RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2011 I think there used to be a turning triangle at EG, running via the yard and the High Level, then down the St Margaret's Spur and reversing back into the present low-level station. Sadly, most of that infrastructure got nicked some years back.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I think there used to be a turning triangle at EG, running via the yard and the High Level, then down the St Margaret's Spur and reversing back into the present low-level station. Sadly, most of that infrastructure got nicked some years back.... I believe that this was indeed the case. Such a shame that it isn't any more, it would be perfect for such a job. The higher level station was long gone before I was born, I can't even imagine it when I'm waiting at EG - despite having seen the photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2011 Advantages of being old (there aren't many at 63!) include having travelled from Three Bridges to Tunbridge Wells West in about 1963, by which time it was all DEMUs, of course. The High Level lingered a bit even after the track was gone. Must have been about 1970 a colleague came in for night shift at Croydon, having parked his car at EG. On walking over the footbridge via the High Level to join his train, he had encountered two mature ladies standing on the HL platform looking anxious and wondering when the train was due, despite the lack of rails! He directed them to the Up Side LL and all was well.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted November 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2011 Quite simply none. Nowhere at EG to turn a loco, nowhere to install a 'table and no commercial case to even consider such expenditure. If / when trains run through onto the Bluebell once more I would expect they might be topped and tailed on the national network anyway as is fairly commonplace. It might be possible to drop off a trailing diesel at EG but what then takes the train back up from HK / SP? Some head-scratching would need to be done - and is probably under way already if I know anything about how the Bluebell works - to figure out the best option while trying to not have a diesel-hauled train in operation. The topic of being able to turn locos does surface on the railway from time to time and while it was a self contained opperation it was allways regarded as not a problem, the prospect of through trains has bought the issue back to the forefront. Basically as things stand a steam hauled charter train has two options, either send the loco all the way back to Selhurst for turning (limited to 45mph as it would be running tender first) or drag the charter train in one direction by a diesel. Certanly loco owners will not countanance the current method of turning which has ocasionally done using low loaders. Recognising that a turntable, while being quite a compact solution, is unlikley to be an easy option, thoughts are currently moving towards the construction of a turning triangle at Horsted Keynes which has the side benefit of using some of the surplass clay capping from the tip. Apparently there are a couple of options the curvature of which will be no grater than that encountered on the Bournemouth Central - Bournemouth West side of that triangle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted November 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2011 Read with interest the issue of loco availability....... Plus the prospect of incoming main-line charters..... But, the point is how is the extension coming along? - Good to see the spoil trains run until Dec 2nd. Has anyone been up there lately and taken any 'photos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2011 Added to which I understand that the Bluebell owns the right of way towards Ardingly already and may only need to construct the "third curve" and sufficient track to form the headshunt. What of the long-term future and a link to Ardingly and possibly running rights thence to Copyhold Junction? That gives the exciting prospect of steam from London to Brighton (for example) via Horsted Keynes while not requiring a turnback on the Bluebell itself. Where the Railway's priorities lie is of course their commercial decision to make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Did I hear of a like for like matching of donations to the fund during December or did I dream that? Talk of running through onto the Bluebell makes me think that the carriages on the line are as much an attraction to the railway than ever the locos are [controversial I know] - I'd rather transfer to a Bluebell train at EG than ride in some of that charter stock! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted November 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2011 Added to which I understand that the Bluebell owns the right of way towards Ardingly already and may only need to construct the "third curve" and sufficient track to form the headshunt. What of the long-term future and a link to Ardingly and possibly running rights thence to Copyhold Junction? That gives the exciting prospect of steam from London to Brighton (for example) via Horsted Keynes while not requiring a turnback on the Bluebell itself. Where the Railway's priorities lie is of course their commercial decision to make. There is a distinct possibility that trains could run through to Ardingly soon after East Grinstead (funds permitting). The Bluebell owns all the land through to the Stone terminal and wants to find a way of getting through. Funding for EG remains the top priority. But what this does mean is that there will be a turning triangle at H-K. Did I hear of a like for like matching of donations to the fund during December or did I dream that? Talk of running through onto the Bluebell makes me think that the carriages on the line are as much an attraction to the railway than ever the locos are [controversial I know] - I'd rather transfer to a Bluebell train at EG than ride in some of that charter stock! Yes match funding starts early December - for one week only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 But, the point is how is the extension coming along? - Good to see the spoil trains run until Dec 2nd. Has anyone been up there lately and taken any 'photos? There are some recent photo's at http://www.philpot.me/cutting4.html, with the most recent update about progress here http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/ext/extprog.html#nov11 In summary, the current three week dig should remove the majority of the waste needed with any extra trains needed running after Christmas. That should leave a single-track route through the cutting, with the remaining waste capped. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted November 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2011 There is a distinct possibility that trains could run through to Ardingly soon after East Grinstead (funds permitting). The Bluebell owns all the land through to the Stone terminal and wants to find a way of getting through. Funding for EG remains the top priority. But what this does mean is that there will be a turning triangle at H-K. Yes match funding starts early December - for one week only. The big push week starts at 10am on December 5th - every £1 donated will be doubled, plus add your Gift Aid on as well ! http://new.thebiggiv...ects/view/13964 £24 pays for 1 tonne of rubbish to be removed. There are some recent photo's at http://www.philpot.me/cutting4.html, with the most recent update about progress here http://www.bluebell-...prog.html#nov11 In summary, the current three week dig should remove the majority of the waste needed with any extra trains needed running after Christmas. That should leave a single-track route through the cutting, with the remaining waste capped. Chris Thanks Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Very good news. I am very surprised after all the doom and gloom re we need another million pounds to clear the cutting before yet another tax hike in March . Now suddenly one more current Train run ,perhaps one more next year and its through. Have they had big donation or seriously underestimated the amount of rubbish sitting in the cutting ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted November 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2011 Very good news. I am very surprised after all the doom and gloom re we need another million pounds to clear the cutting before yet another tax hike in March . Now suddenly one more current Train run ,perhaps one more next year and its through. Have they had big donation or seriously underestimated the amount of rubbish sitting in the cutting ?? I think its always been a moving object. as one of the 'photos in Robert Philpott's web shows, a wagon had to be unloaded as it was too heavy due to the water content. I think the other thing that has changed is that the idea originally was to open the cutting out to its original width. This has changed in that a channel(?) is only going to be cut through and made safe. Or at least that is my understanding at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2011 So long as a safe width can be cut and the remaining waste capped and stabilised then it shouldn't matter that only a single line may be rebuilt for now. Better that than none at all for want of the extra money. If resources become available in future years and if traffic justifies it then more work might be done and a double track reinstated. For now the Bluebell's hourly service should be perfectly able to cope with single track north of Kingscote. Let's assume (conservatively) a 20 minute run Kingscote - EG, 20 minutes for the run-round and station work and 20 back before crossing at Kingscote. Bingo -hourly service. Where that might impose limitations is on charter operations over and above that service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I was under the impression that originally all the waste was required to be removed whereas now they can keep some in place and have a narrower cutting. I assume the waste was tested or something allowing the change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I was under the impression that originally all the waste was required to be removed whereas now they can keep some in place and have a narrower cutting. I assume the waste was tested or something allowing the change. I was under the impression that the railway had realised that they would not clear the full cutting before the tax increase. Therefore, desperate to make the connection, they would forge a narrower channel and connect it up, whilst not running public trains due to the remaining unsafe spoil. It would seem from the above discussions that the intention is to run public trains through this narrower channel, so I would assume that some analysis of the remaining spoil has shown that it is safe. I don't think there will ever be call for the line to be double track, so if this cutting is safe I would suggest that it be left as a narrow channel, unless the extra spoil could be used elsewhere on the railway - for example, building a turning triangle at HK or simply extending the Ardingly spur. If I'm correct, this is indeed great news! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebell Model Railway Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 i think i wrote this up a little while ago. The cost of removing the whole cuttings worth would cost more than they predicted, so they decided on a short cut, which i learnt from a gaurd on the brake van rides at horsted, the new plan was to dig down one side and create a narrow channel to lay a single line through to EG to either place a loco up there to promote the Bluebell there, and also to start work on signalling ect... Which looks as that is now what they are going to do. I think to remove the rest of the waste would cost too much in the future... as the price will treble, when the price per tone goes up, which i think is April next year. So they want to at least get 1 line through, so its their only option. A member who runs their youtube channel wrote this on a comment to someone elses video: We need £500,000 to complete the digging, and then £400,000 to stabilise the remaining waste, lay the track, complete the signalling and re-model the north end of Kingscote Station track layout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 The topic of being able to turn locos does surface on the railway from time to time and while it was a self contained opperation it was allways regarded as not a problem, the prospect of through trains has bought the issue back to the forefront. Basically as things stand a steam hauled charter train has two options, either send the loco all the way back to Selhurst for turning (limited to 45mph as it would be running tender first) or drag the charter train in one direction by a diesel. Certanly loco owners will not countanance the current method of turning which has ocasionally done using low loaders. Recognising that a turntable, while being quite a compact solution, is unlikley to be an easy option, thoughts are currently moving towards the construction of a turning triangle at Horsted Keynes which has the side benefit of using some of the surplass clay capping from the tip. Apparently there are a couple of options the curvature of which will be no grater than that encountered on the Bournemouth Central - Bournemouth West side of that triangle. I once read in an issue of Bluebell News that a plan had been discussed to use a turntable in the main car park with a part roundhouse for exhibiting the static locos in the main running shed. This would keep them out of the way, leaving the main shed for working locos and providing a display area for those awaiting overhaul. I do believe this idea has been put to bed now. As far as I can remember, Sharpthorne was to have been the loco sat on the turntable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I was under the impression that the railway had realised that they would not clear the full cutting before the tax increase. Therefore, desperate to make the connection, they would forge a narrower channel and connect it up, whilst not running public trains due to the remaining unsafe spoil. It would seem from the above discussions that the intention is to run public trains through this narrower channel, so I would assume that some analysis of the remaining spoil has shown that it is safe. I don't think there will ever be call for the line to be double track, so if this cutting is safe I would suggest that it be left as a narrow channel, unless the extra spoil could be used elsewhere on the railway - for example, building a turning triangle at HK or simply extending the Ardingly spur. If I'm correct, this is indeed great news! In a discussion with the Chairman, no less, a year or so ago, I was told that they have apparently discussed doubling but want to get the extension open first. Most likely between HK and KC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted November 27, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2011 In a discussion with the Chairman, no less, a year or so ago, I was told that they have apparently discussed doubling but want to get the extension open first. Most likely between HK and KC. I read 'HK and KC' as 'Hong Kong and King's Cross' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Some interesting comments above. I've been keeping an eye on the posts on here. son-of-roythebus is also a fireman at the Bluebell and reckons they only have 4 serviceable steam locos! that may have changed since we last spoke about that. Problems with Bluebell locos hauling main line charter stock may be brake problems, unless the charter stock is dual-braked, or a dual-braked Bluebell loco is available. I can't really see a Terrier pulling 10 ml1's! The KESR only allows the Terriers and P to pull 2 and a half Mk1's due to the the steep bank up to Tenterden. The IoW Terriers are quite capable of pulling a 4 car bogie set fully laden, but then wooden bodied bogie coaches are lighter than Mk1's. Good luck to all at the Bluebell in their effort to re-open to East Grinstead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Some interesting comments above. I've been keeping an eye on the posts on here. son-of-roythebus is also a fireman at the Bluebell and reckons they only have 4 serviceable steam locos! that may have changed since we last spoke about that. Birch Grove, 80151 and Nettle were rostered to run this weekend, with the 1638, 592, Bluebell and 80151 (again) running next weekend. I make that 6 and am pretty sure Baxter and Stepney are steamable at the moment as well. I think they are doing ok at the moment I once read in an issue of Bluebell News that a plan had been discussed to use a turntable in the main car park with a part roundhouse for exhibiting the static locos in the main running shed. This would keep them out of the way, leaving the main shed for working locos and providing a display area for those awaiting overhaul. I do believe this idea has been put to bed now. As far as I can remember, Sharpthorne was to have been the loco sat on the turntable. I don't remember ever reading this but I've only been a fully fledged member for a few years. I would welcome it though. Visitors love to see a turntable - one of the FAQs on the website is if they have one! The functional benefits of having the roundhouse for out of serviice locos would also be fantastic. It would however be an absolutely massive undertaking, and when all the money is needed to keep the coaching stock under cover and reach East Grinstead I don't see these plans being ressurected any time soon. In a discussion with the Chairman, no less, a year or so ago, I was told that they have apparently discussed doubling but want to get the extension open first. Most likely between HK and KC. I don't dispute this at all, the Chairman is a very reliable source after all. I can't really see the point though, other than to open up a passing place to intensify services on only the busiest of running days. Did he give a reason for why it was being considered? In 'A Portrait of Bluebell Steam' - Michael S Welch, there is a lovely phto of the S15 climbing Freshfield bank in 1994 on what appears to be a section of double track. The caption assures the reader however that the second line is replacement track ready to replace the running line. It is also interesting to see in the photo that the trailing stock consists of the SECR 10 compartment coach followed by 4 Mk1/Bulleids - a combination unlikely to be seen today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I don't remember ever reading this but I've only been a fully fledged member for a few years. I would welcome it though. Visitors love to see a turntable - one of the FAQs on the website is if they have one! The functional benefits of having the roundhouse for out of serviice locos would also be fantastic. It would however be an absolutely massive undertaking, and when all the money is needed to keep the coaching stock under cover and reach East Grinstead I don't see these plans being ressurected any time soon. It was about 94-95 so a while ago. As you say a great idea but they are definitely right to get Operation Undercover completed first. I don't dispute this at all, the Chairman is a very reliable source after all. I can't really see the point though, other than to open up a passing place to intensify services on only the busiest of running days. Did he give a reason for why it was being considered? I think he wanted to compete with the GCR, and for filming etc. I think it would increase operational flexibility. Having said that, I'm not sure if that plan is still on the agenda or not. Maybe it was discussed then decided not to be worth it, although from what I was told it appears an open mind is being kept. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hamblin Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I think 80151 has been stopped with foundation ring problems. That leaves Baxter, 178, 323, 55, B473, 592 and 1638 to cover the Santa season. Stepney of course is on very light duties as it is knackered. Regards, Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Looking at this http://www.philpot.me/cutting4.html it would appear they are virtually through well done to the Bluebell Please remember donations from tomorrow via here http://new.thebiggive.org.uk/projects/view/13964 will be doubled up for free :stinker: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Thanks Mick, beat me to it! The doubling up of donations only operates from 10am tomorrow to 10am on Friday 9th, so let's all see what we can do in this final push! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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