Taskforce to study electrification in northern England

[DavidB-AU]

The Department for Transport is to establish a joint taskforce with infrastructure manager Network Rail to study options for further electrification in northern England.

The routes to be examined will include:

• Leeds - Harrogate - York;
• Selby - Hull;
• Sheffield - Leeds;
• Sheffield - Doncaster;
• East Coast Main Line - Middlesbrough;
• Sheffield - Manchester;
• Warrington - Chester;
• Crewe - Chester

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/taskforce-to-study-electrification-in-northern-england.html

[woodenhead]

Hope valley route is a fill in really so should be a no brainer.

 

Warrington and Crewe to Chester is interesting, prelude to North Wales?

[woodenhead]

Looks like Grand Central will be ordering some electric stock as well.

[APOLLO]

Wigan North Western to Bolton electrification announced yesterday definite.

 

Electrify the whole lot in the next 10-20 years I say.

 

Brit15

[SwissRailPassion]

Some of these are dangerously common sense. Has there been a coup at the DfT?

[Fat Controller]

Some of these are dangerously common sense. Has there been a coup at the DfT?

When's the General Election?

[Friar Tuck]

Rotherham to Chesterfield would be a good fill in too, given the MML is to be electrified anyway? Always useful for diversions.

[DavidB-AU]

Looks like Grand Central will be ordering some electric stock as well.

Arriva is already planning to order new Pendos for the Alliance Rail/GNER/GNWR open access services.

 

Cheers

David

[Peter Kazmierczak]

What about Sheffield - Manchester via Wo......... Nah, better say nowt.

[JeffP]

What about Doncaster-Hull, and, one of the busiest freight routes in the country, Doncaster-Imminghsam/Grimsby/Cleehtorpes via Scunthorpe?

[woodenhead]

Because the wires are not for freight, going to take a bit more wiring before the likes of DB and Freightliner invest in new electrics I think

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I remember from my undergraduate days (when Thousands still departed from Paddington, Deltics from KX and Peaks from St Pan) reading something from Transport 2000. They were lobbying for a network-wide electrification scheme.<br /><br />If these present proposals (and others) come to fruition, will there be an increased demand for electric freight locos with a consequent fall in demand for diesels? Will there be a rise in electro-diesels? Is this the beginning of the end for heavy haul diesels?

[newbryford]

Because the wires are not for freight, going to take a bit more wiring before the likes of DB and Freightliner invest in new electrics I think

 

It'll be interesting to see how successful (or otherwise) the new Class 88's for DRS with their so-called "last mile" capability affects future electrification plans.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Glorious NSE]

Because the wires are not for freight, going to take a bit more wiring before the likes of DB and Freightliner invest in new electrics I think

 

We are getting "a bit more wiring" though - in fact, quite a lot more wiring, something akin to a rolling programme - the announcements last time included routes aimed at freight, and with a first TOC now having an electric order in as Mick says, plus technology having moved on to allow a more efficient machine than the 'legacy' electric fleets, my gut feeling is a tipping point will come at some point.

[ForestPines]

With current service patterns there's no real point wiring the Hope Valley unless you go all the way to Cleethorpes.

 

Hull's a relatively minor freight hub compared to Immingham, but I can see a flaw in electrifying the Humber freight: a large proportion of it is imported coal and suchlike. How easy would it to be to wire up the various power stations, and other similar installations like Scunthorpe Foreign Ore Terminal, and who would be responsible for paying for it?

[JeffP]

The above is true, and I hadn't really thought of that, I have to say.

[Edwin_m]

Freight orientated electrification would probably focus on intermodal, as this is a growing commodity and coincides more with passenger routes.  Targeting these flows would suggest electrification of routes such as Nuneaton-Birmingham (picking up Hams Hall and Lawley Street), eventually on to Felixstowe, Erewash Valley and Sheffield-Doncaster/Wakefield seeing as the northen end of the "Electric Spine" doesn't actually access any freight terminals. 

[woodenhead]

Apart from the strategic plan to convert the route to Southampton to OHLE are there any electrification schemes that are aimed at freight?

 

Is the government supporting/encouraging this rolling programme of electrification because it is a stimulus in recession or because it believes railways wholeheartedly or because there was about to be a massive surplus of southern based electric units which would have been sat idle following the completion of Crossrail. Probably a bit of everything.

 

I would expect the government to continue with promoting the rolling programme on the passenger side, the freight companies being profitable unsubsidised enterprises need to lobby for their own programme as they do with pathing and gauge enhancement. Interesting that DRS have gone for the 88, is this indirect government action to test the electro-diesel concept on heavy freight and perhaps stimulate a programme across the freight companies transforming the UK like EW&S did with the 66?

 

Looking at Alliance Rail's proposals on Pendolino procurement, is this why Alsthom did those tests up the ECML, was it to help with developing open access rather than to test an alternative to IEP which at that point the government was pretty committed to. Clearly the latest schemes being investigated are going to allow open access services from Hull and the Northeast to be electric in a few years.

 

It's all looking good, but we will as enthusiasts have to soon accept our railways may become even quieter, who knows we might even miss ying ying.

 

Of course if I'm right then this suggests joined up thinking at a government level, that cannot be right can it?

[woodenhead]

With current service patterns there's no real point wiring the Hope Valley unless you go all the way to Cleethorpes.

I think the thinking behind Hope Valley will be accelerating the stopping services and allowing services to Anglia to be electric though I think it is sensible to consider all users of a line and TPE I am sure would prefer to have all electric though there is still the line to Barrow to cover unless it was dropped from the TPE Network which I suspect could happen.

[The Stationmaster]

With current service patterns there's no real point wiring the Hope Valley unless you go all the way to Cleethorpes.

 

Hull's a relatively minor freight hub compared to Immingham, but I can see a flaw in electrifying the Humber freight: a large proportion of it is imported coal and suchlike. How easy would it to be to wire up the various power stations, and other similar installations like Scunthorpe Foreign Ore Terminal, and who would be responsible for paying for it?

 

Wiring power stations would only ever be likely to happen if it results in a reduction of costs for the power station operators.  Their sole interest is the cost of fuel per kilowatt generated and if they have to alter infrastructure, including immunising their signalling systems and engaging in major staff safety training programmes they would look for the whole of those costs to be paid off within off within a few years.  Some stations could cope with loco changes without too much hassle but that would probably increase costs so is going to be unattractive.

[Les Bird]

Electrification to Middlesbrough would make sense. Otherwise, if the line between York and Manchester is electrified, the Transpennine service from Middlesbrough to Manchester would either require a change of train at York or dual powered trains.

[lmsforever]

The wiring is going up from Oxford to MK and Bedford so that will fill a gap but Aylesbury MK will still be diesel as will Marylebone Oxford unless Chiltern put up the wires to Birmingham this would help with freight using dual power locos.But its good news that the idea of electrification is being discussed ,who will build the new EMU,s for these services?

[woodenhead]

Doesn't the Evergreen programme cover the eventual wiring for electric services from London to Birmingham?

[DavidB-AU]

The wiring is going up from Oxford to MK and Bedford so that will fill a gap but Aylesbury MK will still be diesel as will Marylebone Oxford unless Chiltern put up the wires to Birmingham

There was a plan for this. That's one of the reasons W&S went for LHCS. If the wires went up they could switch to using a 90 on one end.

 

Cheers

David

[Legend]

Has York - Scarborough already been announced? If not I would have thought it would have made list as many Trans Pennine journeys seem to originate here