rgmichel Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 You are not telling us anything that we do not already know. The chuffs don't sync and the number of cylinders printed on the box is wrong. Its also wrong on the P2 and Tornado boxes. The solutions to your problem are simple. I could not possibly disagree with you, as our prior discussion in this thread has shown. I do think that your suggestions should be widely known, and that buyers should be fully aware of the need to do the types of upgrades you describe in order to achieve more reasonable sound equipped locomotives. There is a sense that the videos are useful to illustrate the problem, so that unaware buyers can become aware for each locomotive on sale with TTS sound. I have tried to make clips that illustrate this problem clearly, and I am sorry I am not telling you anything new. Hornby is not making a mistake, you say "wrong", in the way it is printing its words on the box. It really is putting 4-cylinder sound into all steam locomotives so far. Hence, Hornby is actually being "honest" in its representation of what it is selling. This is particularly true for those locomotives in which Hornby's description of the prototype on the box does mention the correct number of cylinders. Such information is often "borrowed" from public sources anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 I could not possibly disagree with you, as our prior discussion in this thread has shown. I do think that your suggestions should be widely known, and that buyers should be fully aware of the need to do the types of upgrades you describe in order to achieve more reasonable sound equipped locomotives. There is a sense that the videos are useful to illustrate the problem, so that unaware buyers can become aware for each locomotive on sale with TTS sound. I have tried to make clips that illustrate this problem clearly, and I am sorry I am not telling you anything new. Hornby is not making a mistake, you say "wrong", in the way it is printing its words on the box. It really is putting 4-cylinder sound into almost every locomotive, whether or not the prototype was 2 cylinder, 3 cylinder or 4 cylinder. Hence, Hornby is actually being "honest" in its representation of what it is selling. This is particularly true for those locomotives in which Hornby's description of the prototype on the box does mention the correct number of cylinders. Such information is often "borrowed" from public sources anyway. Bob, Lol. Did your Dynamis come with a warning that it was not capable of reading CVs? Or that it could not operate alone without 'line of sight' to the loco? Of course not. It's unrealistic to imagine that any manufacturer would point out weaknesses in their products. Your assessment of the situation is incorrect. The conflicting evidence is confusing. The printed word always conveys more weight than it sometime deserves. Someone at Hornby got their descriptions wrong. All the TTS locos issued so far have been 3 cylinder designs, so your claim that Hornby are putting 4 cylinder sound into 2, 3 and 4 cylinder locos can only be speculation. What difference, in sync terms, would you expect between 2 and 4 cylinder exhaust beats? The 4 cylinder remarks on these boxes are incorrect. If you actually listen to the sequence of sounds critically, it is obvious that in each cycle there are 6 different 'chuff' sounds before repetition. Ergo, three cylinders. Indeed you have already identified six separate sounds in your earlier post. The total lack of sync is, I fully agree, a regretful compromise. But you should not overlook that these are budget decoders aimed at a different demographic than those of us who prefer to pay more to get more, in terms of sounds, operations and realism. The lack of sync is disguising the 3 cylinder nature of the actual sounds. It's all a bit of a muddle, really. At the beginning of this thread, I speculated that popularising DCC sound would generally be a good thing overall. Genuine choice is healthy. Finally, I thank you (no sarcasm intended) for highlighting the deficiencies in the Hornby offering as it confirms that 'you get what you pay for'. I hope more people will turn to and appreciate my sound projects as a result. Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmichel Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 All the TTS locos issued so far have been 3 cylinder designs, so your claim that Hornby are putting 4 cylinder sound into 2, 3 and 4 cylinder locos can only be speculation. To set the record straight on the TTS locos I have: There are two panels on the Hornby (P2 and Duke of Gloucester) boxes. One is a description of the prototype, which Hornby cribs from someplace. Its usually the same as Wikipedia, which probably cites the original source. This usually gives the correct description of the number of cylinders. The second panel describes the model, which says that Hornby has put 4-cylinder sounds into these locos. This 4-cylinder sound applies to the Gadwall loco too, although it is not said on the box that it is 4-cylinder sounds; it said on the dcc sound leaflet inside. I have corrected my comment quoted above, which you correctly ascribed to speculation. My apologies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmichel Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Did your Dynamis come with a warning that it was not capable of reading CVs? Or that it could not operate alone without 'line of sight' to the loco? Of course not. It's unrealistic to imagine that any manufacturer would point out weaknesses in their products. IR systems are line of sight. Those of us who remember the introduction of IR remote controls for home electornics have been aware of this for several decades. Also, Dynamis Pro is a different beast from the basic box, indeed the latest version is basically the Pro version. I am not sure this topic is related to the TTS sound we are discussing. So, I will leave it at that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmichel Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 What difference, in sync terms, would you expect between 2 and 4 cylinder exhaust beats? As far as I know there is no discernible difference. Do you think there is a difference? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 ................. As far as I know there is no discernible difference. Do you think there is a difference? ........................ not if you don't have stereo .................... ........................ ............................ let me think - TTS, Full versions? ........... Nope - still neither there ......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmichel Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 ................. ........................ not if you don't have stereo .................... ........................ ............................ let me think - TTS, Full versions? ........... Nope - still neither there ......... Actually, quite funny. Although, I think someone would have to jump through quite a number of hoops to appreciate the significance of the joke. Maybe a new thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Simple equation .... .................................................... really .................... Actually, quite funny. Although, I think someone would have to jump through quite a number of hoops to appreciate the significance of the joke. Maybe a new thread? ....... 2P = 4S / R ........... ....... 4P = 8S / R ........... ....... Given 1 x R = 4 x 1/4S, it follows that 8S / R must each have 4S concurrent ... and ... ....... Since 1 x P delivers 1 x S in each direction, it also follows that the concurrent 4S must occur at the opposing Ps .................... Opposing Ps implies a P on each side - ergo - Ps in stereo [quite how they would fit a Decoder and Speakers is another story! ] all very simple and straightforward ...................... unless when running in those severe austerity times, when the Manager insists the train will run even when totally Piston broke ....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmichel Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Well, I guess I am learning all the time. I bought one of the Class 40 TTS sound locos, D232 Empress of Canada, just to see how TTS sound feels in a diesel-electric model loco. I posted a YouTube video clip to show the results: http://youtu.be/d_tt7GKfaE8 I know it is old hat to some, but I did find this locomotive to be quite impressive. There are no synchronization issues as there are with TTS sound steam locos, so there is not much to complain about. It is quite noticeable that you can't play more than two sound channels at the same time. So, with the engine running, you can't play more than one other sound. It will just shut down if you try to play a third sound. I did not find this to be a big deal. The range of sounds available to play is quite substantial, and the manual for the sound chip is very detailed, well written, and informative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Not correct - "if you try to play a third sound it will just shut down". The channel 1 background sound plays all the time it is on except when being modified by either automatic throttle graduation effects (up or down), manual notch up or down, manual idle or manual thrash. If a channel 2 sound is also played the channel 1 sound is still there. The channel 2 sound may be toggled (switch me on then switch me off) or it may be momentary (press me and I play through and stop). If you have a toggled sound running on channel 2 and select another channel 2 sound then this next selection cuts in and plays until it either plays out (momentary sound) or it is switched off (toggled sound) whereupon the original channel 2 sound selection will cut back in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmichel Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Not correct - "if you try to play a third sound it will just shut down". Thank you for enlarging on the effects of this. I don't disagree with anything you say. I am pleased you noted my observation that the manual is excellent, because you took the trouble to provide a precis of parts of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-e Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Looks like the dates for the TTS Class 47 have slipped they were due 24/03 now 12/05/2015 http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/railroad-br-class-47-with-tts-sound.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassey jones Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Another model to keep away from ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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