Michael Delamar Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 I wont be using c&l out the box track, but c&l chairs on concrete sleepers which need to be glued, I need around 600 sleepers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Ive finally made up all the chairs needed for the rest of the flatbottom track, 200 of them which doesnt seem a lot but has taken a few nights to fold up, the actual laying of them shouldnt take long now,the bending them up is the long winded bit, the bit to lay is on a slight curve before it meets a point, I wouldnt like to do a point in flatbottom. I can now cut my fingernails. shot of the made up chairs with some spares. the slight curve which they will be laid on. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 This is another of the signals that Steve will be building, I have quite a few good photos of this signal, note how the CLC lower quadrant post it replaced was kept, it was like this in all the shots I have seen, presumably because the CLC post had the telephone attached to it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 I am sketching, drawing and working out how the shed was constructed. July 1961. Walton-on-the-Hill railway shed, Liverpool. (s325) by JDRogers.Liverpool, on Flickr the relationship between how the smoke chutes, roof and chimneys are still being worked out. The shed had spray concrete applied in 1952 when it was reduced from 6 to 4 roads, it also recieved new brick smoke chimneys, what I cannot understand is that in all of the shots I have of the shed after closure the shed building stayed the same but the brick smoke chimneys disappeared. Maybe they were removed by BR in 63? maybe pilfered by theives? I have got shots of inside the shed after closure and the pits have brick rubble in them. I even have shots looking up at the roof from inside, but not one in the area of were a chimney was. Even in some of the 60s shots some of the chimneys have brick missing like the shot above exposing what I think may be the wooden structure inside them left behind? maybe they wernt built very well and bricks were starting to fall apart. what id like to know is the style of the shed, was this use of brick chimneys used on other sheds and also the style of the shed in general. also found something about the turntable in a book which I missed, it was hand operated and could turn a 04 but was very tight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) fortunately the other side had exposed brick, so it is easy to work out the dimensions using brick plasticard. the triangular roof structure I believe was timber. the new wall was constructed from concrete blocks, which seem to be standard 16x8x8 blocks, counting and measuring it seems to add up and I have shots of it being demolished which show the style of block. so I know the dimensions however for this part however I cannot find any plasticard sheet for concrete blocks, is there any available? I also cannot fathom why they left the beams sticking out like this, on the internal shots they appear to be timber, on the outside it looks like they were sprayed with concrete as in some shots the concrete is peeling off. I can only think it was like this in case they decided to refit the shed with 6 covered roads. I also have a shot which claims to be Walton with no roof at all, but some things dont add up, I dont think they totally re roofed the shed, and this looks like it was a shed that had more than 6 roads, I would also think 1952 would be a little late for these locos to still have LNER livery, not unknown but rare id think. also if it was Walton the large water tower should be visible at the rear. Edited February 16, 2014 by Michael Delamar 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Count the "northlights" for that last shot, I don't think they add up. But also remember that the extra 2 roads were "added" and the extra structure may well not have been to the same standard as the original 4. Also the structure of the northlights appears different and of brick. I believe the "beams" were left protruding like that (on a number of sheds) for integrity of the roof. Internally they may well have been used to support heavy lifting gear. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairburn Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Count the "northlights" for that last shot, I don't think they add up. But also remember that the extra 2 roads were "added" and the extra structure may well not have been to the same standard as the original 4. Also the structure of the northlights appears different and of brick. I believe the "beams" were left protruding like that (on a number of sheds) for integrity of the roof. Internally they may well have been used to support heavy lifting gear. Was going to suggest the same, Kenton From looking at the beams across the width of the shed, they will have had a substantial bearing within the outer walls, to then reduce the width to 4-roads, the internal columns supporting the beams effectively become the 'new' outer wall and most likely offer a much a slimmer bearing for the beams. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) yes I dont think that shot with the roof off is Walton. Its all becoming clearer as I do more drawings and measurements. In one of the demolition shots you can see that the large beams are cut in a tongue and groove style to allow the triangular roof pieces to rest in them. there was 9 rows of these triangular pieces along the length of the shed, 15i on each row so I will be getting those cut on the laser cutter by Mike, the length of the shed is 41 inches and would prefer having these triangles in one length rather than individually. will also have the northlights done on the cutter too. then the smokechutes were hung from the beams, may do these on the cutter too. I assume that these chutes when the timber was in place the top of the chutes matched the profile of the roof rather than a horizontal channel? I now have a set of model size drawings to work from, important to do this now as it also affects the trackplan, making sure the lines inside the shed match the templot as the lines are not all equally spaced, the 2 centre roads are a lot closer to each other, presumably to give more space for between the 2 centre roads and the outer roads. inside the shed in 1950 before the shed was changed from 6 to 4 roads. Edited February 17, 2014 by Michael Delamar 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 yes I dont think that shot with the roof off is Walton. Its all becoming clearer as I do more drawings and measurements. In one of the demolition shots you can see that the large beams are cut in a tongue and groove style to allow the triangular roof pieces to rest in them. there was 9 rows of these triangular pieces along the length of the shed, 15i on each row so I will be getting those cut on the laser cutter by Mike, the length of the shed is 41 inches and would prefer having these triangles in one length rather than individually. will also have the northlights done on the cutter too. then the smokechutes were hung from the beams, may do these on the cutter too. I assume that these chutes when the timber was in place the top of the chutes matched the profile of the roof rather than a horizontal channel? I now have a set of model size drawings to work from, important to do this now as it also affects the trackplan, making sure the lines inside the shed match the templot as the lines are not all equally spaced, the 2 centre roads are a lot closer to each other, presumably to give more space for between the 2 centre roads and the outer roads. hgfds.JPG inside the shed in 1950 before the shed was changed from 6 to 4 roads. Walton-on-the_Hill_Engine_Shed_geograph-2380624-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg yes I dont think that shot with the roof off is Walton. Its all becoming clearer as I do more drawings and measurements. In one of the demolition shots you can see that the large beams are cut in a tongue and groove style to allow the triangular roof pieces to rest in them. there was 9 rows of these triangular pieces along the length of the shed, 15i on each row so I will be getting those cut on the laser cutter by Mike, the length of the shed is 41 inches and would prefer having these triangles in one length rather than individually. will also have the northlights done on the cutter too. then the smokechutes were hung from the beams, may do these on the cutter too. I assume that these chutes when the timber was in place the top of the chutes matched the profile of the roof rather than a horizontal channel? I now have a set of model size drawings to work from, important to do this now as it also affects the trackplan, making sure the lines inside the shed match the templot as the lines are not all equally spaced, the 2 centre roads are a lot closer to each other, presumably to give more space for between the 2 centre roads and the outer roads. hgfds.JPG inside the shed in 1950 before the shed was changed from 6 to 4 roads. Walton-on-the_Hill_Engine_Shed_geograph-2380624-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg Interesting-looking loco. in the foreground. Is it ex-H&B? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 yes its a Hull & Barnsley J75 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) According to the RCTS series 8365 built 3/1908 as HBR 151, renumbered 3151 in NER stock. 1924 LNER number 2532 1946 LNER number 8365 Allocated BR number 68365 but withdrawn 1/49 as the last of it's class of 16 Edited February 17, 2014 by MartinWales Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 According to the RCTS series 8365 built 3/1908 as HBR 151, renumbered 3151 in NER stock. 1924 LNER number 2532 1946 LNER number 8365 Allocated BR number 68365 but withdrawn 1/49 as the last of it's class of 16 And according to Yeadon, shedded at Walton-on-the-Hill from 3/12/1940 until withdrawal. She was well travelled, after leaving Hull in 1925, she went to Retford, Immingham, Doncaster and Gorton before finally to Walton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2014 This is another of the signals that Steve will be building, I have quite a few good photos of this signal, note how the CLC lower quadrant post it replaced was kept, it was like this in all the shots I have seen, presumably because the CLC post had the telephone attached to it. untitleddx.JPG I doubt it had a telephone, the new signal has a diamond so there was a berth track circuit, and the cupboards are on separate posts. It does look to have a pair of telegraph wires on it. Maybe they kept it rather than put up a new pole. If you look closely there is a cable down the post which doesn't go below the cupboards. I also suspect that it may be a concrete post, looks to be crumbling were the arm would have been fitted. Do you have any more shots of it? Eric 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 I would think the crumbling concrete was the most likely cause for it being replaced. even when the shed closed and the line was singled it was still there.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2014 No scrap value in concrete posts, although nowadays we would probably be obliged to crush it for aggregate and take out the reinforcing bars. They were also a $0d to take down in the days before "Chompers" came into use. I'm surprised at the number of what look like lighting or telegraph poles left in the last picture. The area must have gone smokeless by then. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) A CLC signal somewhere showing signs of the concrete crumbling Mike Turner passed me the drawings tonight that he has found in the archives and I am very happy,over 50 architects drawings of everything, all the roof trusses, smoke chutes, pits, mess buildings, basically enough plans to build the real thing again never mind a model, many individual drawings of each part, those triangular parts of the roof were reincforced concrete and even has drawings for all the reinforcing rods for inside them.even a couple of drawings of the rebuilt coaling stage which was built from bullhead rail and boiler tube Edited February 19, 2014 by Michael Delamar 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2014 A CLC signal somewhere showing signs of the concrete crumbling clc signal.JPG Mike Turner passed me the drawings tonight that he has found in the archives and I am very happy,over 50 architects drawings of everything, all the roof trusses, smoke chutes, pits, mess buildings, basically enough plans to build the real thing again never mind a model, many individual drawings of each part, those triangular parts of the roof were reincforced concrete and even has drawings for all the reinforcing rods for inside them.even a couple of drawings of the rebuilt coaling stage which was built from bullhead rail and boiler tube No excuse now then Michael? Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 yes Im itching to get started on something,I need to stock up on supplies at the next show. bending the rails for the coaling stage will be fun. I was going to make a start on the water tower but then noticed the brick and dont recognise the style of brick bond, it had 5 courses of headders with one stretcher. I dont think this is available by any of the plasticard makers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2014 Hi Michael, nice brickwork there. It looks like the reverse of Common Bond with 6th Course Header. That has 5 courses of stretchers and one course of headers. Do you know the thickness of the wall? Could it be possible that it is effectively 3 bricks thick with a course of stretchers and a course of headers laid side-by-side? The thicker part of the wall lower down appears to be more conventional. Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 I think the only way Id be able to do that brick if no plasticard is available would be to have it laser cut mdf, Im practicing with cad drawing at the moment for the roof of the shed building so may do it that way. No idea of the thickness of brick on the water tower but I do know it was hollow inside, I also know someone who has been swimming in the tank at one time! Rice Lane flyover construction, Liverpool, 1965. by JDRogers.Liverpool, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 I havent been to well of late to do anything physical but have been working on cad work. Mike said he would do this for me on the laser cutter but it would take him too long to draw himself so he has told me to have a go myself and Im getting used to it and enjoying it, the original drawings were a godsend, I scaled all the angles right down to .1 of a mm. Ive drawn the triangular roof parts, these were concrete, the latteral beams were a T shape and also concrete with the top of the T being the roof and gutter, but I cant do that so have made it so that when it is constructed it will be strong and I will add that top part later, this will all be 2mm thick, the latteral beams doubled up to 4mm, I may draw the legs on with these aswel so they are strong but will take up space on the drawing. It will be either plastic or mdf, Im leaning towards plastic as the rest will be constructed with plastic such as plasticard and clear plastic for the top windows. I also have drawings for the smoke chutes and chimneys, they were not brick as I first thought but wooden batterns, these follow the same shape so should not be too hard to draw up aswel but will want the gap in the batterns engraved. I will make the front windows from clear plastic sheet then I will attach the drawn up window frames laser cut from thin artist board, I will also be doing the windows for the shed offices this way I have drawings for these buildings aswel. and for the coaling stage, I have scaled the dimensions so I can make a wooden template for bending the rails that it was built from on. Ive also printed out the templot plan so Chris can make a start on the pointwork. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Hoping to go and get the wood soon, although there is no hurry for that as cant set it up fully until April anyway. Im still doing research and CAD work for the shed and other buildings including windows for the Westminster bank which was above the tunnel but demolished when the flyover was built, I assume being a bank is why it has no rear windows when seen in the shots of the tunnel. Im hoping to pick up materials to start on these buildings at the Nottingham or Ally Pally shows in the coming weeks. thinking about the turntable, there was a CLC one at Skelton Junction. There was a Walton to Wrexham freight which used to run round and turn the loco here, I wonder if it was the same style as the one at Walton, what Im wondering moreso is the pit, was it a bricklined one like this or a shallow one. Skelton Junction, Timperley, 92054, summer 1966 , during the school holiday, I suspect, I was not the photographer. by nico ditch, on Flickr 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 The replacement 1952 smoke chute and chimney was tongue and groove boarding, I assume the reason some boarding is missing in some of the later shots is the force of a loco exhaust under it when setting off from inside the shed? Whatever the reason I am drawing this on CAD, some of the measurements written on the drawings are a little unclear, I can work them out by using other dimensions elsewhere but I wonder if anyone can work out what size T&G is written on the drawings circled red. I am debating on doing this in brass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted March 4, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 4, 2014 I would say the bottom one 'Trough Lining'(?) is 3/4" so the top T&G could be as well. One reason for missing boards could be that they were constantly going between hot/cold/wet/dry, wouldn't do even the best wood any favours, in earlier days they would have been repaired and replaced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) so its only giving us the thickness it was the width I was after but it looks close to 5" given the 5x1" batten nearby. Edited March 4, 2014 by Michael Delamar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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