Torn-on-the-platform Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I'm sure that many of us of this parish would love to own a specific loco, or at least a member of a certain class. I certainly have my own personal short-list for when I win the lottery! However, the recent forecast of doom for the NRM got me thinking about which locomotives are the most important to tell the story of our railway history. I would therefore like to propose the dystopian scenario that only 10 locomotives can be saved to live in a museum and it is your job to choose them. No other locomotives retired from the mainline have been saved and your choice will represent British railway history for all future generations. The rules: 1. My personal list consists entirely of steam locomotives, but contributors can include any form of motive power that they wish 2. Each selection must have some form of justification 3. Any locomotive can be chosen, even if it doesn't survive to this day 4. Each locomotive will be fully cosmetically restored to any condition of your choice, or left in a work-worn state if you so choose! I am still having trouble deciding between various locomotives for my own list, but here are my first cast-iron inclusions: 1. Trevithick's Pen-y-darren - Unless I am mistaken, the first locomotive to have any success running on the 'iron road'. 2. LNER A4 4468 Mallard - A given really, the fastest steam locomotive in the world and the culmination of the speed wars between the LNER, LMS and other companies abroad. Arguably the best example of streamlining. 3. LMS Black 5 - Any member of this class, lined out in early BR black. In my opinion, this is the quintessential British steam locomotive, and that is coming from a man who knows little about the Midland Region or any of its predecessors. Numerous, maids of all work and an instantly recognisable face of what is a 'steam engine'. 4. BR 9F 92220 Evening Star - My original intention had been to choose any other 9F in BR black to demonstrate what turned out to be the culmination of British steam design, however the copper capped last ever BR built locomotive must take its place ahead of any of its brothers. A fantastic contrast alongside Pen-y-darren. 5. GWR 57xx - Any member of the class that operated for London Transport, though presented in GWR condition. Versatile icons of the West from industry to sleepy branch lines before becoming the last steam engines working a living in the capital in an interesting and almost unique capacity. 6. GWR Castle 4073 Caerphilly Castle - A top suggestion by Gruffalo for its influence on future designs on other railways whilst being the first member of one of the GWR's flagship classes. A GWR 4-6-0 is a must for the collection and I would struggle to choose between them myself - a testament to Swindon's standardisation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Any one of the thousands of little industrials Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Brush Type 2 (later Class 31). Introduced in November 1957; one of the first successful mainline diesels in Britain (well, I always liked them). Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I will not detract from your list Chris but would like to add: Churchward's City of Truro in 1903 livery - 100mph down Wellington Bank! Collett's Caerphilly Castle as it appeared at the 1925 show because it spawned numerous classes on the LMS and others and even influenced some of the BR Standard ranges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I'd have a Q1 due to the nature of its origins, DP1 as we move on from steam I'd have a streamlined duchess due to it having been one of the most powerful steam locos An early southern EMU to show that electric has been developing for a long time Blue Pullman so that Bachmann don't get rivet counter death threats over seat colours! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I think the GNR Stirling Single ought to have a place too. But I guess it won't take long at this rate to be clocking up our top 100! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted July 15, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2013 With the Great Western at my heart, it has to be:- Sir William A Stanier, F.R.S Any GW pannier, the height of standardisation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted July 15, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2013 If it's not GWR it's not! Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Broad gauge loco last one built Atmospheric loco A horse for tramways Gasoline castle City of Truro Class 50 14xx or 48xx Anything and everything from Trevethick (copied from above) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 You'd HAVE to have a HST - the first production set 253001 in it's original TRUK/TRSB formation in blue/grey livery please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 Any one of the thousands of little industrials I'd have a Q1 due to the nature of its origins, DP1 as we move on from steam I'm torn between the Q1 and the Hunslett 0-6-0 saddle tanks as a throwback to austerity and simplicity. I'm as yet undecided, though leaning towards the Hunsletts as they were more numerous and played such a huge role in the early days of preservation. I will not detract from your list Chris but would like to add: Churchward's City of Truro in 1903 livery - 100mph down Wellington Bank! Collett's Caerphilly Castle as it appeared at the 1925 show because it spawned numerous classes on the LMS and others and even influenced some of the BR Standard ranges. You are welcome to detract from my list Gruffalo, I'd like to see as many alternative top 10s as possible! City of Truro is in my top 10 for favourite locomotives, but with Mallard already representing speed in this scenario, I'm not sure that I can justify its place. Outside frames however do play in its favour! I'd have a streamlined duchess due to it having been one of the most powerful steam locos I considered including the Duchess, but for the same reason that I haven't included CoT, I personally won't be including it in my museum. Any GW pannier, the height of standardisation. Now included! I am having a difficult time deciding upon a flagship for the Southern. Many of my favourite classes are Southern though I don't have one that stands out. WC/BoB/MN would be an obvious choice, but streamlined pacifics are already represented and space is at a premium! The same goes for LN/N15s as the Black 5 has taken the role of versatile 4-6-0. I'm not just interested in record breakers, I am also looking for the unsung hero workhorses. I feel that I should choose something suburban (Stanier 2-6-4t, LNER N2/N7, Stroudley A1/A1x) and something from the welsh coal fields (56xx or one of the larger coal tanks perhaps). I may be neglecting the North a little, but this is due to lack of knowledge rather than any bias! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 Brush Type 2 (later Class 31). Introduced in November 1957; one of the first successful mainline diesels in Britain (well, I always liked them). Best, Pete. My knowledge of diesels is certainly lacking though this would be one of the first diesels that I would consider if I weren't personally sticking to steam! You'd HAVE to have a HST - the first production set 253001 in it's original TRUK/TRSB formation in blue/grey livery please. And the same goes for this! Class 43s have lived a long life in a variety of liveries, serving several companies and showing no signs of slowing down yet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyA Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Here is my list which is based purely on emotion rather than knowledge 1 Rocket 2 GWR Lord of the Isles (broad gauge) Exhibited abroad and an example of Brunel’s broad gauge 3 GWR Dean Goods Served in UK and abroad and surpassed many later designs 4 LMS Jinty 5 LMS 7120 class shunter Forerunner of the 08 and served in UK and abroad 6 LNER Mallard 7 SR Q1 8 BR Deltic 9 BR Evening Star I know at least one member will disagree with my choice of two GW locomotives and only one Southern. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted July 15, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2013 Hells Teeth! Completely forgot Dean Goods! As for my somewhat contentious posting earlier, I think most GWR aficionados will accept that the last Duchesses/Cities/Uncle Tom Cobbllies were the epitome of GWR steam. Just a pity about that bl**dy awful colour scheme.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted July 15, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2013 I'm surprised that Stanier's eight freight hasn't made an appearance yet. Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted July 15, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2013 Well, for me the selection would be... 1. Locomotion. Example of our early railways 2. LBSCR D1 tank. There are hundreds of tank engine designs...this is a favourite 3. Stanier Black Five. Numerous class and an influential design. 4. Mallard...well you have to don't you! 5. Evening Star. The last one! 6. Industrial tank engine. Railways were born in industry...why wouldn't you have one? 7. Class 20. Diesel pioneer which is still part of the landscape over 60 years later. 8. BR 4CIG. Again personal preference, but you cannot have a history of British railways without an EMU. 9. HST. Again, no history of British railways is complete without one. Also covers the DMU. 10. Class 92. Odd choice? Well, it is an electric locomotive, but also is included due to its channel tunnel connection If I had more choices the class 08, Lord of the Isles, a castle and a GWR railcar would all feature as well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 One to represent the beginnings of the railways (Rocket or the like) One to represent the broad gauge style (BG Lord of the Isles is a good one) One to represent the workaday railway (pick an 0-6-0 tender loco) One to represent the race to the north (Mallard) One to represent the station pilots etc (GWR pannier) One to represent the commuter railways (SR electric unit) One to represent the early diesels (Deltic?) One to represent the little trains (a narrow gauge steamer) One to represent dieselized passenger travel (HST) One to represent the current railway (Class 66 or a modern DMU/EMU) Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I'm sure that many of us of this parish would love to own a specific loco, or at least a member of a certain class. I certainly have my own personal short-list for when I win the lottery! However, the recent forecast of doom for the NRM got me thinking about which locomotives are the most important to tell the story of our railway history. I would therefore like to propose the dystopian scenario that only 10 locomotives can be saved to live in a museum and it is your job to choose them. No other locomotives retired from the mainline have been saved and your choice will represent British railway history for all future generations. The rules: 1. My personal list consists entirely of steam locomotives, but contributors can include any form of motive power that they wish 2. Each selection must have some form of justification 3. Any locomotive can be chosen, even if it doesn't survive to this day 4. Each locomotive will be fully cosmetically restored to any condition of your choice, or left in a work-worn state if you so choose! I am still having trouble deciding between various locomotives for my own list, but here are my first cast-iron inclusions: 1. Trevithick's Pen-y-darren - Unless I am mistaken, the first locomotive to have any success running on the 'iron road'. 2. LNER A4 4468 Mallard - A given really, the fastest steam locomotive in the world and the culmination of the speed wars between the LNER, LMS and other companies abroad. Arguably the best example of streamlining. 3. LMS Black 5 - Any member of this class, lined out in early BR black. In my opinion, this is the quintessential British steam locomotive, and that is coming from a man who knows little about the Midland Region or any of its predecessors. Numerous, maids of all work and an instantly recognisable face of what is a 'steam engine'. 4. BR 9F 92220 Evening Star - My original intention had been to choose any other 9F in BR black to demonstrate what turned out to be the culmination of British steam design, however the copper capped last ever BR built locomotive must take its place ahead of any of its brothers. A fantastic contrast alongside Pen-y-darren. 5. GWR 57xx - Any member of the class that operated for London Transport, though presented in GWR condition. Versatile icons of the West from industry to sleepy branch lines before becoming the last steam engines working a living in the capital in an interesting and almost unique capacity. 6. GWR Castle 4073 Caerphilly Castle - A top suggestion by Gruffalo for its influence on future designs on other railways whilst being the first member of one of the GWR's flagship classes. A GWR 4-6-0 is a must for the collection and I would struggle to choose between them myself - a testament to Swindon's standardisation. Reluctantly I will accept dropping CoT although it has much merit but you must include the HST - it has been a bl**dy great UK success and well beyond its original "stop-gap" role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 There are five "must haves" I feel: The HST (253001), as I've already mentioned, as it illustrates the "unit" concept of train operation as well as being UK rails foremost train over the past 35 years or so. "Evening Star" - well you have to have the "last one" don't you? As someone mentioned above, a black one would grimey black one would be typical, but the "last one" concept trumps that. "Mallard" - how could you not have the world record holder, which I doubt will ever be beaten. Also represents the peak of UK express passenger power, Whilst I feel Stanier's Duchess was a better machine, you can only have one so it's got to be "Mallard" LMS diesel 10000 - how this slipped the preservation net is tragic. Being the first, it represents all the mainline diesels which followed; even my beloved Deltics. The first of the production batch of GW Stars 4001 - The first of a long line of very successful 4-cylinder express locos that worked the mainlines to the west. Pity about its name, but performance wise, it wasn't a dog. Need to think more about the other five..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 One to represent the beginnings of the railways (Rocket or the like) One to represent the broad gauge style (BG Lord of the Isles is a good one) One to represent the workaday railway (pick an 0-6-0 tender loco) One to represent the race to the north (Mallard) One to represent the station pilots etc (GWR pannier) One to represent the commuter railways (SR electric unit) One to represent the early diesels (Deltic?) One to represent the little trains (a narrow gauge steamer) One to represent dieselized passenger travel (HST) One to represent the current railway (Class 66 or a modern DMU/EMU) Adrian Workaday steam - I would include the Fowler 4F, simply because it was probably the most able of its breed (IMHO). There, as a GWR supporter, I have sinned - MAY I CRAVE FORGIVENESS! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 15, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2013 If it's 10 locos over approximately 200 years of UK railway history, that works out about one loco for every 20 year segment. that means I can have 3 diesels (or electrics!) Apart from the vague mention of a d*lt*c, there's no English Electric in there. My vote goes for a 20 - rugged, reliable and long lived and part of the modernisation plan of 1955. HST - iconic - the saviour of inter-city passenger traffic I would also vote for a 66 - possibly the saviour of rail freight today. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 10000 was powered by a 16-cyl EE engine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 HST, Class 31 and Class 66 are my top choice diesels. Is it the 37s that you still see around today too? I still don't feel I've finished with steam yet though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 15, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2013 A few alternatives to just Britain but important to the railways now being global and ones that might have a place in the future of heritage and national network rail 1: Rocket, Bringing together all the features on a locomotive that drove the railway expansion. 2: Double Fairlie, Festiniog Rly power in a compact package. 3: K1 Beyer Garratt, leading to ultimate development of steam power controlled by a single crew, and able to handle sharper curves 4:SAR Red Devil , LD Porta, pushing the boundaries of steam development. 5: Tornado - the future for heritage steam? new build classic design. 6: SLM Brienz Rothorn rack locos, modern steam competing equally with diesel. 7: Mallard, classic grace and power of the 1930's golden era and the fusion of marketing streamliners and getting the job done. 8: EMD FT, multiple unit diesel power leading the way to successful multiple unit mass power for huge train lengths. 9: HST, high speed travel to the masses and longevity of a good design. 10: Genset, multiple modular engine technology, the future of efficient railroading? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 OK, my sixth choice would be the broad gauge "North Star". There has to be mention somewhere in our ten,and this was one of the more successful of the wide gauge engines. Still pondering the remaining four..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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