2 BIL to Blue BIL

[Colin parks]

Very brave Colin, just take your time, how are you going to take them off ?

Hi Tigermoth,

 

I shall be using the trusty old Swann-Morton craft knife. Might even use a new blade!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

It's a bit late now Colin, but had you have known how far you were going to be going with this, paint stripping would have been an advantage, at least it makes it easier to avoid details like rivets.

 

Mike.

Hi Mike,

 

I had left the paint on never knowing it would get like this! The 'rivets' are quite visible - even with the paint on and after dulling them down with fine wet & dry 400 grade sand paper.

 

The packet of spare commode handles I was looking for contains 35 of them, so no excuses can be made about a lack of parts!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Just for Tigermoth:

 

 

It wasn't too hard to get the handles off: cutting upwards, the commode handle was removed in slices. The door handle was sliced away cutting horizontally towards the door edge. Not much point in wondering if it looks better - they will all have to be done now. A few 'rivets' were lost whilst cutting the commode handle off, but these are in the area below the new handle.

 

The new etched door handle is a Southern Pride example. I might try a Roxey one later on to see if it looks any different.

 

Off to a darkened room now....

 

Colin

[Tigermoth]

Well done, looks much better. I can remember those doors from a boy, pretty heavy you know, the commode handle is used to push against with the right arm whilst trying to heave the door open with the left, good work, keep at it.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Tigermoth

[Colin parks]

Well done, looks much better. I can remember those doors from a boy, pretty heavy you know, the commode handle is used to push against with the right arm whilst trying to heave the door open with the left, good work, keep at it.

Thanks Tigermoth.

 

Only twenty-one of each handle still to do!  At least the door bangs are in place.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

DMBS toilet window fun.

 

The new verticals of the opening are carefully (that is carefully with a 'capital 'C') cut using the tee-shaped ruler to guide the knife.

 

 

Consequent to the moving of the window to the right is that the glazing has to have a strip removed on its right-hand side.

 

 

The clip which is integral to the glazing  is now also out of line with its slot on the interior into which it must fit. It will be moved back to the left.

 

 

The window glazing is tried for a fit after the opening has been made.  The surface has been not smoothed down at this point.

 

 

With the smoothing done, the prepared frame can be fixed with solvent.  Final shaping and smoothing must now wait until the solvent has fully vented off. The ventilator bonnets will go on after the thickness of the window frame has been reduced to match  the Hornby tooling of its neighbouring windows. It just occurred to me while reviewing  this photo that there are no emergency brake 'tell-tales' on the bodies.  I do like to paint these features with a dab of red (as they should be). It will be an easy job to add some small pieces of plastic strip to represent these.

 

 

Back to that darkened room...

 

Colin

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Colin parks]

The toilet window frame is now complete and with the bonnets above it too.

 

 

All the door handles are now gone and the holes drilled for etched replacements. The door bangs are going to be changed for 0.5mm plastic rod as the 0.4mm stuff looks too thin.

 

This just leaves the making of the power line junction box lids over the cabs to make, fashioning some new drain pipes for the cab front corners and removal of the printed-on lettering before painting.

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Just about all done with the bodies now:

 

 

The door bangs have been replaced with 0.5mm rod. The cab gutter down-pipes are something of a compromise as it has now become clear that the cab front profile does not allow the pipes to run down behind the vertical edge of the headstock. (In reality, the 2 BILs' cabs curved in approx. 3" short of the headstock's leading edge. The middle of the cab overhangs the headstock by about half what it should do. So, in total, the front is 50% flatter than it ought to be. It is beyond me to change that!)

 

It had always been the intention to have a two-part pipe, but it is regrettable that the plastic rod which forms the lower curve of the pipe is on the front face of the headstock - grr!

 

Attention will now turn to the chassis. I am not going to waste much more of my summertime on this, so work will be confined to the shoe beams, pick-up bogie and the over-width fuse holders.

 

Colin

Edited August 1, 2013 by Colin parks

[5Bel]

Hi Colin,

 

Your toilet transplant looks really good, it is something I will be doing on mine once I get it. I have a Kirk 2Bil half finished so may look at transplanting the ends, though that may be a step too far!! Depends on how much I end up paying for the unit. At least the underframe mods will be a bit easier!! Not that we modelers should have to do them in the first place.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Siberian Snooper]

The toilet window frame is now complete and with the bonnets above it too.IMG_6698.JPGAll the door handles are now gone and the holes drilled for etched replacements. The door bangs are going to be changed for 0.5mm plastic rod as the 0.4mm stuff looks too thin.This just leaves the making of the power line junction box lids over the cabs to make, fashioning some new drain pipes for the cab front corners and removal of the printed-on lettering before painting.Colin

Hi Colin

 

It appears that you have managed the worst of the mods without to much rivet attrition. I look forward to seeing the repaint.

 

SS

[uax6]

I find it amazing that you have the patience to do all these mods, on something that was hailed to be so good in the first place, which sadly we now know it isn't!

 

I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to move the toilet window on something so expensive, but it is good to see that you have, as it does look better.

 

I take it you are not going to cut the cabs off and scratch-build a pair to the right shape? ;-}

 

An insperation as always Colin!

 

Andy g

[Clive Mortimore]

 

I take it you are not going to cut the cabs off and scratch-build a pair to the right shape? ;-}

 

An insperation as always Colin!

 

Andy g

 What's that I hear.....Colin's razor saw "let me at it, let me at it"

 

Serious head on....As I have said before it is a pitty that these errors crept in and Colin has had to alter them.

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

Your toilet transplant looks really good, it is something I will be doing on mine once I get it. I have a Kirk 2Bil half finished so may look at transplanting the ends, though that may be a step too far!! Depends on how much I end up paying for the unit. At least the underframe mods will be a bit easier!! Not that we modelers should have to do them in the first place.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

Hi Ian,

 

Thanks for your comments. The toilet window was not too to change as I have just recently had plenty of practice making such things on the 4 COR. Forget altering the Hornby cabs. The roof is out by the same degree.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin

 

It appears that you have managed the worst of the mods without to much rivet attrition. I look forward to seeing the repaint.

 

SS

Hi SS,

 

Re. 'rivets', the photos posted on this topic showing both 2090 and anther unit in b&w suggest that the fixings on the vertical 'L' angle on the inner end corners were hardly visible. I intend to smooth those down on the model, so there is just a hint of them left. The horizontal seams on the sides in line with the bottom of the windows are in fact ridges with 'rivets' above them. I shall let well alone there.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

I find it amazing that you have the patience to do all these mods, on something that was hailed to be so good in the first place, which sadly we now know it isn't!

 

I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to move the toilet window on something so expensive, but it is good to see that you have, as it does look better.

 

I take it you are not going to cut the cabs off and scratch-build a pair to the right shape? ;-}

 

An insperation as always Colin!

 

Andy g

Hi Andy,

 

I really didn't set out to find fault with the model, just change the features which had grated on first seeing the photos of the model last December.

 

As for moving the DTC window, I wouldn't recommend anyone doing it, but the toilets are adjacent when the unit is coupled and it just looked plain wrong to leave a window encroaching on the first class compartment! Changing the periscopes was another unplanned task, but that also would have looked weird to leave them with one over a compartment.

 

No, there is no real hope of changing the cabs. As I have said, the cab roofs are also too 'blunt' and would need to be totally replaced.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

What's that I hear.....Colin's razor saw "let me at it, let me at it"

 

Serious head on....As I have said before it is a pitty that these errors crept in and Colin has had to alter them.

Hi Clive,

 

A pity it is, but it was my choice to have a go at the model. The vast majority of people will be very happy with the Hornby offering as it is. I had no idea that so much would need changing - even the air horns! Lets us just hope it doesn't happen again. (Well not to me it won't - I'm going back to scratch-building after this little episode.)

 

Re. razor saws, they have their uses, but most alteration work has been done with the Swann-Morton craft knife.

 

The irony is that I am giving my old Kirk 2 BIL - minus bogies, to Oldlugger(who is over here at the moment). He will be going home with a 2 BIL that has virtually none of the issues that the Hornby model has - good old Ian Kirk!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Edited August 1, 2013 by Colin parks

[5Bel]

Hi Ian,

 

Thanks for your comments. The toilet window was not too to change as I have just recently had plenty of practice making such things on the 4 COR. Forget altering the Hornby cabs. The roof is out by the same degree.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

Hi Colin,

 

Thanks for the heads up about the cab roofs. I may get my half finished kit out and finish it. Combine the kit and a new Hornby motor bogie and I could be on to a winner! I have put some pics of the NNK steps on my 4Sub topic.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

Thanks for the heads up about the cab roofs. I may get my half finished kit out and finish it. Combine the kit and a new Hornby motor bogie and I could be on to a winner! I have put some pics of the NNK steps on my 4Sub topic.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

Thanks Ian,

 

I will have a look at those steps.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Attention now turns to the pick-up bogie on the DTC.

 

For comparison, the bogie as supplied with the Hornby model is on the left. It is a motor bogie. On the right is the trailing pick-up bogie from my Kirk 2 BIL.

 

 

Note the differences between the two bogies (I had put the shoe fuse holders on the bogie side-frames on the Kirk 2 BIL due to the over-width stretchers). The motor bogie has longer, deeper side frames, longer leaf spring suspension and (the brake gear linkage rune in front of the wheels.

 

 

 

Here, the newly narrowed pick-up bogie has been placed under the DTC for the first time. The ride height is, amazingly, bang on, needing just a brass bush inserted in the original pivot hole in the Hornby chassis to accommodate the pivot screw. The brake gear has been removed and will be replaced with something a bit better than my early attempt at making such things. The transoms at each end will also be renewed, with the addition of the cranked guard irons from the Hornby bogie seen in the first picture.

 

That b***dy great fuse holder on the left is for the chop.

 

Colin

[Ian Fisher]

Hi Colin,

 

Great work! darkened rooms, very useful addition to our kit!

 

Was thinking about your prominent rivets could a suede brush take them down a little?

 

Regards

 

Ian

[HAB]

For comparison, the bogie as supplied with the Hornby model is on the left. It is a motor bogie. On the right is the trailing pick-up bogie from my Kirk 2 BIL.

 

 

Colin,

 

Another detail question - just looking at the axle box lids - the Hornby bogie has "trailer" type lids whereas the  Kirk one has the "motor" type - the band across the middle is the locking piece for the end float adjustment. I think the Kirk bogie is wrong in this regard.  

 

http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/preservation/news/img/cd2090_11.jpg

 

 

Unfortunately, that means that the Hornby motor bogie is also wrong...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_12_2012/post-1-0-49729500-1355775533_thumb.jpg

 

The problem with CAD design is that it is too easy to "cut and paste" methinks!

 

Ah well - just detail I suppose...

 

Looking forward to seeing the painted job!!

 

Best wishes,

 

Howard.

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

Great work! darkened rooms, very useful addition to our kit!

 

Was thinking about your prominent rivets could a suede brush take them down a little?

 

Regards

 

Ian

Hi Ian.

 

Thanks for your comments. As for 'rivets', I am minded to remove the ones on the sides at the inner ends because they do/did not really show on real 2 BILs.

 

A piece of fine wet & dry paper does the job. Strangely, the paint is harder than the plastic, so it is hard to get rid of unwanted surface detail completely without a fair bit of effort.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Colin,

 

Another detail question - just looking at the axle box lids - the Hornby bogie has "trailer" type lids whereas the  Kirk one has the "motor" type - the band across the middle is the locking piece for the end float adjustment. I think the Kirk bogie is wrong in this regard.  

 

http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/preservation/news/img/cd2090_11.jpg

 

 

Unfortunately, that means that the Hornby motor bogie is also wrong...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_12_2012/post-1-0-49729500-1355775533_thumb.jpg

 

The problem with CAD design is that it is too easy to "cut and paste" methinks!

 

Ah well - just detail I suppose...

 

Looking forward to seeing the painted job!!

 

Best wishes,

 

Howard.

Hi Howard,

 

Yes, I know the axle box covers are not correct. The photo in post #219 showed the bogie placed under the DTC for the first time, just to get an idea of how it looked generally. It will have new brake gear and axle box covers - plus the cranked guard irons from the Hornby bogie it replaced.

 

Do not fear, I will be staring at loads of photos of the prototype before making any changes to the axle box covers!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Further 2 BIL trailing pick-up bogie research:

 

It seemed a little selfish to just show the Hornby DTC fitted with a Kirk example which is not so easy to find these days (although perhaps the kit is being produced again).  The first four photos shows a Roxey bogie, taken from my 2 HAL and temporarily fitted to the 2 BIL chassis.

 

Firstly, a large top-hat bush with an 8BA tapped hole has been made to fit into the space where the Hornby bogie  once  clipped in.  Fitting the bush from above entailed removal of the interior moulding, which although held by six clips, was also glued randomly and most unhelpfully to two of them.  Having fought to get the dratted thing off, it was then easy to push the bush in from above.  It will be held with a dab of super glue to stop it turning when the bogie pivot screw is being tightened.

 

 

This particular bush is counter-sunk to accept the Kirk bogie taken from my old 2 BIL (which was fitted with a raised brass bush which protrudes above the bogie stretcher).

 

 

The Roxey bogie is held by a simple 8BA bolt screwed into the bush.

 

 

The Hornby DTC fitted with the Roxey trailing pick-up bogie.  It fits perfectly and is of the correct ride height.  Perhaps Howard can tell us if the axle box covers are correct. It would appear they are not!!

 

 

I have also tried the Phoenix/SEG Adjustaride version of this bogie, which is fitted to the Tin HAL.  If the top of the bogie was flush with the side frames,  it would fit perfectly too.  I didn't want to mess around with the adjustments, but if screwed down, the adjustable white metal bearing lugs would not foul the pivot mounting on the Hornby chassis. 

 

 

So, for anyone who wants to change the most glaring mistake with the Hornby 2 BIL, it is the easiest of the issues to rectify and there are four possible replacements available -

 

The Kirk one (shown with work still to be done on it), which is generally correct but too wide and needs to be narrowed by 4mm, plus removal of the moulded-on shoe fuse holders on the side frames.

 

 

The accurate Phoenix Coaches one which some say is hard to get (although I had no problem getting one last year). Again, it has the shoe fuse holders cast onto the side frames, which must be removed.

 

 

The No-Nonsense Kits version which looks very good -  the shoe fuse holders are again, I think, are cast onto to the side frames like the Phoenix bogie (as shown in 5 BEL's post #43 on Oldlugger's excellent topic here

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71773-nnk-bulleid-2-epb-in-p4/page-2

 

 

The  Roxey one which is a bit plain - I added some rivet detail on the side frames and some representation of the bolsters, but it is a direct fit to the DTC.

 

 

 

All of them need some means of fixing the bogie to the floor by means of an 8 BA threaded bush or captive 8BA nut. They come without brake gear and also need the cranked guard irons to be added. Some require the removal of moulded-on shoe fuse holders.  So, you pay your money and take your choice!

 

Colin

Edited August 2, 2013 by Colin parks

[Ceptic]

Hi Colin.

 

Just getting back on-stream here, and I might be somewhat late with these.

I don't know whether you have seen these cab front shots of the preserved 2-BIL 2090 before ?.  In comparison with views of some other Emus, the BIL's front end does appear slightly flatter  I think Hornby's interpretation of the drain down-pipes add to this impression.

 

See what you think.

 

 

On loco-hauled Maunsell & Bulleid coaches the extent of the Bow-end, from Body corners to End panel would be 6". The BIL front ends have large radiused corners, Possibly, part of the 6" bow was taken from the mid-point of this radius.?.....As always, I could be wrong.

 

All the same Colin, Great Modelling.  Many, many thanks

 

All the Best, Frank