A P4 GNR Stirling Single and the future rebuild of 'Swaveney' (M&GNJRly)

[Re6/6]

I came across this picture of a scratchbuilt P4 GNR Sterling Single built (I'm fairly certain) by Nigel Hunt, amongst some odds and ends that we (DRAG) saved when his railway room was cleared out. He even manufactured his own wheels on his lathe and milling machine.

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by Re6/6

[Horsetan]

Rare sight in P4.

[ian@stenochs]

Rare sight in P4.

 

Hi,

 

In the distant past I remember at the York Easter show a P4 layout with an 8' single working on it.  It was fully painted in GNR livery and worked well. The show was then in the De Grey Rooms, so that dates it, and was very cramped and it was difficult to see layouts properly.

 

Happy modelling,

 

Ian

[John B]

Hi,

 

In the distant past I remember at the York Easter show a P4 layout with an 8' single working on it.  It was fully painted in GNR livery and worked well. The show was then in the De Grey Rooms, so that dates it, and was very cramped and it was difficult to see layouts properly.

 

Happy modelling,

 

Ian

 

That would have been Nigel Hunt's Swaveney branch, now in the care of DRAG (I believe). I saw the layout at York a couple of times in the 70s - basic scenically, but spectacular P4 GNR stock.

[jwealleans]

A thing of beauty in any gauge.

[Blue Max]

 

Stelfox used to manufacture an etched nickel silver kit for the GNR Stirling Single many years ago, I have only ever seen one for sale and that was on Ebay so went for silly money, many hundreds of pounds if I recall correctly.

 

Another one of those loco's I desperately wish to add to the collection but do not expect to ever come across another example. Surely a model that would be a reasonably good seller for one of the modern etch kit manufacturers, with demand even from those not of a GNR persuasion with its historical importance as a landmark loco and the fact that there is one preserved which always seems to help the sales volumes.

 

I live in hope!!

 

SteveT

[Re6/6]

That would have been Nigel Hunt's Swaveney branch, now in the care of DRAG (I believe). I saw the layout at York a couple of times in the 70s - basic scenically, but spectacular P4 GNR stock.

Indeed it is John. There are plans!

 

It was built like the proverbial brick ********* and heavy with it! The scenery and the buildings have just about disintegrated, but the big plus is that all the trackwork is ply and rivet and the lovely somersault signals are still present. 

 

The suggested plan, for sometime in the future and subject to confirmation of the membership, is to remove and refit the trackwork onto a more suitably modern 'undercarriage', but keeping the look and essence of the original.

 

I stand to be corrected (10800 please!) but I think that Swaveney is the only remaining layout from the beginning period of P4. The others were Bembridge, Heckmondwyke and a couple of others that I can't remember.

 

There is another picture of the 'Single' somewhere, so watch this space!

[10800]

I think you're right John, along with Pendlebury and one or two others.  Ian's recollection is correct, York 1976 I believe it was and I think we have the 'badge' issued at the time somewhere with the layout.  Co-builder of Swaveney Andy Rush posts on here occasionally.  Most if not all of Nigel's GN and GE locos are extant and in safe hands.

 

Here's a couple of snaps of Swaveney in 2007 when it resided inside Nigel's big P4 roundy-roundy at his home.

 

 

 

And some of his locos having a stretch on the circuit itself, including possibly the very same GN Single

 

 

 

 

 

[John B]

[Digression]

 

Not sure if it was the "Original" MRC Bembridge (there have been a few models of it, including by Paul Mays aka Bike2Steam of this parish), but I recall seeing a model of Bembridge looking somewhat forlorn on display in the "Museum" at the IOWSR in Havenstreet back in the 90s. It wasn't OO gauge, so it could have been. Actually, on display does it too much credit. It was just sitting there...

 

[/Digression]

 

Lovely pictures, Rod. I remember it at York in 1977 (my first visit, as a 10 year old) and again either in 78 or 79. Superb signals, and stock, glad it's still extant and that there are plans afoot..

[Portchullin Tatty]

 

I stand to be corrected (10800 please!) but I think that Swaveney is the only remaining layout from the beginning period of P4. The others were Bembridge, Heckmondwyke and a couple of others that I can't remember.

 

 

 

I believe that Ferring and Dubbieside both count as layouts from the beginning of P4.  Michael Ball was certainly telling me that Ferring was at the very first Protofour Society exhibition.

[Horsetan]

....Swaveney is the only remaining layout from the beginning period of P4. The others were Bembridge, Heckmondwyke and a couple of others that I can't remember.

 

I thought Heckmondwyke went to the NRM, which then neglected it?

[Re6/6]

I thought Heckmondwyke went to the NRM, which then neglected it?

That certainly happened as far as I know. I suspect that is long gone into landfill by now.

 

It would be useful, I think, to compile a definitive listing of the early layouts and what became of them. Some of us at DRAG are keen to resurrect this rather nice piece of early 4mm finescale modelling.

[10800]

I believe that Ferring and Dubbieside both count as layouts from the beginning of P4.  Michael Ball was certainly telling me that Ferring was at the very first Protofour Society exhibition.

 

Thanks Mark, I hadn't realised they went back quite that far.  Both are still very alive, in fact Dubbieside will be at Scaleforum in September.  I'll have a chat with Allan Goodwillie about its history (there's an hour gone!  ) and it is likely Michael Ball will be there as well.

 

It would be useful, I think, to compile a definitive listing of the early layouts and what became of them. Some of us at DRAG are keen to resurrect this rather nice piece of early 4mm finescale modelling.

 

That would be me then

 

The archive focusses on what was recorded in early Protofour and Scalefour magazines and the well-documented published articles on Heckmondwyke, Pendlebury etc.  What we are missing is appearances at other shows which could be difficult to research from this distance.  When I've got a moment ...

[Rail-Online]

Heckmondwyke did indeed go to the NRM who tried to automate its operation which basically failed and it became a large dusty static exhibit. The space was thought more useful to house a large 0 Gauge working layout and it was returned to the North London Group who took the decision to scrap it as the baseboards were warped, the trackwork lifted (steel rivets) and the scenery pretty worn. The buildings survive and are in good condition (a credit to John Hayes who built them) and are in safe storage. They are accurate models of Whitwell MR in north Derbyshire.

 

Tony

[bill4brickwork]

 hi all sorry to but in ,many years ago millholme models produced an excellent white metal kit of the single wheeler.i believe it had their etched brass tender drive unit supplied in the kit,one to look out for.  

[Blue Max]

Stephenson Carriages are slowly re introducing the old Millholme Models range of whitemetal kits, not sure if they have done the Stirling Single yet or even if this is one they intend to resurrect.

 

I do have one of the early examples of this kit produced when the moulds were quite new and without much wear, I have to say that it is far from being an 'excellent whitemetal kit' and it would take a very good model-maker a lot of time and effort to even produce even a half decent loco from this kit. This is in no way meant as a criticism but a reflection of the manufacturing standards of whitemetal kits at the time, this kit must be 30 years old and is of a similar quality to many whitemetal kit manufacturers of that period. 

 

But I guess we should be grateful for what we have got.

[ian@stenochs]

 

 

The archive focusses on what was recorded in early Protofour and Scalefour magazines and the well-documented published articles on Heckmondwyke, Pendlebury etc.  What we are missing is appearances at other shows which could be difficult to research from this distance.  When I've got a moment ...

 

 

That's interesting and something worthwhile.  Lets not forget that there were lots of other modellers working away in P4 who did not advertise themselves in the model press.

The late Mike Gilgannon had an extensive loft layout which was was much more impressive than Heckmondwike, and the other layouts on the early exhibition circuit. The full story of that layout has yet to be told. My own modest exhibition layouts were exhibited in Glasgow and Edinburgh in the mid 70's. Carsphairn was described in an early edition of Precision and I still have most of my own rolling stock built for it.  

 

Happy modelling,

 

Ian.

[10800]

Carsphairn was described in an early edition of Precision and I still have most of my own rolling stock built for it.  

 

 

 

Prototype #17 in fact - I'll dig it out tomorrow and have a look!

[Re6/6]

As promised, the other picture:

 

 

Also a few snaps of the remaining Swaveney buildings which were dug out from the bowels of the garage.

 

They are all in a derelict condition, and will require extensive repair and updating, all needing new roofs. I think that due to their 'historical' value that they do deserve repairing and perhaps fitting some new etched window frames.

 

They do capture the essence of  GN &GE joint buildings. Somebody in DRAG with buildings experience will probably be co-opted into the task!

 

The signal box is particularly nice with a full interior and signalman. It even has box diagram to hang up.

 

 

 

 

Note that the signalman doesn't know his own strength!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And finally one of the lovely signals up in the roof of the garage.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Re6/6

[Re6/6]

The goods yard crane.

 

 

[Neil]

Like John B I remember Swaveney's appearances at the York Show; it's amazing to think that a layout from my teens still has a viable future ahead of it. I've an idea that Ian Futers P4 circular border counties layouts were contemporaries of Swaveney appearing at the York Show at about the same time. 

[Re6/6]

Like John B I remember Swaveney's appearances at the York Show; it's amazing to think that a layout from my teens still has a viable future ahead of it. I've an idea that Ian Futers P4 circular border counties layouts were contemporaries of Swaveney appearing at the York Show at about the same time. 

 

Found the plaque in the bottom of the box

 

Would look good on any resurrected layout with an unusual gap between plaques of around 35 years+!

 

[micknich2003]

Don't forget, there was also the Kitmaster 8ft Single. I still have one, and intend at sometime to "Scale it Up" and motorize it.  Mick.

[ScottW]

That's interesting and something worthwhile.  Lets not forget that there were lots of other modellers working away in P4 who did not advertise themselves in the model press.

The late Mike Gilgannon had an extensive loft layout which was was much more impressive than Heckmondwike, and the other layouts on the early exhibition circuit. The full story of that layout has yet to be told. My own modest exhibition layouts were exhibited in Glasgow and Edinburgh in the mid 70's. Carsphairn was described in an early edition of Precision and I still have most of my own rolling stock built for it.  

 

Happy modelling,

 

Ian.

 

Mike Gilgannon's layout is one that I would certainly like to read about, not to mention the lovely models he made. Mike was a true craftsman and certainly one of the unsung hero's of our hobby.

 

Scott

[Neil]

Found the plaque in the bottom of the box

 

Would look good on any resurrected layout with an unusual gap between plaques of around 35 years+!

 

 

 

You're not the only one to turn up some memorabilia of the time John.

 

 

 

I rather think that it belongs with the layout, so I'll send be popping it in the post tomorrow c/o CK.