GWML Electification

[Ron Ron Ron]

Back to the GWML........

 

Here's a couple of photos of one of the double stacked gantries (or whatever the correct technical name is), at Reading West station.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/joshtechfission/14669188721/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/joshtechfission/14649389896/in/photostream/

 

 

.

[lmsforever]

Today on BBC News, the government has agreed to pay half the cost of putting the wires up in the valleys ,someone has finaly seen the light and more people will get a better service.

[96701]

Today on BBC News, the government has agreed to pay half the cost of putting the wires up in the valleys ,someone has finaly seen the light and more people will get a better service.

Whoop whoop.

[Xerces Fobe2]

                                                                                                                                                                                       Acton! Acton! Acton!

 

Over the last 3 days Acton appears to have become mini disaster zone in railway terms with two separate issues have occurred with signalling one at Acton Town impacting the Piccadilly and District line and the more serve one on the other at Acton Mainline on the GWML which has resulted in only the 2 fast lines being available for use causing massive chaos and delays . The problem for travellers is compounded with the Global run radio stations LBC, Magic etc getting and still getting the station mixed up with Acton Town being used in travel bulletins relating to the GWML service and the confusion compounded when the Heathrow Connect and Express services and the Underground service being mentioned in the same sentence!

 

This issue is the latest in the almost continual problems with signalling during the GWML electrification works and followed on from the problems over last weekend. First Great Western services have been a nightmare with the Greenford service suspended and the suburban services on Monday running in what can only be described as an adhoc manner as FGW grapple with issues beyond their control.

 

I travelled to London on Monday with at least 50% of the suburban services cancelled or run with short formations, gross overcrowding and calling at all stations. The FGW staff at Paddington was very helpful but having to split a four car Turbo into 2 services was all they could do between 15:15 and 16:10 in order to provide a service fast to Reading and then a stopper to  Radley (Oxford stopper! FGW World!)  So I spent 4.5 travelling between Maidenhead and Paddington and return however for once I do have gripe with FGW as they did their best.

 

Looking at the bigger picture at it appears that something is going very wrong with the GWML Electrification project. Why is work being carried from Oxford to Hayes with catenary posts erected west of Reading with none as yet south Sonning Cutting?  Surely focusing effort on this section would have more resources in one area to manage issues more effectively and then enable services between Reading and Paddington to at least partially run by electric traction using a handful of Class 319”s which would add some relief to grossly overcrowded suburban services. If the current situation is not improved I can potentially see this whole project put on hold and whilst review is carried as to what needs to be done.

 

The Radio Stations also need to get their act together and provider correct information too. If I had been travelling to Heathrow on Monday I would totally if I was a visitor as their reports had effectively merged al Heathrow service into one and run via Action Town!

Edited December 10, 2014 by Xerces Fobe2

[Fenman]

... The Radio Stations also need to get their act together and provider correct information too. ...

 

So do the railway companies. I signed-up to get delay updates from Great Northern, and there has been one on each of the last three days. However, they seem to be getting more surreal:

 

- Monday was "broken down train on your route may result in ... delays".

 

- Tuesday was "a trespass incident may result in delays".

 

- And today was "an earlier problem with the station lighting may result in delays after leaving".

 

How does today's excuse make any sort of sense?

 

Still, at least it can't now be long until there are delays due to a hedgehog in the signal box.

 

Paul

[brian daniels]

They are putting the wires up between Didcot and Reading first so they can do testing with the new electric units.

[St. Simon]

They are putting the wires up between Didcot and Reading first so they can do testing with the new electric units.

 

According to a source in Network Ops of NR, the testing is meant to be start next year, although I'm not sure when next year,

 

                                                                                                                                                                                       Acton! Acton! Acton!

 

Over the last 3 days Acton appears to have become mini disaster zone in railway terms with two separate issues have occurred with signalling one at Acton Town impacting the Piccadilly and District line and the more serve one on the other at Acton Mainline on the GWML which has resulted in only the 2 fast lines being available for use causing massive chaos and delays . The problem for travellers is compounded with the Global run radio stations LBC, Magic etc getting and still getting the station mixed up with Acton Town being used in travel bulletins relating to the GWML service and the confusion compounded when the Heathrow Connect and Express services and the Underground service being mentioned in the same sentence!

 

This issue is the latest in the almost continual problems with signalling during the GWML electrification works and followed on from the problems over last weekend. First Great Western services have been a nightmare with the Greenford service suspended and the suburban services on Monday running in what can only be described as an adhoc manner as FGW grapple with issues beyond their control.

 

I travelled to London on Monday with at least 50% of the suburban services cancelled or run with short formations, gross overcrowding and calling at all stations. The FGW staff at Paddington was very helpful but having to split a four car Turbo into 2 services was all they could do between 15:15 and 16:10 in order to provide a service fast to Reading and then a stopper to  Radley (Oxford stopper! FGW World!)  So I spent 4.5 travelling between Maidenhead and Paddington and return however for once I do have gripe with FGW as they did their best.

 

Looking at the bigger picture at it appears that something is going very wrong with the GWML Electrification project. Why is work being carried from Oxford to Hayes with catenary posts erected west of Reading with none as yet south Sonning Cutting?  Surely focusing effort on this section would have more resources in one area to manage issues more effectively and then enable services between Reading and Paddington to at least partially run by electric traction using a handful of Class 319”s which would add some relief to grossly overcrowded suburban services. If the current situation is not improved I can potentially see this whole project put on hold and whilst review is carried as to what needs to be done.

 

The Radio Stations also need to get their act together and provider correct information too. If I had been travelling to Heathrow on Monday I would totally if I was a visitor as their reports had effectively merged al Heathrow service into one and run via Action Town!

 

Oh, give over Nigel! I can understand you're frustration, but sometimes both FGW and Network Rail have problems that impact on running trains and it's no good ranting on about a situation that both companies are trying desperately to sort out, despite you'res and other peoples perception, I should know, I work in the same office as the guys who run Western Route!

 

As Brain says, the Reading to Didcot section is being concentrated on to allow testing to take place, do you really thing that trying to install wires and then test them between Paddington and Reading is a good idea? Considering the problems that you are describing, it would have the exact opposite effect that you have described, as one failed test unit is okay, but that plus a signalling problem could be even more of a disaster.

 

Simon

Edited December 10, 2014 by St. Simon

[Xerces Fobe2]

According to a source in Network Ops of NR, the testing is meant to be start next year, although I'm not sure when next year,

 

 

Oh, give over Nigel! I can understand you're frustration, but sometimes both FGW and Network Rail have problems that impact on running trains and it's no good ranting on about a situation that both companies are trying desperately to sort out, despite you'res and other peoples perception, I should no, I work in the same office as the guys who run Western Route!

 

As Brain says, the Reading to Didcot section is being concentrated on to allow testing to take place, do you really thing that trying to install wires and then test them between Paddington and Reading is a good idea? Considering the problems that you are describing, it would have the exact opposite effect that you have described, as one failed test unit is okay, but that plus a signalling problem could be even more of a disaster.

 

Simon

 

Simon what not look it from customers/passengers/victims! perspective? Firstly I have no issue with FGW  and made clear in my post as they did the best they can in circumstances beyond their control! Network Rail have been somewhat mute about the situation and left FGW and Heathrow Express face it out to their customers'  The problems with signalling occur most weeks over the last few months and problems started last Saturday and now appear to have been resolved having just looked at the FGW website. Network Rail is not a fully commercial company and is funded by the taxpayer and passenger and therefore is not subject to the real commercial world, which would not tolerate this sort service and you we would replaced by another supplier that could;d do the job by now! When in the real World and you plan any project you allow for incidents problems have disaster recovery plans which include communication plans to all your Stakeholders to ensure you have process to manage situations as when they occur. Network Rail appears not have this in place with the GWML Electrification Project which is also running late.

 

As your career progress Simon you may well find that you will work in a fully commercial organisation and experience at first hand how major issues are managed and how the end user/customer is King. How annoyed would you feel if your mobile phone did not 5 days across a wide geographical area and this would be a very rare occurrence.  So please feel free to have a pop at me but also at any team meetings that you may attend at Network Rail please speak out and try and make a difference!

Edited December 11, 2014 by Xerces Fobe2

[WCML100]

Little of topic but...

 

Regarding Acton Town Signalling problems it has happened several time in the last 2 months (about 5 or 6 times!) This is something TFL/London Underground need to sort out ASAP as this is unacceptable. 

 

Regarding the GWML, i travel on it to and from work most weekdays and there seems to be that my train is late most days as well as problems either between West Drayton and slough or at Acton (both signal failure of late). I have had to board my suburban class train 3 or 4 times on the fast mainlines more so than would be expected in times of recent. Although regarding expansion of stock running on suburbans, i think any class with added capacity would be needed even if it is a stop - gap until the new CrossRail trains arrive as the standard of over crowding is appalling. Several times my train is late in the mornings, this is scheduled to be 5 or 6 cars long (3+2 or 3+3) but there have been times when this is a 2 car and is impossible to board making me late for work...

 

Not sure what stock would be available as a potential stop - gap though? I do realise this will never happen and I will just have to wait until CrossRail starts for extra capacity. 

 

although I do feel the position and current status of the GWML isn't quite as severe or bad as it is being made out by some users on this thread? 

 

I do also agree with the point that the SWT seem to get the idea that 10 cars are needed - by no means 2 cars....

[Edwin_m]

The suburban services on the Paddington line have always been shorter than on most other lines - even in NSE days they ordered 2/3-car DMUs which often ran singly.  I wonder if the current increase is people moving to the catchment of stations on the route in anticipation of the Crossrail service starting in a few years. 

[Glorious NSE]

Simon what not look it from customers/passengers/victims! perspective? Firstly I have no issue with FGW  and made clear in my post as they did the best they can in circumstances beyond their control! Network Rail have been somewhat mute about the situation and left FGW and Heathrow Express face it out to their customers'  The problems with signalling occur most weeks over the last few months and problems started last Saturday and now appear to have been resolved having just looked at the FGW website. Network Rail is not a fully commercial company and is funded by the taxpayer and passenger and therefore is not subject to the real commercial world, which would not tolerate this sort service and you we would replaced by another supplier that could;d do the job by now! When in the real World and you plan any project you allow for incidents problems have disaster recovery plans which include communication plans to all your Stakeholders to ensure you have process to manage situations as when they occur. Network Rail appears not have this in place with the GWML Electrification Project which is also running late.

 

As your career progress Simon you may well find that you will work in a fully commercial organisation and experience at first hand how major issues are managed and how the end user/customer is King. How you annoyed would you feel if your mobile phone did not 5 days across a wide geographical area and this would be a very rare occurrence.  So please feel free to have a pop at me but also at any team meetings that you may attend at Network Rail please speak out and try and make a difference!

For better or worse, Network Rail's customer is First Great Western, not you or I - so the only customer NR technically have to keep informed is FGW, having said that have been doing increasingly better at dealing with this kind of thing to my eye, with much better working with TOCs and more info going out direct to users over methods such as Twitter that allow *anyone* to follow and feed back directly.

 

And whilst I agree that **mostly** commercial businesses deal well with customer information, I disagree that **all** do (just search for horror stories of folk who have spent calendar months trying to get phone lines installed for example - i'm dealing with one now which is a two month old request!) I would also suggest that the majority of commercial companies are not dealing with anything like the complexity involved in the UK rail network. I can cite you several other examples of companies that I personally have observed where real-world businesses just can't handle giving out good quality customer information - occasionally even to the extent of not communicating their normal everyday activities well, let alone disruption. Ironically several of those are communications companies - but they would include many industiries!

[Karhedron]

The suburban services on the Paddington line have always been shorter than on most other lines - even in NSE days they ordered 2/3-car DMUs which often ran singly. I wonder if the current increase is people moving to the catchment of stations on the route in anticipation of the Crossrail service starting in a few years.

This is a puzzler. I grew up in Maidenhead and travelled to Paddington a lot during most of the 90s. My recollection from the times suggests that 2/3 car turbos (replacing the older 3-car 117s) were usually adequate but I am not sure why the GWML should have had such a light requirement for commuter traffic.

 

Granted, until the introduction of the turbos, the Oxford/Banbury and Newbury/Bedwyn services were usually in the hands of loco-hauled stock so 6-8 coach trains were not unusual. I don't know how much weight these took off the big stopping points like Slough but they stopped in 1992 IIRC.

 

Is the Thames Valley less populous than other commuter routes or does its relative affluence mean that the area had higher levels of car ownership back when modern service plans were being formed? If so, rising fuel prices over the last 10 years may have made the trains more appealing relatively speaking and driven increased usage.

[Xerces Fobe2]

For better or worse, Network Rail's customer is First Great Western, not you or I - so the only customer NR technically have to keep informed is FGW, having said that have been doing increasingly better at dealing with this kind of thing to my eye, with much better working with TOCs and more info going out direct to users over methods such as Twitter that allow *anyone* to follow and feed back directly.

 

And whilst I agree that **mostly** commercial businesses deal well with customer information, I disagree that **all** do (just search for horror stories of folk who have spent calendar months trying to get phone lines installed for example - i'm dealing with one now which is a two month old request!) I would also suggest that the majority of commercial companies are not dealing with anything like the complexity involved in the UK rail network. I can cite you several other examples of companies that I personally have observed where real-world businesses just can't handle giving out good quality customer information - occasionally even to the extent of not communicating their normal everyday activities well, let alone disruption. Ironically several of those are communications companies - but they would include many industiries!

 

Having worked ay many well known large companies I can say that most were excellent at sorting issues out and communicating with their customers however I can think of one exception that ended up with a slot on the BBC Watchdog programme many years ago!  I recently worked for a very well known Telco and still use their services and certainly are very dog in  friendly loyal way however to counter that I have been are customer sun coloured Telco whose poor service continues to fill lots of webspace on daily basis!

[Xerces Fobe2]

This is a puzzler. I grew up in Maidenhead and travelled to Paddington a lot during most of the 90s. My recollection from the times suggests that 2/3 car turbos (replacing the older 3-car 117s) were usually adequate but I am not sure why the GWML should have had such a light requirement for commuter traffic.

 

Granted, until the introduction of the turbos, the Oxford/Banbury and Newbury/Bedwyn services were usually in the hands of loco-hauled stock so 6-8 coach trains were not unusual. I don't know how much weight these took off the big stopping points like Slough but they stopped in 1992 IIRC.

 

Is the Thames Valley less populous than other commuter routes or does its relative affluence mean that the area had higher levels of car ownership back when modern service plans were being formed? If so, rising fuel prices over the last 10 years may have made the trains more appealing relatively speaking and driven increased usage.

The GWML  in the  Thames Valley demand has grown for numerous reasons the M4 being congested, the congestion charge and the cost of parking on London add to that the increase in population which is well chronicled away from this Forum. When the first generation and loco hauled trains were replaced there were less overall coaches however the Turbos were faster on acceleration, the coaches longer and there was arguably more standing space. FGW is using HST's on the Oxford service and has added more seats however they have been unable to keep up with demand and remember Mark Hopwood  was grabbing what DEMU he could such as the prototype Cl;ass 150's however the cupboard is bare at the moment until the EMU's come on stream which is still a few years away. A lot is being done to address the issues however it has been a long wait and there is a lot a catching up to do lets just hope the money does not run out again!  Network Rail whilst being better than Railtrack  (not difficult) is still nowhere near the halcyon days of the BRB and the West Coast electrification which was a well executed project. Underpinning a lot of the issues is the lack of school leavers going in technical jobs and therefore knowledge is being lost and staff are having to learn the skills they require from scratch  and mistakes will happen and we have seen on repeatedly on the GWML

[adanapress]

For the Thames Valley banches,   might the Overhead/Battery unit currently on test (and just having hit 100mph I gather)  be part of a solution?

[ess1uk]

Never seen a hedgehog in the signal box, plenty of rodents though.

 

 

So do the railway companies. I signed-up to get delay updates from Great Northern, and there has been one on each of the last three days. However, they seem to be getting more surreal:

 

- Monday was "broken down train on your route may result in ... delays".

 

- Tuesday was "a trespass incident may result in delays".

 

- And today was "an earlier problem with the station lighting may result in delays after leaving".

 

How does today's excuse make any sort of sense?

 

Still, at least it can't now be long until there are delays due to a hedgehog in the signal box.

 

Paul

[lmsforever]

On the BBCWales website today the Welsh Transport Minister only makes one statement about priorities for rail ,to speed up south to north services nothing about valleys and mainline electrification.It seems that speeding up services for the AM,s to get home after appearing at the Cardiff debating  house is the most important thing for them and having watched them I think they need all the help they can get.Also tonight on South Today an NR person stated that the signal failures were caused by control boxes moved during electrification work ,that's not good for the rest of the route so can we expect more of the same?

[Xerces Fobe2]

On the BBCWales website today the Welsh Transport Minister only makes one statement about priorities for rail ,to speed up south to north services nothing about valleys and mainline electrification.It seems that speeding up services for the AM,s to get home after appearing at the Cardiff debating  house is the most important thing for them and having watched them I think they need all the help they can get.Also tonight on South Today an NR person stated that the signal failures were caused by control boxes moved during electrification work ,that's not good for the rest of the route so can we expect more of the same?

The moving of control boxs issue has occurred time and time again at Slough, Maidenhead and Hayes. As I stated earlier on this thread that some of people do not have skills to do to do the job. If proper change management was in place together with a backout plan in case of issues and when problems occured they could be resolved in a much shorter timescale. Three consecutive days for one issue would not be tolerated in a purely private company as heavy penalties or cancellation of the contract would be order of the day!

[corneliuslundie]

Regarding commuting from the Thames valley, a few years ago I did an analysis of the membership of the organisation I worked for regarding their homes and workplaces to see where we should hold regional meetings, by postal code. What was revealing was the differences between the segments around London. The South West (mainly served by Waterloo) had the highest proportion of members working in London. As you moved round anticlockwise the proportion became less, with more commuting across country rather than to London. The lowest proportion of commuting to London by far was the West, into Paddington. These were only a small segment of the social spectrum (mostly in well paid jobs) but I suspect that they were representative of the population.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Regarding commuting from the Thames valley, a few years ago I did an analysis of the membership of the organisation I worked for regarding their homes and workplaces to see where we should hold regional meetings, by postal code. What was revealing was the differences between the segments around London. The South West (mainly served by Waterloo) had the highest proportion of members working in London. As you moved round anticlockwise the proportion became less, with more commuting across country rather than to London. The lowest proportion of commuting to London by far was the West, into Paddington. These were only a small segment of the social spectrum (mostly in well paid jobs) but I suspect that they were representative of the population.

It could be that issues with the rail services are having effect of more likely more people working from home. If like me your are in IT it quite often does not matter where you are; not great for team building though!

[Christopher125]

For the Thames Valley banches,   might the Overhead/Battery unit currently on test (and just having hit 100mph I gather)  be part of a solution?

I don't know if most services could spend long enough under the wires to recharge sufficiently, and they are all being electrified anyway bar the Greenford branch.

 

Chris

[Xerces Fobe2]

I don't know if most services could spend long enough under the wires to recharge sufficiently, and they are all being electrified anyway bar the Greenford branch.Chris

How about a charging section of OHLE at the branch termini?

[Christopher125]

How about a charging section of OHLE at the branch termini?

I doubt an isolated section of 25kv would be practical or worthwhile, especially if the branch is to be electrified anyway.

 

Chris

Edited December 12, 2014 by Christopher125

[The Stationmaster]

Ah, Monday - what a shambles.  We set off with time planned for a reasonably slack connection into Cross Country at Reading but what happened was a tale of inadequate information.  We duly awaited the 10.03 from Twyford shown on screen as 'On Time' - until 10.02 when it suddenly became 25 minutes late and became the second train behind the cancelled 10.12.  So someone somewhere wasn't very good at all at updating CIS (in fact if they had been informing 'passengers' it would have had a more accurate description - crikey, I'm beginning to sound like Nigel!).

 

But far worse was the totally inadequate explanation pumped out on the long-line PA by metal mickey - which just kept repeating 'signalling problems', not a  hint of where (which could have altered our journey plans drastically if we had been told) or what the results were and exactly what was affected, especially as we were passed by a seemingly endless procession of trains on the Up & Down Mains. 

 

Eventually the 10.03 arrived with its degree of lateness constantly changing as it was auto-updated (although quite why that hadn't happened until 10.02 remained a mystery - 26 minutes late off Twyford and on tenterhooks for a connection at Reading compounded by a 2 minute delay in opening the doors on arrival at Reading, fortunately the Cross Country connection was also a little late and we caught it, only to be told by the Guard there was a signalling failure at Ealing Broadway and Cross Country were honouring FGW tickets.  And that was the first time we found out roughly what was happening and the first time anyone was told about tickets being honoured (not that it affected us of course).

 

So FGW did not do at all well on information about what was wrong (maybe NR didn't tell them?) and that left passengers potentially in the dark as the problem could have been anywhere between Oxford and Paddington judging by its obvious impact on suburban services - and knowing where it was could have affected our plans.

 

Secondly our local 'paper said yesterday - possibly inaccurately - that the problems were due to a damaged data link at Hanwell.  Now that might or might not be correct (it's reportedly what FGW told them) but I cannot work out how damage to a data link, which according to standard design criteria should be duplicated, can leave the Mains fully operational and the Reliefs in trouble.  So was that information correct or was the problem limited to a couple of locations on the Relief side?  Knowing the answer to that might not interest many travellers but not knowing what was happening where and the impact it was having could and would as there are various alternatives available.

 

So - again sounding a bit like Nigel - it was a case of a problem  (which with relatively new kit should be avoidable) but an even bigger shortcoming in not saying what and where it was and simply summarising the impact it was having.  That was 'Passenger Information System poor'  (And yes, I have been there, I have seen such things happen, I have had to deal with the impact on train services and get out information - even if only in summary form.  So I know what is involved and I know you can't necessarily give detailed train service information, but you can at least say what has happened and the effect it is having - and that did not happen.)

Edited December 12, 2014 by The Stationmaster

[chrisf]

I don't know what came over me a few months ago but I was in London on a Saturday with time to kill before the meeting which was the reason for my visit.  Have Travelcard, will travel, I mused.  At Paddington I discovered that the Greenford service, which is the only way of reaching Acton Main Line by rail unless you are a consignment of freight, had been discarded to allow those engaged in Crossrail-related buckets and spades free rein.  How, I pondered, was I to reach my objective?  Proceed by first available means to Ealing Broadway seemed like a plan.  When I got there no staff member could tell me whether or when a train would call at Acton Main Line.  The Central Line took me to North Acton but by this time I had given up the scene of my pre-teen spotting as a bad job.  Instead I headed for Willesden Junction on the 266 bus, thence to explore the North London line.

 

It is perhaps a good job that in terms of passenger traffic Acton Main Line is not the centre of the universe.  When Crossrail is finished there is a possibility that one will be able to board and alight there but how often?  Plenty of fun to come methinks.

 

Chris