For those interested in old cars.

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, alastairq said:

 Made in India, yet, of today's new motors, how many makes are actually made in the sub continent now?

 

Nowt wrong with a Chittyrover...except perhaps, the Rover badge?  

Trouble is, folk no longer recognise a good motor when they see one..Too much brain-washing from VAG, perhaps?  :)  :)

Fewer than 200 CityRovers remain active (taxed) in the UK, from total UK sales of 8,666, not many for a model wholly produced this century.

 

Having driven one, I'm not surprised, they couldn't even make the seatbelts work properly. A pal retired from the trade reckons most met their demise through it costing too much to get them through the MoT when about 6 years old.

 

John

 

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[boxbrownie]

We used to test competitor vehicles for obvious reasons, one of the tests we did on ours and occasionally competitors were wade testing, just simple 25mm/50mm/100mm etc etc at various speeds, we did test a small Maruti once, only once…..it waded fine at lower levels but once above floorpan level the water came in so fast it was too heavy to climb the ramp out of the wade pit 😄 there were so many “drain holes*” in the floorpan the water literally came in like a colander.

 

This was about the mid to late eighties I recall, they really were terribly built and engineered vehicles, thankfully legislation and progressing standards has improved them no end.

 

But it was funny.

 

*this includes the welded seams!

Edited July 30, 2022 by boxbrownie

[boxbrownie]

12 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

My car was made in India and it is far better built than some other vehicles from nearer to home.

What was it Phil?

[alastairq]

55 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

We used to test competitor vehicles for obvious reasons, one of the tests we did on ours and occasionally competitors were wade testing, just simple 25mm/50mm/100mm etc etc at various speeds, we did test a small Maruti once, only once…..it waded fine at lower levels but once above floorpan level the water came in so fast it was too heavy to climb the ramp out of the wade pit 😄 there were so many “drain holes*” in the floorpan the water literally came in like a colander.

 

This was about the mid to late eighties I recall, they really were terribly built and engineered vehicles, thankfully legislation and progressing standards has improved them no end.

 

But it was funny.

 

*this includes the welded seams!

 

Pre-Vwobbly skodas started out fine, but gradually got worse in terms of welding....their seams were barely tacked together [obviously not at 'strong' points!] covered up with a peculier spongy-type sealer which could stick to anything when applied... a s@d to get off in order to fix corrosion , or simply to increase the numbers of tacks.

 

Cars currently made in India?' LAnd Rover products? Suzukis? DAcia Dusters? loads of them....

[boxbrownie]

28 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 

Pre-Vwobbly skodas started out fine, but gradually got worse in terms of welding....their seams were barely tacked together [obviously not at 'strong' points!] covered up with a peculier spongy-type sealer which could stick to anything when applied... a s@d to get off in order to fix corrosion , or simply to increase the numbers of tacks.

 

Cars currently made in India?' LAnd Rover products? Suzukis? DAcia Dusters? loads of them....

Skoda were well built (well at least strongly built) early on when first imported (like Lada as well) but the company got into serious financial problems and the lines just got worse and worse with penny pinching or should that be Koruna?

 

Yes plenty of vehicles built in India I just wondered what in particular Phil’s was.

[alastairq]

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Skoda were well built (well at least strongly built) early on when first imported

 

Indeed they were!   I had trialled rear engined skodas for many years.....first with what started out as an A reg Estelle 120L... finally with a J reg Rapid [the last year of production, pretty much]  The Estelle was so 'strong'[AKA stiff] that it was noted amongst other competitors that when stationary with diagonally opposite wheels on the ground, only, [the other two well off the ground] all 4 doors could be opened & shut without drama.

 

The late production Rapid 136 demonstrated to me how much production quality had 'slipped' in the intervening years! especially when it came to my welding the thing up more solidly.  [Removing the seam sealer from around the O/S inside where the wheel arch met the floor pan, revealed a paucity of spot welds [tacks, reall] enough for that to fail an MoT!  Normally all hidden beneath thick seam sealer.  Result was, I had to 'seam' weld the thing...which I found a bit nauseating as the factor never did that [except to the rally cars].

 

The wonderful thing about the rear engined [and the Favorit, to a lesser extent] was that all the much later stuff, from the likes of the Felicia 136, Fabia 136, etc, could be fitted [more or less] to the older Rapid & Estelle 136s...

As an example, Skoda themselves, in the 1980's, got Blydenstein to gas flow and improve the existing 136 cylinder head for more ooompph for the rally cars which used the 136 motor. [1300cc, but all alloy, unlike the 130 motor which was similar to the 120, but 1300cc and with an iron head and siamesed inlet ports..the 136 was an 8 port head.]

The later Favorits, and even later the Felicia 136 [and the Fabia 136] had their cylinder heads copied from the Blydenstein items...so one got a gas flowed cyl head without the specialist tuners price tag.  Plus, access to electronic ignition, etc.  All available from the nearest good scrappies.

My Rapid 136 sported  a Bogg Bros manifold and Honda Fireblade carb set...

The 130 [ex-rally spare engine] that the Estelle sported had a 40 DCOE weber on a swan-neck manifold.

 

Fuel consumption was never the strong point of any of my trials cars...

 

However, the real beauty of the early rear engined Skodas [Estelle, etc] was that they were designed to be services and 'fixed' on the street.

Everything [bar almost nothing!] was designed and manufactured to be able to be 'taken apart', the broken or dirty individual component fixed, and re-assembled again.

Everything....very little if anything was riveted, or 'turned over in a press'...Everything could be 'mended'.....unlike most other makes where replacement was often the only solution.

 

I miss those Skodas....

[PhilJ W]

7 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

What was it Phil?

Its a Hyundai I10, I bought it brand new just over fourteen years ago. Build quality is very good, no rattles or poor fitting panels. Only niggle and this applied to my previous car is that the carpets appear to be sprayed on and are not very durable especially under the drivers feet (where wear is a factor, operating the pedals). I have rubber mats laid down to protect the carpets. In those fourteen years it has been ultra reliable with only the usual consumables such as tyres being replaced.

[spamcan61]

21 hours ago, alastairq said:

 Made in India, yet, of today's new motors, how many makes are actually made in the sub continent now?

 

Nowt wrong with a Chittyrover...except perhaps, the Rover badge?  

Trouble is, folk no longer recognise a good motor when they see one..Too much brain-washing from VAG, perhaps?  :)  :)

Yes the badge really, sticking a 'premium' badge on a really cheaply made city car. 

Personally I don't buy into the VAG marketing, driving as I do an old Derby built Avensis and an older Hyundai Coupe built in South Korea (I think)

[doilum]

Back on the day we had a 120 as a winter car. Great fun in the snow and I loved the absolute no frills interior ,.a bit like an early beetle. I also competed against them as the Dutton, like most kit cars, was placed into group 7 got production car trials.

 

[peanuts]

10 hours ago, doilum said:

Back on the day we had a 120 as a winter car. Great fun in the snow and I loved the absolute no frills interior ,.a bit like an early beetle. I also competed against them as the Dutton, like most kit cars, was placed into group 7 got production car trials.

 

Did you do they old trick of sticking a heavy weight up front to get the nose down a bit .had a nice footlong lump of flat bottom rail bolted to the front floor of the boot worked at treat on our 120 and 136 rapide .still got it now makes a great anvil 

[doilum]

3 hours ago, peanuts said:

Did you do they old trick of sticking a heavy weight up front to get the nose down a bit .had a nice footlong lump of flat bottom rail bolted to the front floor of the boot worked at treat on our 120 and 136 rapide .still got it now makes a great anvil 

First time out in the snow I had plenty of traction but no steering. Making a 90 degree turn required hefty use of the handbrake. A sack of sand provided a better solution.

When trialling to he Dutton had about 20 kg of scrap iron that bolted onto the boot.

[alastairq]

The rally folk usually moved the fuel tank up front. I did this as well, on both my Skodas....for no other reason than the original 'saddle-bags' type tank wasn't easy to protect , at the rear...and got in the way when it came to dropping the transaxle easily. [A prerequisite of any car used for both competition purposes and as a weekday daily driver, was the ease of access to essential components.]

With the fuel tank up front, that cured any tendencies to understeer. [ 1960's rear engined Skodas had the fuel tank up front anyway, IIRC?]

 

Although possibly seen as counter-productive for a trials car, where weight over the driven wheels was essential, I found no real disadvantage. MAybe the observed sections were so steep it wouldn't have mattered anyway?

 

The Rapid was a freebie....[take it away free of charge..it had ticket still to run... or the fella would scrap it?] It seemed trite not to give it a new lease of life.

The front of the bodyshell seemed to have been involved in a fire at some point, judging by the way the metal rusted  away beneath the paint?  Steel that has seen fire seems to rust so much more quickly, regardless of what protective layers ar applied.

I had a couple of other freebie Skodas in my time as well....a 136 Rapid that everybody screamed should be 'saved' [in the owner's ''club'']... but about which nobody was prepared to do anything other than complain about how nobody was doing anything about it...?

The above, I find, is a commonplace attitude amongst enthusiasts and owners' groups or clubs....No-one is actually prepared to do something about these situations!

 

The Rapid was in really good nick, aside from being in a semi-dismantled state.  Owned by an ex-Skoda mechanic [pre-VAG acquisition..once VAG got their feet under the table, the old skoda dealers were given a choice...upgrade their business, or boogah off...Many just boogahed off!]  The owner simply raided the spares stores of every item he knew would become scarce, or was needed.....a boot full of brand spankers [packaged] rubber items, for example..trim pieces, spares for all the running gear, etc.

I had delivered a LHD VW beetle [in a state] to a trialling colleague, who wanted the chassis [number, it was pre-'72!]...which was also a freebie....[abandoned on an MoD car park by a soldier, who had brought it back from Germany, tarted up but a state underneath the paint]....I had a trailer, and a Volvo 740 to tow it with...The skoda was more or less 'on my way back home', so I called by [pre-arranged] and collected it..the owner was very pleased, yet extremely puzzled by the lack of action from the owners groups..where it had been advertised[free to first taker] for nearly a year.  The owner had a mk2 jag needing the space on hos driveway. I took it home, not knowing really what I wanted to do with it..caused much marital strife, I can tell you..not expected to simply swap one 'wreck' for another.  So I became its custodian. eventually i sold it to another enthusiast, who did I know not what  with it...By that time it had sat in a field for a few years.....The green 120L Estelle was another freebie, gien to me to clear a garage space....this had been tadge-welded here & there but was a clean motor overall....Until  a box of aerosol glue left inside exploded on a hot summer's day.  Talk about snott everywhere!

 

I don't have any Skodas now....other fish to fry, automotively speaking.

 

[Kickstart]

On 29/07/2022 at 21:36, alastairq said:

 Made in India, yet, of today's new motors, how many makes are actually made in the sub continent now?

 

Nowt wrong with a Chittyrover...except perhaps, the Rover badge?  

Trouble is, folk no longer recognise a good motor when they see one..Too much brain-washing from VAG, perhaps?  :)  :)

 

Didn't the City Rover mk2 have the dubious distinction of being the only car ever launched after the selling company had gone bust?

 

As to VAG, watch American Youtube channels and they have a far lower opinion of VAG cars. My only experience of them has been an old Audi 100 which put me off ever touching one again - plus fixing a neighbours modern Audi tail light (the earth terminal on the connector for the tail light was under spec and had burnt out)

All the best

Katy

[Hobby]

Been using VAG cars since 2001 (six so far, averaging 12/14k pa), only one "limp home" mode incident during that time, and even then a switch off and back on cleared it, other than that they've been very reliable... Perhaps shows the dangers of making assumptions based on the experience of one car, or based on forums where people have an axe to grind... Looking at the surveys the top rated cars are around 92/93%, even the lower rated come in at 83% so, with only a 10% difference the chances are even if you bought a lower rated car it would still be ultra reliable...

[spamcan61]

I think the nearest we'll ever get to factual car reliability data, given manufacturers don't spend billions on advertising so we can make fact based purchasing decisions, are the ADAC & TUV reports from Germany, these break down number of breakdowns per 100 cars etc. over the years.

 

https://car-recalls.eu/reliability/

 

The breakdowns per market segment are an easy skim read.

 

https://car-recalls.eu/adac-reliability-index-2022-least-reliable-cars/

Edited August 1, 2022 by spamcan61

[Northmoor]

With car reliability (as with safety), there are three factors: Design, Operations and Maintenance.  For the latter, you need to consider whether the owners you are selling the car to are likely to adhere to the maintenance spec.

BL cars of the 70s and early 80s deserved their reputation for unreliability.  Many were good but there were also a lot of hounds, just as there were from Vauxhall and Ford, but the press didn't have it in for them in the same way.  However, there are a number of cars from that era where the owners clubs have demonstrated that they were fundamentally good designs and just needed to be treated properly.  It has often been said that the biggest mistake Jaguar made with their XJ6 - by all accounts a superb car - was selling it too cheap.  This meant it was in the hands of too many people who could afford the HP to buy it and exhibit it on their drive, but baulked at paying the annual maintenance bill.  Of course when it broke down for the umpteenth time they omitted to mention this to their neighbours......

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

With car reliability (as with safety), there are three factors: Design, Operations and Maintenance.  For the latter, you need to consider whether the owners you are selling the car to are likely to adhere to the maintenance spec.

BL cars of the 70s and early 80s deserved their reputation for unreliability.  Many were good but there were also a lot of hounds, just as there were from Vauxhall and Ford, but the press didn't have it in for them in the same way.  However, there are a number of cars from that era where the owners clubs have demonstrated that they were fundamentally good designs and just needed to be treated properly.  It has often been said that the biggest mistake Jaguar made with their XJ6 - by all accounts a superb car - was selling it too cheap.  This meant it was in the hands of too many people who could afford the HP to buy it and exhibit it on their drive, but baulked at paying the annual maintenance bill.  Of course when it broke down for the umpteenth time they omitted to mention this to their neighbours......

The same with the Triumph Stag. I have had my car serviced religiously every year, for fourteen years and it has only let me down once with a worn clutch, and that was due to me resting my size 12 on the clutch pedal inadvertently.

[rodent279]

Please share make it too hot to handle….

***** Stolen *****
A green 2 x Door Saloon
registration KEL747E
Taken 1st August early morning from 
Trinity Road, London SW18 3SN
If you see it please contact 
The Met police crime ref number:-0316501/22

[Rugd1022]

Hope it gets found in one piece.

 

Spotted in Bletchley last week...

 

 

 

[30368]

12 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

Spotted in Bletchley last week...

 

It is going to be tricky for the motor home driver to continue the holiday journey but then a holiday in Bletchley would not be my choice.

 

I speak as one who spent a fair amount of time at Bletchley TMD early in the century dealing with the class 321 disc brake crises...

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[Darius43]

Worthing classic car rally 31 July 2022.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

[Darius43]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[30368]

3 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

Worthing classic car rally 31 July 2022.

 

Truly wonderful images, I assume all the owners are at the pictures to see "Elvis"....

 

Cars not for me I'm afraid. We went to see Elvis last night. Some great acting (and singing) but we both thought the movie told us very little about EP really other than his Black American influences which are well known,

 

Roll on The Return of the Railway Children!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[steve1]

York today.

 

steve

 

 

[great central]

Seen twice this week on my way into work. Going in the opposite direction, so presumably being used as a daily driver a bright red P reg Mk3 Cortina. Must have been one of the last Mk3s?