has only been in more recent times that I have heard of problems. Like Simon I do think ensuring quite a lot of travel makes sense. I used a stiffer operating wire for 0 gauge but was not so stiff that it didn't bend. That way I could get good travel of the operating arm and enough tension to hold the blades over. That said if Chris is happy to add microswitches it his choice. How easy is it to swap microswitches? I am planning to experiment with servos with the fancy electrics removed using the bendy operating arm and hoping the gearing can maintain sufficient tension. It will need a microswitch added though. The switch will be a biased one so the power will not be left on. Don Morning Don, I've a fair mixture of Tortoise point motors. Two I got about 15yrs ago, 4 I acquired 2nd hand from an RMwebber and 6 which are brand new which I imported direct from USA with the help of another RMwebber. I've heard conflicting reports as to whether the new or old ones are more reliable. Having opened few of these up now I can see that the internal switching relies on a series of delicate wipers running across internal contact tracks. From examining these parts it's clear that there is some variation in how well aligned the wipers are with the tracks. I can definitely see how an intermittent fault could develop if the wipers were out of line or the tracks were dirty. The potential is supported by the text in the MRJ article. As I said, I'm going for belt and braces in the underboard goings on and therefore was happy to remove a potential future source of annoying faults at this stage. I could be wasting my time as Simon thinks and the internal switching could be fine on the Tortoises over the life of the layout. As it is, the addition of the external microswitch is fairly straightforward to do and I'm happy to do them as a hospital job when I have a half hour spare. I might think differently if I had a 100 rather than 10 to do though! To answer your question, the external microswitch would be easy to replace. Two bolts and three wires. In practice though I'd just drop out the entire Tortoise unit and replace with a spare and then sort the fault out on the workbench. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 21, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 presumably you have had to open the thing up to get those bolts in place? Andy Yes, you have to open the unit to get the bolts in place. The position of the bolts is reasonably critical too to avoid the internal circuit board. I'll take a photo or two tonight. Even if I wasn't going to fit the external microswitches I'd still open up the unit to check / correct the alignment of the internal wipers on the tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 21, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 Simon, you stated two caveats: (I’ll add two caveats*. Firstly, be careful if you use stiffer wire, that the motor has travelled the full stroke, and secondly, make sure you do not have an electrical load on the frog when you change the point - this shouldn’t happen, but anyway...) I get the first but don't follow the second. By load on the frog do you mean a loco with motor running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 21, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 I take it you've had experience of the internal switch failing ?Interesting that a quick search this morning has a fair few results on the internal switching reliability... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/46870-tortoise-problem-internal-switching/ https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=360 As ever with these things though, the various threads seem to quickly turn into a spat between the various pro and con factions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 As ever with these things though, the various threads seem to quickly turn into a spat between the various pro and con factions... What a stupid opinion! This thread is worryingly like a relationship at times. One minute everything is pretty cosy, pleasant to look at etc then suddenly, from no where, I’m in all sorts of trouble, completely out of my depth and hoping If I close my eyes it will all go away. I’m still getting used to the idea I need to make points, I’m not ready to worry about loading frogs when I rebuild point motors yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted February 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2018 What a stupid opinion! This thread is worryingly like a relationship at times. One minute everything is pretty cosy, pleasant to look at etc then suddenly, from no where, I’m in all sorts of trouble, completely out of my depth and hoping If I close my eyes it will all go away. I’m still getting used to the idea I need to make points, I’m not ready to worry about loading frogs when I rebuild point motors yet! I think it is really inappropriate for you to describe someone else's opinion as stupid, worse still on the person's own layout thread. You may not agree with it, but you don't have the right to call it stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) I think it is really inappropriate for you to describe someone else's opinion as stupid, worse still on the person's own layout thread. You may not agree with it, but you don't have the right to call it stupid It was a joke - referring to the way the spats mentioned develop - but total apologies to anyone if that wasn’t clear! Edited February 21, 2018 by Hal Nail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 21, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 It was a joke - referring to the way the spats mentioned develop - but total apologies to anyone if that wasn’t clear! Must admit I wasn't sure what you meant either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 Must admit I wasn't sure what you meant either. Model railway satire is a minefield! Anyway I shall go back to just looking at the pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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