Why GWR ?

[LULFAN]

Hi

 

I've only been modelling model railways for just over a year and I'm intrigued to know as to what the huge attraction for the Great Western is

 

Many of the videos I've seen on YouTube seem to feature 'a sleepy Great Western country branch terminus' and many preserved lines seem to feature GWR locos, even when the lines are hundreds of miles away from the GWR area

 

It's not my intention to upset anyone by asking this question - I really would like to know the answer

 

All the railway companies had sleepy branch line termini, which brings me to another question - why are so many layouts set in sleepy country side ?

 

I know it's difficult to model main lines in 00 scale because of the space required but there were lots of small branches in urban areas e.g Staines West, Palace Gates and Uxbridge Vine Street

 

Any ideas ?

[HillsideDepot]

Some good questions, LULFAN!
 

I guess everyone will have to answer for themselves, but I have heard it suggested that the GWR had the strongest marketing, and is often associated with summer holidays in Devon and Cornwall. And so, to many people GWR means sunshine and happy days. But of course, Devon and Cornwall were but a small part of "GWR-land", and in terms of revenue its probably true to say that a coal laden Welsh valley branch threading its way amongst rows of grey terraced houses contributed more than many a country branch line. And of course Skeggy, Blackpool and numerous other holiday locations weren't GWR-land.

For me, being interested in the Western is probably due to family influences, have great grandfathers working on the GWR and a grand mother with the maiden name of Collett must have been a factor. But also growing up in Chippenham, with a GWR bias in the books at the local library again must have had an effect. As I grew older I realised what a huge topic railways are, and some degree of specialisation would be needed, so the Western was the way to go. Nowadays my interests are more diesel era based, but still very definitely "Western".

 

It's hard though to work out cause and effect. I was at the Glos/Warks railway diesel gala yesterday, and of the traction running the Pressed Steel 117 DMU was probably the most "Western". Sure, the Peak, 47 and 37 were all typical of the Western, but it wasn't an overtly "Western" line-up. But there are many Great Western buildings at the stations, the whole place has a very "Western" feel about it still, and a good number of beautiful lower quadrant signals control movements. And that is the thing, do these signals themselves help build the whole Western appeal, or do I know them as Western and therefore they have become familiar, homely even and therefore on my "likes" list? I can't now say, they are too ingrained into the whole.

 

Perhaps we generally try to model something we want but can't have. That might be a sleepy west country branch line, or a depot full of our favourite locomotives, or in my case blue diesels. So perhaps a lazy long summer day, with the occasional steam train is what many crave?  But then there is the circle of the trade will make what sells, and once a certain amount of interest is built through having particular models available interest in that subject will increase, so more models on that theme will sell well, and encourage more in to that specialism. But that doesn't explain what starts that process.

So, sticking my neck out a bit, those are my thoughts. I'm sure others will disagree, but without this degenerating into a GW vs the rest, why do others model the GW, or why do they model something else?

 

[fender]

I model the GWR (well, WR to be precise) because of my roots in the west country, because I love the history of the company, the lines, and I think the locos look unquestionably the best.

[GWR460]

It's due to there traditionally being more models of gwr types made available by rtr companies for decades. If you wanted to model southern or LNER you normally only got express locos for the main part. Gwr also just looks pretty and the pannier being such a unique numerous and interesting loco has and will always spawn many layouts. I guess it's the pannier tank that is the railway modelling equal to the airfix spitfire. And the LNER mallard the equal in appeal to the avro vulcan. There are always those that just grab people.

I'm sure there are many comvos come up about these types and less convos come up about peckett saddle tanks.

Much as I love all the common majestic stuff we are offered for me the real huge hole in modelling and railway history that would make amazing layouts is the numerous industrial lines and industrial shunters. I wish Hornby or Bachmann would rise to this wish a "backbone of Great Britain" series there we're so many lovely interesting unique little engines and wagons plus buildings that would make terrific layouts for the space starved modeller and the huge layout builders also. Check out the old bbc series "THE TRAIN NOW DEPARTING" "LINES OF INDUSTRY" it is fascinating and amongst its many scenes features the chalk Pitts railway museum. Really a fantastic series and sad it was only for 6 episodes. It was a beautiful series in every manner back when the bbc made lovely family enjoyable programmes that were not full of family arguments, cooking, debt, more cooking, selling houses, and balifs lol

[Kris]

For preserved railways it comes down to loco availability. Due to the way preservation happened more GWR locos ended up being preserved than locos from other regions.

 

The GWR also has an advantage that at the time of grouping (1923) a large proportion of their network was under their control already, something that was not the case with the other 3 companies. For example Southern was created from LSWR, LSBC & SECR (along with other minor railways).  

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Historical perspective: You don't have to go back very far in time to find that the popular interest was well spread around. Of pre-group companies the Midland, LNWR, GNR and LB&SCR may well have topped the interest chart. No small wonder, all in densely populated territory and/or leaders in the railway field. The GWR got its big break in model railways in the 60s and 70s, when OO RTR became widely available and more affordable. Of all the big four this was the most easily realistically modelled because of the standardisation of the loco stock in particular, and was heavily promoted in the model railway press, at times almost to the exclusion of all else.

 

I could go a lifetime quite cheerfully without ever seeing another 'stock' GWR/GW Ashburleigh BLT. Having experienced the end of steam period on BR, anything was preferable to Western Region. Dilatory secondary services, slow main line trains, generally filthy, grumpy staff...

[hornbyandbf3fan]

Modellers liking to model where they are from is a main thing or what they can remember. I prefer LNER and I'm from the East Midlands. Also, there are a lot of high quality models in rtr from the western region and this may be a pulling point for people undecided.

[steve fay]

I suppose its more of a question of why not?

No in all seriousness I can appreciate all steam engines but for me personally coming form south east Wales it wasn't going to be an option, my dad had a paper round who's route included Pontypool road engine shed and my grandad was a life long railway man starting out as a cleaner at Pontypool road in 1947 then going on to the PWay until 1994. I'm only 33 so early 90s sectorisation is my time period but the stories of steam really captivated me from an early age so the late 50s early 60s is the era that I'm most interested in.

So much so it even made me write a poem about my future project which isn't something I've felt tempted to do before for any one or any thing. See below!

[coachmann]

In an age when proprietory (Triang and Hornby Dublo) were regarded as toys and played no part in serious railway modelling, K's produced thier first locos kit, a GWR 14XX 0-4-2T, in the early 1960s. This kind of opened up a new market and so a GWR Dean Goods was a natural follower-on. It was sound thinking because, alone amongst the Big four railways, GWR engines big and small carried colour....plain green, which did not require great painting skills. Then of course the GWR was traditional rather than modern, and the visible advances seen on the LMS, LNER and SR did not apply. Other GW ingredients were lower-quadrant signals when 'tothers were doing away with them, magic names like dark stone, light stone, Middle Chrome Green, copper, brass, plus no hard-to-assemble outside valegear, and simple all over dark grey on wagons. When it came to coaches, people simply painted anything to hand chocolate & cream and called it Great Western.

 

By the time Wills produced their bodyline kits and brought Triang and Hornby Dublo RTR chassis into the modelling field, the seeds had been neatly sown by 'Railway Modeller' magazine.

 

Ever the awkward one, I modelled muck and grime Lanky-Yorky in the early 1960s but it doesnt mean I have never been tempted by the GWR, afterall I visited the Cambrian almost every summer up until 1964 just to soak up Western Region atmosphere

[Rugd1022]

Get yourself along to the 'Steam' museum at Swindon and you'll get a flavour of what it's all about... before you go inside though, take the trouble to have a wander around the remaining buildings of the Works, parts of which are actually very beautiful indeed. Soak it all up, then you'll 'get it'...

 

Also, if you get a chance to see 5043 'Earl Of Mount Edgcombe' doing it's stuff out on the mainline, something may well just 'click' and the proverbial penny will drop...

[bike2steam]

The attraction to model the GWR branch line goes back well before preservation, it's due to their ability to grasp the philosophy of standardization and set the standard for the typical branch line train, better than any other, so easy to model, and more 'rtr' friendly.

[bluebottle]

... Gwr also just looks pretty and the pannier being such a unique numerous and interesting loco has and will always spawn many layouts. I guess it's the pannier tank that is the railway modelling equal to the airfix spitfire...

 

I knew that there would be no shortage of enthusiasm by the faithful in response to LULFAN's OP, but that simile is a real corker!

ACHTUNG!  PANNIER!!  MEIN GOTT!!!

They're cute little things, but I've always preferred the small prairies, which look more like proper engines. I'll resist the temptation to compare them with Me 109s, however...

 

Edit: spelling slip.

[coachmann]

Being realistic, a Lanky 2-4-2T or NER G5 or whatever on a push pull set is nostalgic to folk who identify with such things even if it's only from old phtotos in their local station, but to anyone nuitral looking to model a country branchline, a GWR and engine and auto coach has a lot going for it in terms of 'attractive models'.

[The Stationmaster]

Because it's there!  The feeling of 'differentness' that went with the GW lasted a long time into the BR era which helped plus a lot of the rural part of it was vanishing which must have influenced some folk to try to hold or recreate the memory of it.  And as already noted many people remembered it from their younger years as a 'holiday line'.

[Dunsignalling]

LULFAN, on 28 Jul 2013 - 12:33, said:

 

Hi

 

I've only been modelling model railways for just over a year and I'm intrigued to know as to what the huge attraction for the Great Western is

 

Many of the videos I've seen on YouTube seem to feature 'a sleepy Great Western country branch terminus' and many preserved lines seem to feature GWR locos, even when the lines are hundreds of miles away from the GWR area

 

It's not my intention to upset anyone by asking this question - I really would like to know the answer

 

All the railway companies had sleepy branch line termini, which brings me to another question - why are so many layouts set in sleepy country side ?

 

I know it's difficult to model main lines in 00 scale because of the space required but there were lots of small branches in urban areas e.g Staines West, Palace Gates and Uxbridge Vine Street

 

Any ideas ?

At the risk of sounding slightly cynical:

 

Q. Why a GWR (or WR) branch?

 

A. Quite simply, enough of what you need to build and run a reasonably convincing layout is available ready made. You won't actually HAVE to make anything until you feel ready and, with so much information readily available, there is little need for research, either.

 

John

[jcm@gwr]

Surely there has been an omission

in the thread title,

 

it should have read:-

 

Why not GWR?

 

It would be quicker to list the reasons

not to model the best railway!

 

Jeff

[Danemouth]

Is there any other pre nationalisation railway other than the GWR? - gets coat and runs like h3ll :)

 

I model BR(W) basically because that what I saw as a boy apart from the fact my grandfather was a Signalman (First Class). Mind you I've been tempted by the Southern a couple of times. I suspect many of us model what we saw as kids.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

 

p.s. Granddad used to Travel on GWR and see the world, travel on LMS and see the next!

 

Now adding running shoes to coat.

[grahame]

Funny enough, regardless of what people have said, the GWR does nothing for me and actually leaves me a little cold. I prefer the SR, BR(S) and NSE.

 

But I guess people will always model the GWR as there are bound to be a few people who live in that area, the model manufacturers pander to it and some people do like oddball quirky things. At least it adds a little variety to our hobby.  

 

G.

[Danemouth]

Funny enough, regardless of what people have said, the GWR does nothing for me and actually leaves me a little cold. I prefer the SR, BR(S) and NSE.

 

G.

 

Grahame,

 

That's one of the beauties of railway modelling the British Outline.

 

There's such variety that you have an excellent chance of finding a prototype that suits you bith in terms of period and location

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Gruffalo]

I know I'm pro GWR (with a bit of S&DJR thrown in for good measure) but a trip to Didcot today only confirmed my favouring that company. Mind you, 14xx 0-4-2T and a Mogul 2-6-0 in BR black and a King 4-6-0 in experimental BR Blue was stretching it a bit!

 

Great Way Round for detractors, God's Wonderful Railway for the aficionado's, there is something for everyone to love or hate. The architecture is fairly consistent and well documented, the engines have a measure of standardisation, the colour schemes are aesthetically comfortable and the company served a lot of geographic area with a multitude of branch lines - many remember these areas from when we holidayed 'at home'. 

 

That doesn't explain why the younger generations still like the company, I guess that could be down to grandparents?

[chrisf]

The GWR is in my blood. My grandfather held a senior position on the GWR and WR and at his retirement in 1955 was head of the Mineral Accounts Office at Barry Dock where he oversaw the introduction of punch card accounting. His house in Barry offered a panoramic view of the branch to Barry Island and the endless stream of excursions on Sundays and Bank Holidays and the dock area where Dai Woodham set up shop and changed the course of preservation. [Why did I never become an estate agent?] In the cutting on the other side of the road was and still is to be found the Vale of Glamorgan line and at irregular intervals through the day life was punctuated by the bark of a loco getting its train under way. Just round the corner was a fan of sidings where loaded and empty coal wagons were shunted.

 

As if this were not enough the first 14 years of my life were spent in Acton. Most of my spotting was done at Acton Main Line, 4 and a bit miles from Paddington with the full range of main line motive power, including the elusive Kerosene Castle, and the Tanner Oners on the locals, the latter provoking uncouth utterances such as "scrap it!". One school holiday treat was a ride on the nearest branch line, from Ealing Broadway to Greenford and back in auto trailers with names. I was aware of other railways, of course. My other grandparents lived in NW9 near the Midland and the trip over there by trolleybus involved crossing the WCML at Willesden Junction. Neither these nor the North London Line at Acton Central really grabbed me. Relocation to Huntingdon found me at school next to the East Coast main line and being subjected to Streaks and Deltics only lessened my interest in railways which did not recover for many years. OK, light the bonfire and burn the heretic.

 

The GWR may be popular despite history. Sir James Milne, last General Manager of the GWR, was offered the chair of the Railway Executive but declined because of his opposition to nationalisation. Imagine a BR dominated by Western thinking ...

 

Chris

[Rugd1022]

 I was aware of other railways, of course.

The GWR may be popular despite history. Sir James Milne, last General Manager of the GWR, was offered the chair of the Railway Executive but declined because of his opposition to nationalisation. Imagine a BR dominated by Western thinking ...

 

Chris

 

''Aware of other railways of course''... how wonderfully dismissive Chris, which from where I sit is a compliment! I can identify with this quite strongly, even now - I know I'm always banging on about it, but whenever I work our depot's best job, the 6M40 Westbury to Stud Farm empties relieving it at Oxford, I get a lovely warm feeling which always seems to disappear the moment I turn off the GW line at Bordersley Junction and head round the curve for St.Andrews and Midland metals beyond...! I'm on the job again tomorrow, probably my last chance before we lose it for good, and I'm looking forward to it no end.

 

And as for a BR held in place by (G)WR mindset... well it certainly still felt that way when I was on the Western back in the '80s...

[steve1]

For me it was a case of being born into it. Grandfather, father and uncle all worked for GWR/BR (W) in various capacities (shunter/fitter/driver) from the 19th Century up to the 1980s between them. That's a lot of history.

 

That said, I do have a strong attachment to the to BR(E) these days but I've always had an antipathy toward the Southern. That's definitely down to my Dad!

 

steve

[The Stationmaster]

 

The GWR may be popular despite history. Sir James Milne, last General Manager of the GWR, was offered the chair of the Railway Executive but declined because of his opposition to nationalisation. Imagine a BR dominated by Western thinking ...

 

Chris

We were still trying very hard in the 1990s Chris (and sometimes winning as it happened) - even after the Region ceased to exist in 1992.  And some of us went as apostles elsewhere and once there even managed to introduce some Western methodology.

[MarkSG]

I think there are all sorts of reasons, including all the ones that have been mentioned so far. The association with holidays and an idyllic, romanticised railway past probably contributes a lot to it. The fact that the GWR was the only pre-grouping company to not only retain its name at the grouping but also remain essentially unchanged is also possibly a key factor to the way that the GWR "brand" became more deeply embedded than others. I also suspect that the GWR's use of pannier tanks had a lot to do with it - they're probably the most obviously distinctive (to a layman) small loco design. The same goes for the GWR's use of autocoaches, which were not unknown elsewhere but were far more common in the West country.

 

A lot of it, though, is almost certainly just fashion. Modellers are inspired by other modellers, and the manufacturers in turn produce products to suit that demand. And the reality is that you can, as others have already said, do a very good GWR BLT using nothing other than RTR products, something which is harder for the other companies. 

 

It's interesting, in this context, that while the stereotypical shunting plank is a GWR BLT, the equally stereotypical big roundy-roundy is based on Gresley pacifics. I think the reasons for both are, essentially, the same.

 

As for why most BLTs are set in a rural area, again, I think that nostalgia and a rose-tinted view of the past are a part of it. But, also, a rural terminus probably had a more varied and more interesting set of movements than a suburban terminus, so the former does tend to have more appeal to the modeller.