For those interested in old cars.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Kickstart said:

Thought they were 45hp for the 899 engine. But that might be Brochure Horse Power!

 

My sister had a Seicento sporting as her first car, which was great fun to drive.

 

45hp sounds like a number for the 999cc FIRE engine. The 899 Seicento was the old three bearing pushrod engine. Apparently they are very tunable but I remember it being 38 or 39hp.

They all eventually got the 1100 FIRE engine like the Sporting. I got one as a loaner and it was a lot happier on the motorway than the old 899

[Dunsignalling]

14 minutes ago, alastairq said:

I had two Mk1  Fiestas.....including one rebuilt from write-offs. {Easy to do, providing panel lines were followed, rather than  traditional cut n shut..ie sawn in half]

Didn't find either of them slow in the least...but they had to be driven hard and well...an easy task in the Fiesta...certainly compared to a AH Sprite!

My favorite was an S plate Renault 4 TL.

70 flat out [downhill] yet I still overtook many a bit of traffic in it.

 

Yet, I think my point was, providing one was aware of a car's limitations, one could have fun driving it well, within those limitations. None of which [even a 948cc Morris Minor] had limitations less than the sorts of speeds on normal, traffic-laden roads of today.

It wasn't about the size of the engine [or, tyres?] but what one could do with it all.

A couple of cars before the Fiesta, I had a rear-engined Renault 10, also 1.1 litre and built 17 years earlier. It had none of the shortcomings present in the Fiesta, though it had to be treated with similar caution in the wet. It also did 45+ mpg (50 on a long run) whereas the Fiesta rarely bettered 35.

 

The 1360cc Pug 205 that replaced the Fiesta had twice the power but used less petrol.

 

John

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[tomparryharry]

1 hour ago, 30801 said:

 

Somewhere I probably still have David Vizard's Mini tuning book. Some of the advice in there such as popping down the scrappie's and and getting an engine from a rotted out MG 1300, you can't do any more.

 

Lucky you. I can't find any of my books, magazines or pamphlets.  Triple C magazine was absolutely de rigueur if you liked slightly offbeat cars. Nowadays, 5-axis machining delivers multi-port cylinder heads, all cut from the solid.  

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

Lucky you. I can't find any of my books, magazines or pamphlets.

 

I'm sure somewhere in the garage are all my Jalopy magazines. Simply the finest motoring magazine ever made.

[tomparryharry]

Blimey! That's a mag that passed me by!

 

back in the 80's we used to make the 'square' wheels for Austin-Rover for the Maestro, Montego, and the Allegro 1750's. The upmarket alloys had about 20 spokes all at offset angle to the radius of the wheel. It looked good, until taking a corner at Llandow resulted in a fully-inflated wheel, minus its centre hub, going bouncing down the pit area. Kleenex shares were 'up' on the markets....

[doilum]

We also had two MK1 fiestas in what.we look back on as our poverty years. The first was an 1100 from my brother. Sat on Spax suspension and a 13" steering wheel it really went well. Only let down were the tiny front discs which faded quickly after one hard use. The second was a 1300 which I took as a reluctant part exchange when the kid who was buying my XR3 failed to come up with the necessary cash. In the end we kept it over five years as it became my wife's run a round when I was able to fund a very nice XR3i. The 13" wheels allowed the use of Ford's standard disc brakes which, in a car weighing next to nowt were more than adequate. Ten quid bought four gallons of gas (enough for a round trip to Flamborough,) a round of ice creams and a couple of sherberts later in the evening. Happy days.

Edited December 25, 2022 by doilum
Predictive text error

[Rugd1022]

Talking of old Fords...

 

1973 :

 

 

 

2007 : 

 

 

No, the chap in both photos isn't the late and much missed Des Lineham of the BBC, it's Ford Competitions Department bod Allan Wilkinson!

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Rugd1022

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, doilum said:

We also had two MK1 fiestas in what.we look back on as our poverty years. The first was an 1100 from my brother. Sat on Spax suspension and a 13" steering wheel it really went well. Only let down were the tiny front discs which faded quickly after one hard use. The second was a 1300 which I took as a reluctant part exchange when the kid who was buying my XR3 failed to come up with the necessary cash. In the end we kept it over five years as it became my wife's run a round when I was able to fund a very nice XR3i. The 13" wheels allowed the use of Ford's standard disc brakes which, in a car weighing next to nowt were more than adequate. Ten quid bought four gallons of gas (enough for a round trip to Flamborough,) a round of ice creams and a couple of sherberts later in the evening. Happy days.

I only bought my Fiesta because my previous car, a Renault 18GTS, (1.7 litre) had succumbed to tin worm.

 

On reflection, I perhaps expected too much of the baby Ford, but even after blowing the previous owner's cobwebs out of it, I could never imagine describing it as "going really well" other than down very steep hills! My 1968 Renault 10 of similar cc in a heavier car had been  a lot livelier.

 

Maybe if I lived somewhere flat....

 

John

Edited December 25, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[MJI]

4 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

Talking of old Fords...

 

1973 :

 

 

 

2007 : 

 

 

No, the chap in both photos isn't the late and much missed Des Lineham of the BBC, it's Ford Competitions Department bod Allan Wilkinson!

 

 

Why is there a banana in his pocket?

[Rugd1022]

15 hours ago, MJI said:

Why is there a banana in his pocket?

 

Coz he couldn't afford any aubergines, that's why!

 

More nostalgia...

 

 

[RJS1977]

20 hours ago, doilum said:

We also had two MK1 fiestas in what.we look back on as our poverty years. The first was an 1100 from my brother. Sat on Spax suspension and a 13" steering wheel it really went well. Only let down were the tiny front discs which faded quickly after one hard use. The second was a 1300 which I took as a reluctant part exchange when the kid who was buying my XR3 failed to come up with the necessary cash. In the end we kept it over five years as it became my wife's run a round when I was able to fund a very nice XR3i. The 13" wheels allowed the use of Ford's standard disc brakes which, in a car weighing next to nowt were more than adequate. Ten quid bought four gallons of gas (enough for a round trip to Flamborough,) a round of ice creams and a couple of sherberts later in the evening. Happy days.

 

My parents bought a Mark 1 Fiesta Popular from new in 1981, and kept it for over 20 years until the tin worm got at the sills. Both my sister and I learned to drive in it. Whilst some things took a bit of getting used to (mostly operating the choke), it was a pleasure to drive.

After passing my test, I never bought a car, and it's only really been this year when I've had to do site visits with work that I've taken up driving again. I've had a variety of hire cars in the last few months - Vauxhall Corsa and Astra, Nissan Juke, FIAT 500, even a Peugeot 208 EV (yuck!) but given the choice, I'd much rather still be pottering around in the old Fiesta.

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

Coz he couldn't afford any aubergines, that's why!

 

More nostalgia...

 

The 'learner' RT is possibly a pre-war example. If it is its RT41 FXT217.

Edited December 26, 2022 by PhilJ W

[alastairq]

Dunno about you lot, but........?

 

Running an old {AKA, classic?] car these days seems to involve more costs than the original 'purchase' cost.

That is, if the car is to retain its as-purchased paintwork, and running abilities.

For example, if one pays out a decent amount for a reasonable old car, one is somehow tied to expending an unreasonable amount over the coming months/years, in at least trying to maintain,if not improve, the car's condition.

 

The trouble is, if one's actual income is restricted,then one has to resort to more 'make-do & mend' procedures to keep on top of things, rather than splashing out larger amounts, regardless.

Which then leads us to the situation where a 'professional' may start to criticise the repairs, etc, for being somewhat 'ham-fisted' rather than splashing out the hundreds of pension-quids for the 'proper fixes!'   

 One may feel compelled to continue the expensive route started no doubt, by previous owners... simply in order to maintain the 'status quo' regarding the car's condition.

 

I have a car which cost me 'a lot' to purchase [but still at the cheap end of that particular spectrum]....and whose required spares, although easily & freely available, still have a hefty cost attached.

The purchase cost left me with little in the way of any surplus finance, to purchase any subsequently 'necessary' spares.

As an example, I discovered recently that a rubber window 'seal' had become bent, and partially detached from it's metal base plate.

The seal is a bit 'in yer face' visible [it is a door-to-side window seal]....so I was left with a choice.

To purchase  a replacement seal, new [for a pair] cost me around 40 pension-quids, delivered. [UK based spares supplier]  

Or, I could find my used tube of Tigerseal, straighten the metal backing plate, and tigersel the torn rubber to itself, and to the plate.

In all likleyhood, the repair would be obvious.

 

But, if the car were to be sold [if I karked it, for example]...the first thing that the professionals would spot would be, tigerseal repairs....the assumption being, I [the owner] couldn't afford to sort it all out in the pukkah fashion.

 

40 quid here, 60 quid there, 90 quid somewhere else...all adds up in  very short order, consuming any sort of surplus income toot sweet.

The exhaust pipe had a series of holes where it kicked up over the rear axle. The rest was in reasonable shape.

The sage [according to the 'professionals']  advice would be, to cough up 3 or 4 hundred quids and get a new exhaust 'made up!'

My titewad pensioner's choice was to purchase  [off ebay] a bend or two of roughly the right order...for less than 30 quid including clamps, and weld up my own repair, from those bends and some 'scrap' straight bits....to suit.

 

Took a while, and my mig had a trigger issue which meant, if I were to complete the job before it started raining again, the welds were of the 'blob-&-carry-one' type.

But a classic car enthusiast, if looking it over, would exclaim 'bodgery,' and be full of the criticism.

Yet, it works, even passed an MoT [not that it needed one]...

 

It seems to me, as an enthusiast for 'old cars' [can't cope with bikes any more...legover issues, for starters]...that if one is to make use of old cars, for what they were made for, then one either has to buy a real cheapoh, almost, 'wreck' and just do what is needed to keep it running....if one's subsequent surplus income is virtually zero......or, not bother at all ?

Which is the answer I suspect many financially comfortably-off classic car enthusiasts would be thinking?

 

No good the likes of me thinking about buying a 10 or 20 grands worth of decent old car , if I haven't got another 10 grand sitting around doing nowt, so I could pay for a new exhaust, or 4 new tyres......or a pukkah repair, or new window rubbers, etc.

 

{Bless Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure, my answer to old rubbers which are givng up trying hard]

 

I am getting the idea that one needs to have an equally vast amount of dosh kicking around simply to be able to do what others think  of as, 'doing the job properly'....as one would be prepared to spend purchasing  one's desired motor in the first instance.

 

Seeing as simple bodgery and innovation are indeed frowned upon in the classic car world.

 

Been watching too much Bangers & Cash recently.

Which isn't usual for  me.

 

So, does one purchase, as an example, a really decent Morris Minor, [maybe 8 or 10 grand?] which is clean & tidy in appearance, with a load of bills worth thousands to add to its boastabilty...?   With the knowledge that, as & when things need fixing [AKA, go wrong?] then only the likes of Charles Ware will do?

Or does one look for a less pretty 'runner' which is tatty but useable [if one keeps one eye closed?]...for maybe a couple of grand......or so....?

Where fixes and mends done with the alacrity of a weather-bound bodger won't really matter to the  so-called 'purists?'

Bearing in mind, all I'd be looking for is something old to use regularly, rather than something I can 'keep in the garage?'

 

Learnt a new old car expression recently.....the 10 metre{?} car.

 

Meaning, one that can look 'nice ' from 20 feet or so away, but would not stand up to a close inspection.

 

A bit like my Mustang.....Everybody tells me it's a lovely car, etc,. etc....but I know all about the warts and blemishes when one looks close up.

 

Or the lack of an interior light, simply because I won't fork out the 30 quid for a pair of door switches, and the time to replace what turned out to be, burnt wiring.

Or the replacement of the rather tatty [AKA, corroded?] interior light unit....

 

Simply because, I always have something else I can spend that 30 quid on, that seems more important than a mere interior light......Which, personally, I can do without, me being me!

 

Crikey....interior lights? Or some petrol so I can go drive the thing???

 

I guess I'd rather it worked, and I can drive the thing, rather than spend that cash on making it look better. Such is the choice on a limited income.

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by alastairq
spoolchcukah very tired.

[Northmoor]

@alastairqThis sounds very true, probably why I've always had to look towards the cheaper end of the classic market.  I can tell I'm on a different pay-grade (no resentment intended, just an acceptance) to the people who have "just popped out today and bought my self this", when "this" is a £20k fully-restored classic from a dealer.

 

Looking at classic car and bike dealer ads and you'll quickly conclude that unless you are spending at least £20k, they offer a very poor deal.  Consider that a £20k car was probably bought for £14-15k, had some minor faults corrected and two days thorough cleaning and polishing, perhaps followed by an MOT from a "friendly" (i.e. generous) local garage.  The dealer makes perhaps £3k.

The £5k car/bike was probably bought for £2k, has only the bare minimum faults corrected to get it past the same friendly MOT tester, has a day of polishing and the dealer still makes £2k.  The moral of the story is that at dealers, the less you spend, more of what you are paying is for polishing.  Buying privately, just like any second hand car you get to check out the previous owner as much as the car.

 

There is also a saying that we don't drive classic cars, we wear them.  Actually I think that's unfair on the many regular users of their classics who drive them every week and don't devote much time to washing and polishing them.  In recent years, while interest rates have been historically low, there has been a surge in classic car values, but I suspect that many - especially those who bought at the higher end of the price range for any model - are likely to be disappointed at how little profit they've actually made (Net) once the costs you've described are totted up.  Maybe they'll have got some enjoyment purely out of ownership and the limited driving they had - good luck to them - but the only ones to make money will have been those at the highest end of the market (think Ferrari, Aston Martin or E-types) who clearly had a lot of spare cash to start with......

[Rugd1022]

I think it depends on whether you've got enough in the kitty  to start with to buy a car that's already been restored properly or is fairly original but in excellent nick - or - you buy something that needs a lot of work but end up spending the same amount, but over a longer period of time. Looking back, if I added up everything I've spent on classics over the last thirty odd years, ie: the purchase prices plus all the repair, parts, accessories and restoration costs I've shelled out, I reckon I could have a mint but very usable Jensen Interceptor / a very nice Mk2 3.8 Jag / a William Towns 'Persuaders' Aston Martin DBS / Bentley S3 Continental Flying Spur by now. But... I wouldn't have had all those lovely old Minis, P5Bs and P6s that have given me so much enjoyment over that time period.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Rugd1022

[Kickstart]

On 25/12/2022 at 12:34, 30801 said:

 

45hp sounds like a number for the 999cc FIRE engine. The 899 Seicento was the old three bearing pushrod engine. Apparently they are very tunable but I remember it being 38 or 39hp.

They all eventually got the 1100 FIRE engine like the Sporting. I got one as a loaner and it was a lot happier on the motorway than the old 899

Looks like the engine was 39hp in the Seicento. So detuned compared to the older version of that engine in the UNO. The reduction in capacity from 903cc to 899cc must have been critical!

 

All the best

 

Katy

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Kickstart said:

Looks like the engine was 39hp in the Seicento. So detuned compared to the older version of that engine in the UNO. The reduction in capacity from 903cc to 899cc must have been critical!

 

I assume that would be because of emissions as I don't think the Seicento would have been dangerously over powered with 45hp.

[alastairq]

BHP per tonne?

[Rugd1022]

Early days for the swankey new Rover P6 2000 and 2000TC at the Earls Court, Paris and Geneva motor shows...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[steve1]

3 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

Early days for the swankey new Rover P6 2000 and 2000TC at the Earls Court, Paris and Geneva motor shows...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A 2 door/coupe version would have looked really smart. Shame there wasn’t one…

 

steve

[PhilJ W]

10 minutes ago, steve1 said:

 

A 2 door/coupe version would have looked really smart. Shame there wasn’t one…

 

steve

[APOLLO]

Rovers !!

 

Backed the Rover P5B out of the garage today though even as she is fully roadworthy still too much residual salt on the wet roads, so warmed her up on the drive, and back into the cosy warm dry garage. Looking forward to spring (both of us).

 

Some interesting comments re buying classic cars today. I bought my P5B in 1982 for £800, and have done not too many jobs done over the years, a full respray (£500 around 2002), sills (£100 in 1985), head gaskets (£200 1988) being the biggies, many years ago now. I'll get that clock & rear heater working one day !!

 

There is nothing major (and only bits minor) wrong, though she is by no means concours, she is not tatty either, quite sale-able I should imagine. My insurance company agreed a fully comp value of £10,000 but I'm not quite sure she is worth that. Looking at prices in the P5 club mag etc she probably is.

 

She is a very simple car to work on, twin SU carbs, bulletproof ex Buick all aluminium V8, Borg Warner 35 auto etc and absolutely NO electronics, (except radio cassette !!). She likes a drink though (20mpg approx). Spares are easy also, Land Rover specialists are a boon as many engine / brake etc parts are shared with various Land Rovers.

 

So what to do ? I know every nut, bolt, click, whirr, whoosh etc (no clanks bangs or boings - it's a Rover !!). Any similar age replacement would be an unknown and at age of 70 I'm not as handy as I was. So old cars are out, certainly not nice examples at current prices. Modern classics are increasingly loaded with electronics etc - the killer of modern(ish) cars. I plan therefore to keep her in a roadworthy condition a year or two more - but will there still be a market for these old mens flying armchairs ? - well, I was 30 years old when I bought her !!

 

I sometimes think Jag (Dad had a Mk7), look at my bank balance, then shake my head and think about a cup of tea instead.

 

Brit15

[30368]

5 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

Early days for the swankey new Rover P6 2000 and 2000TC at the Earls Court, Paris and Geneva motor shows.

 

Really well styled cars and in many respects well engineered, crash survivability was well above average. The P6 still looks fresh with its wedge shape. Besides George Smiley had one so they must have been good....

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

[Oldddudders]

7 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

She is a very simple car to work on, twin SU carbs, bulletproof ex Buick all aluminium V8,

Watch out for the oil pump. When my Land Rover 110 V8 suffered a failure at 50k, I was told this is a common fault with that engine. 

[APOLLO]

2 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Watch out for the oil pump. When my Land Rover 110 V8 suffered a failure at 50k, I was told this is a common fault with that engine. 

 

Will do.

 

The oil light always goes out immediately after starting. I change the oil and filter every year whatever (low) miles I have done. I use a good mineral oil with high zinc content for the hydraulic tappets. No problems in this department thus far.

 

As dad used to say - "Oil is cheaper than bearings "

 

Brit15