Hornby announce J15

[orford]

OK Wiseguy Coachman (good job I like your stuff!).  I did actually say in my post that I hadn't tackled the wheels/chassis yet. I do have to work sometimes too (wink). 

 

For wheels and chassis, it needs the airbrush firing up, so I won't be doing that until all three locos are done to this stage (which so far, is purely with artist's pastels, which I grind up myself from sticks purchased from the local art shop and apply dry with a soft brush - then fix with an overall spray of Testor's Dull Cote. Much better than commercial weathering powders - in my opinion).

 

And yes - I will post some pics, etc. of how I do the tarpaulin rails ....just as soon as I get them.done, which will not be for a few days yet. Keep watching.

 

- Don

Edited February 23, 2015 by orford

[orford]

Off-topic? (sort-of) for Coachman...................

 

Stick one of these behind it and the not-yet-weathered wheels aren't so obvious !

 

 

 

 

[coachmann]

Now I do like that coach, in fact I love it. It has the appearance of one of those rare teak gems that were occasionally to be found by the mid 1950s. Apologies for missing the reference to not painting the wheels tyres. 

Edited February 23, 2015 by coachmann

[Market65]

Hi.orford. I also really do like that Gresley BT. It is just so real, and that weathering is the very thing which I also like to do on my models as well. I listen in to old pop songs whilst weathering - whether it helps or not is another matter! Looking forward to more about your J15's.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[orford]

Thanks for the kind comments, all.  I never think that I am a particularly competent modeller, so comments like that are very much appreciated and serve to keep me at it!  The coach is essentially just a standard Hornby model which I re-worked a bit.

 

The tarpaulin bars on the J15's are proving interesting (to say the least). My three locos (65447, 65457 & 65389) all had completely different tarpaulin arrangements during the period I am modelling. 65477 had just the standard round bar supported by two twisted flat bar uprights. 65389 also had these but in addition had an additional planked wooden back-board with two somewhat crude small square windows immediately behind the original supports, and for most of it's BR existence the originals were noticeably distorted, leaning/bent in a forwards direction, resulting in a particularly distinctive shape when the tarpaulin was draped over - and this is very obvious on most photos of this loco in BR days. Finally, 65457 had a full-blown proper steel 'half-cab' during my period, similar to those fitted to the Colne Valley engines but with round windows like those on the loco cab.

 

All three will be modelled in due course and I think I have now got my head around how to do each one. I will post progress reports on this in due course.

 

As a matter of interest, the Hornby model 65445 also carried the planked wooden back-board in addition to the standard supports at some stages of it's life, although this was gone by 1961. Conversely, 65478 carried one until the end - although this engine also had fluted connecting rods, so cannot accurately be portrayed using the Hornby model.

 

The preserved example - 65462 - also carried a proper half-cab on it's tender from the mid-1950's onwards, although this was both taller and a slightly different shape than that on 65457 ..........whilst those modellers baulking at the thought of making tarpaulin bars at all may wish to consider taking the easy option of renumbering their engines to either 65453, or 65444 - both of which examples were entirely bereft of any such frivolities whatsoever!

 

Something else which came to light whilst researching all of this is that modellers may wish to avoid numbers 65475 and 65476. These also carried proper half-cabs on the tenders (albeit this time with square windows) but were also fitted with trip-cock gear at the lower left hand (facing) corner of the front buffer beam and on the other side of the engine towards the rear of the tenders, for working London Transport's Central Line. And this was very visually distinctive!

 

Finally whilst I am rambling aimlessly along, I have now had my own examples for a week and have only just noticed that Hornby have (correctly) provided balance-weights on the driving wheels of the Westinghouse-fitted models and (equally correctly) no balance weights on the wheels of the steam-brake-only models. Another "Well done" to them for that detail. 
 

Edited February 24, 2015 by orford

[Pint of Adnams]

Still unable to 'reply with quote' so...

 

To take the last point in the preceding post, the gratitude is more probably due to Lyn Brooks of the GERS but also to Simon Kohler for realising that Hornby management could and should do better than they did when ignoring expert information about the Gresley vestibuled (gangwayed) carriages and their obviously incorrect turnunder. The first step in this process was to engage with Mike Trice to avoid similar errors with the non-vestibuled (non-gangwayed) stock and the benefit of so doing was clearly proven.

 

With regard to the tender cabs or back sheets the situation is even more complex than Don describes. Unlike the Class E4s that had cab sidesheets fitted as works modifications for a specific line, the J15s were adapted on an ad-hoc basis, and usually from local shed resources. Three principal points to bear in mind are:

 

1. The half cabs came from various sources and to differing designs, but one common source was cannabalised F4/5 cab rear spectacle plates. Rectangular windows could suggest the use of similar parts from an F6. As I recall this example had a taller and different roof profile than the J15 cab, very noticeable in photographs;

2. Tenders were sometimes exchanged when locomotives were reallocated, so that back cabs remained available for those workings that required them. Alternatively the back cabs could be swapped from tender to tender;

3. The 'sleeper-built' versions were readily dismantled and rebuilt on another tender.

 

Since most if not all of this occurred at local shed or sub-sheds, the engine record cards will not necessarily hold the information and photographic evidence is the only source, and only reliable at the time any photograph was taken.

 

Certainly scope here either for Hornby to produce further variants or for the after-market detailing parts specialists to fill the gaps.

[orford]

Try as I might, I can't 'Reply with quote' either. It simply doesn't work................What are we doing wrong?

 

All of the above points are absolutely correct but I didn't want to confuse the issue too much in this thread.  However, there was also an 'official' Stratford Works Drawing of a half cab specifically for the J15 which I suspect this was drawn up specifically for the Colne engines. I have a copy of it. I'm pretty sure it is in the GER Society range of drawings too but as I am no longer a member I can't check.

 

Don

Edited February 24, 2015 by orford

[teaky]

Try as I might, I can't 'Reply with quote' either. It simply doesn't work................What are we doing wrong?

 

All of the above points are absolutely correct but I didn't want to confuse the issue too much in this thread.  However, there was also an 'official' Stratford Works Drawing of a half cab specifically for the J15 which I suspect this was drawn up specifically for the Colne engines. I have a copy of it. I'm pretty sure it is in the GER Society range of drawings too but as I am no longer a member I can't check.

 

Don

Seems OK now.

[orford]

Well, doesn't work for me at all.  Never has.

[coachmann]

I couldn't copy & paste but I've found if RMweb "doesn't work", close it down and reopen it then all's fine. Might not work on everyones PC though.

Edited February 24, 2015 by coachmann

[it's-er]

Hornby put some rather lovely footage of the LNER version of their J15 in action on their Facebook page yesterday, at

https://www.facebook.com/officialhornby

 

It's less than a minute, but is great fun and rather charming!

 

John

[teaky]

Well, doesn't work for me at all.  Never has.

Hmmm.  Well it has never not worked for me.

 

Perhaps you should try Coachmann's suggestion and if that doesn't work report it.

[Colin_McLeod]

Oxford, I wish you success with your detailling exploits and look forward to pictures in due course.

 

The variety of detail on different locomotives over time can be a nightmare.  One option I have heard of is to give the locomotive a fictional number (usually following the last numbered prototype  (as per Tornado)) then you can't be "wrong" in any of the detail variations.

[orford]

Well - Here's the first one with a tarpaulin bar - not perfect but about as good as I can get it in such a small scale.   Apologies for the various 'fluff' marks (still got to clean up once the glue has set properly).

 

incidentally, the prototype uprights are not 'handed', both twist in the same direction.

Edited February 24, 2015 by orford

[31A]

Looks good, Don - could I ask what you attached the uprights to on the tender - glued onto the front coal plate?

[orford]

The prototypes were riveted to the top of the tanks. I just drilled a very small snug-fit hole in the tank tops and glued them in. Won't show when it's dusted up a bit later.

[orford]

Here's progress so far on 65389 - the one which had the wonky forward-leaning supports and additional wooden back plate during my 'period'.  Obviously some way to go on this one yet, including weathering and making/fitting the actual tarpaulin. 

 

For the tarpaulin itself I am planning to use 5 thou thick brass 'shim', which can be distressed, shaped appropriately and then soldered up so that it can just be dropped into place.

 

This one is being done based on numerous photographs of the prototype in the early 1950's - including the huge coal mound.  Seems to me pretty pointless having rear windows when they coaled it like this!  in fact, the window openings were invariably entirely covered by the tarpaulin draped over the front of the board/supports anyway and the driver/fireman simply peered around the sides when travelling backwards, also confirmed on several photographs.

Edited February 24, 2015 by orford

[31A]

Very neat, Don - thanks!  I must admit I was pondering whether (for robustness) to make a sheet rail from a solid piece of plastikard (or metal), entirely hidden by the tarpaulin draped over it - some pictures seem to show this.  For the sheet itself I was considering masking tape, or tissue soaked in pva.

[orford]

Yes - absolutely you could go this route if you are going to have it covered. Keep it simple where you can. Me - I'm just a masochist....I've done all that work on 65389 and I just covered it all up but little bits of what's underneath do show through from some angles. Pictures coming in a minute or two.....

[orford]

OK - so now having done all that work with supports and back-board on 65389 I have now covered it up with a large tarpaulin !  ....but little bits of the backboard underneath show through and on the other side little bits of both the back board and the original supports are visible, so it all has to be there.

 

This enormous tarpaulin is absolutely correct for this particular loco, which spent much of it's latter days fussing around on the Snape & Aldeburgh branches in Suffolk.  There are numerous photographs showing it just like this, including the huge coal load.

 

The tarpaulin is 5-thou brass shim, suitably distressed, wrapped around the supports and then soldered up to make a firm, permanent fixture.

 

 

 

 

[hornbyandbf3fan]

I think I'll cover mine with a tarpaulin, looks a bit too complicated for me. You've done a brilliant job though orford and I'll be trying to emulate your efforts best I can

[micklner]

How are getting it around curves?  Maybe the photos ? the lettering and numbers look crazed . 

[Bon Accord]

Here's progress so far on 65389 - the one which had the wonky forward-leaning supports and additional wooden back plate during my 'period'.  Obviously some way to go on this one yet, including weathering and making/fitting the actual tarpaulin. 

 

For the tarpaulin itself I am planning to use 5 thou thick brass 'shim', which can be distressed, shaped appropriately and then soldered up so that it can just be dropped into place.

 

This one is being done based on numerous photographs of the prototype in the early 1950's - including the huge coal mound.  Seems to me pretty pointless having rear windows when they coaled it like this!  in fact, the window openings were invariably entirely covered by the tarpaulin draped over the front of the board/supports anyway and the driver/fireman simply peered around the sides when travelling backwards, also confirmed on several photographs.

 

Very nice Don. For removing the tender crest did you stick to the usual T cut/cotton bud or another method? Being the latest Hornby paintjob/printing I'm somewhat curious as to the best method to use.

[orford]

Personally Jim, I've never liked T-Cut. Tried it once but never had much success with it at all, found it very hard to get the printing off.

 

I have always used methylated spirits (the purple stuff) just dabbed on with a cotton bud and the printed on lettering will come off in less than a minute. without removing the original paintwork underneath.

 

Mick - the lettering only looks like that because I have deliberately made it look old and worn, as if the loco is in need of an overhaul. When you first apply the transfers they are absolutely fine, without the worn effect .....and going round curves is no problem on the close coupling setting on the drawbar provided that the curves on your layout are 30" radius or larger. However, many OO scale modellers do have curves sharper than this and if this is the case you would not be able to couple the loco and tender as closely as this.

 

Don

[micklner]

I presume the Tarp isn't fixed to the cab roof. How did you manage the crazed look ? very effective.