RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 14, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2009 Photos of the 4mm model are shown in the new 4mm scale catalogue. And first thoughts: Oh dear, they have copied the bogies attached to a pivoting section of the body (in the same way as the N gauge model). And it looks awful! not to mention completely unnecessary in 4mm scale (there is a HO model of the same wagon which despite being smaller has proper bogies) Hopefully they will change it before the production version, Certainly if it looks like that I will be cancelling my order for them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted October 14, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2009 Photos of the 4mm model are shown in the new 4mm scale catalogue. And first thoughts: Oh dear, they have copied the bogies attached to a pivoting section of the body (in the same way as the N gauge model). And it looks awful! not to mention completely unnecessary in 4mm scale (there is a HO model of the same wagon which despite being smaller has proper bogies) Hopefully they will change it before the production version, Certainly if it looks like that I will be cancelling my order for them! Hi Have you emailed Dapol and asked them? I found them very approachable when I had queries about the Grain Hopper they did for N. Due to myself and various other people making suggestions we got a much improved (including being the right length) model. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
(The) Youth Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Sorry but its true Dear Sir, Many thanks for the e-mail. Unfortunately, OO modellers , like N gauge modellers prefer to use non scale curves on their track, and we need to take this into account to produce a viable (sales wise) model that will work on most track radius. As the Megafrets are limited in radius in real life there is no way we can emulate this due to customer constraints. Therefore the most elegant solution is to fix the bogie and side of the chassis in a similar manner to the N gauge version, although in OO we can tighten the tolerances up a lot. Kindest regards Dave Dapol Ltd I may get one and try and do something with them:icon_thumbsdown2: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingleborough Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Oh dear! How unimaginative and 'agricultural' a solution in 4mm scale!! If they can't even achieve the clearance for OO gauge, what about us P4 and EM chaps? An elegant solution would be swivelling sections of the frame that could either be attached to the bogies (for tight curves) or re-attached to the main frame for the rest of us. I wonder how many people buy accurate scale models and then run them on 15" radius curves? Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Oh dear! How unimaginative and 'agricultural' a solution in 4mm scale!! If they can't even achieve the clearance for OO gauge, what about us P4 and EM chaps? An elegant solution would be swivelling sections of the frame that could either be attached to the bogies (for tight curves) or re-attached to the main frame for the rest of us. I wonder how many people buy accurate scale models and then run them on 15" radius curves? Jon HI All The two things i noticed that look wrong to me are the two spigots in the middle are in the wrong position "just like the N gauge one" and there's no spark gards either above the wheels. Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60maniac Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 the pocket wagons look good might have to get a few of them i agree the megafrets look a bit stupid will also have a few of them with some spine wagons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 15, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2009 Strange that it can be done in HO but Dapol cant manage it in a larger scale...... Surely the best comprise would be to have the bogie sideframes spaced for HO and get round it that way. At least then for those of us using P4 its just a case of rebuilding the bogies to the full width. I may well pick some of these up and see if I can fix it if I find them cheap 2nd hand, but for something so comprised the retail price is an absolute ripoff. I bet the loss of sales as a result of the compromise is much less than the amount of extra sales to trainset types (who chances are havent heard of Dapol anyway....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I'm not clear what the real issue here is. Is it the clearance between the outside top face of the bogie springs and the body skirts? Are these the prototypes?: http://ukrailrolling...t/c1072637.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 15, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2009 Its the gap between the green part and the rest of the body. the upper half of the green part is part of the body on the prototype Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Oh dear. I was looking forward to getting a pair of these to display a couple of suitably rusted containers. They would go very well with the spine wagons that I won in the raffle at the members day. From the picture it looks to be a rather nasty job to rectify the problem. I presume that it means seperating the body part with all the minute lettering from the bogie side frames and fixing it to the body. Funny how the continental firms can solve these issues without loss of sales. Dapol have probably made the right decision from a commercial view point. It just goes to show how wide the gulf is between the UK and the mainland. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 15, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2009 Oh dear. I was looking forward to getting a pair of these to display a couple of suitably rusted containers. They would go very well with the spine wagons that I won in the raffle at the members day. From the picture it looks to be a rather nasty job to rectify the problem. I presume that it means seperating the body part with all the minute lettering from the bogie side frames and fixing it to the body. Funny how the continental firms can solve these issues without loss of sales. Dapol have probably made the right decision from a commercial view point. It just goes to show how wide the gulf is between the UK and the mainland. Bernard Would also need completely new bogies as you would be missing a fair proportion of the detail, no doubt it would also want the insides thinning out to accept real bogies, and a slither of plasticard to fill the gap. Here's hoping that someone comes up with a megafret as a brass kit........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Its the gap between the green part and the rest of the body. the upper half of the green part is part of the body on the prototype Since I don't know what the 'the green part' is, that's as clear as mud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Since I don't know what the 'the green part' is, that's as clear as mud. They're shown on the CAD drawing in the catalogue: http://www.ness-st.co.uk/Dapol/Dapol%20Catalogue%202010%20OO%20Gauge%20Section.pdf Might this help as a translation? What it looks like they've done is to design the shrouds (or whatever you want to call them), which are part of the frame of the prototype, as part of the bogies, in a style reminisent of the Hornby Western or class 90. A bit of a pain if you were interesed in converting it to a more prototypical version as the bogies would require surgery to work, never mind appearing correct. Not very 2009. Translation ends. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Thanks Adam. I had seen that pdf, but the 'green bits' still don't seem to be particularly green to me. No matter, I now understand the issue. I doubt whether there would have been a significant radius problem if Dapol had put the shrouds on the body frame as they should have done, but it's not possible to really judge without a proper cross-section. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 No problem, I agree, it isn't as obvious as all that from the relatively low res drawing. As a predominately steam era modeller who happens to like container trains (in EM) it equates to a no sale, since it's too much faff to correct for the nature of the model. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Bernard Lamb Funny how the continental firms can solve these issues without loss of sales. Dapol have probably made the right decision from a commercial view point. It just goes to show how wide the gulf is between the UK and the mainland. Bernard No, it just goes to show Dapol have cocked it up. I would say that we are probably more sensitive to these things than the Continent - coaches with severe compromises in length have not been acceptable hre for years (compare the Piko Corails where not only are they short but the proportions of all the windows are wrong) I suspect that the trainset market won't even get to hear about these . Ah well , it was only the pocket wagon and the FEAs that I was interested in.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emdpowerrules Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Disappointing! If they had to fix something in the wrong place I would rather have inside bearing axles with cosmetic bogie frames attached to the sides. Plan was for at least 14 pairs, if they come out as they look in the drawings that will be changed to 0. Be interesting to see how C-Rail manage with the FLA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Walker Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Be interesting to see how C-Rail manage with the FLA. What's this about? Had a look on the C-Rail website but there's nothing about FLA's on there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 23, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2009 Be interesting to see how C-Rail manage with the FLA. What's this about? Had a look on the C-Rail website but there's nothing about FLA's on there. Not sure if its been officially announced..... There is information about it on the DEMU forum, looks rather good from the CAD (and no stupid compromises like the Megafret despite much tighter tolerances....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted October 23, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2009 Disappointing! If they had to fix something in the wrong place I would rather have inside bearing axles with cosmetic bogie frames attached to the sides. Plan was for at least 14 pairs, if they come out as they look in the drawings that will be changed to 0. Be interesting to see how C-Rail manage with the FLA. Hi all, This was on the previous version of RMWeb. I've spoken with Arran and will try to get the old thread pulled over to the new Forum The FLA is actually to be produced by a new company - Real Track Models Hopefully will have the old thread on here ASAP Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I thought this was already out? I knew *a* company produced or was going to produce this wagon, as im in need of a pair or two NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted October 25, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 25, 2009 While it would be nice to have the shroud as part of the body surely it is easier to modify this than start with a brass kit! To be fair the continental megafret models are very expensive, ??77 currently at MGsharp compared to the FEA's which would be my guess for Dapols price point. CM review http://www.mgsharp.com/images/Reviews/CM_0903_megafret.jpg The shrouds could have been separate plastic parts which would increase cost admittedly but it isn't exactly a wagon for those starting out in the hobby. The FEA's are delicate but superb. This is my idea based on the moving skirts fitted to some continental rolling stock. These allow the either end of the bogie to push out the skirt if the curve is that tight but it returns to it's proper place the rest of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted October 27, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2009 Well rather than just speculate I emailed Dave and he quickly came back with some info. The megafret has been in the metal cutting shops now for about 6 weeks, and would normally be cast in stone (excuse the pun as it will be in Die cast metal to keep the weight). However we are looking at various 'fixes' for the bogie swing, but this is way more problemaic than you might imagine. Firstly there is our penchant for tight curves over here and how to get around that without having moving 'wheel arches' and this is extremely difficult as it has to not only be able to go round the more lax radius curves but alos 'little jonny's' layout on the carpet on Christmas morning. I have to say that i lean to the latter as it will be where we get our "bread and Butter" sales, but i wont let it rest until i have looked at all the cost effective alternatives that might work. So they are listening but they are having to balance that with the majority who have tighter curves on their layouts. Personally after looking at the CAD image I don't think it will be that hard to adapt the bogie and glue in plastic skirts to the frame, hide any paint discrepancy with weathering, for use on bigger radius corners. If you look at the number of layouts on here that use tight corners and run lots of rtr stock I can see Daves point. Rather than asking for a brass kit why not just make an etch for the skirts and a new bogie casting it is going to be far cheaper and quicker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Rather than asking for a brass kit why not just make an etch for the skirts and a new bogie casting it is going to be far cheaper and quicker. I suspect you're right - even if fixing the skirts doesn't do the trick, the worst case scenario would be something like getting a couple of skirt castings done in resin to replace the movable ones...if you don't have nasty curves you might not even need to swap bogies out. Wait & see I think is the first thing to do... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zabdiel Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I've spoken with Arran and will try to get the old thread pulled over to the new Forum Here's a link to the new thread. Should be able to get some nice varied Freightliner Intermodal trains Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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