APOLLO Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Why have they removed it ?, I thought it was the new Solid State track circuitry!!! Brit 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Going back to the original post, will anyone be brought to book for this? What about compensation for those forced to make far longer journeys? What would you think appropriate? Life imprisonment? Flogging? Firing? Or a lecture on doing the job properly and closer supervision until the person has proved this was a one-off mistake? Sorry, but us outside immediately looking for a scapegoat to blame (rather than thinking, someone made a mistake, but hopefully they'll learn from it), is perhaps why we have so many occasions where the people involved immediately look to shift or deflect blame ... hence: Because we now live in a "no blame culture" society this probably means nobody will be held responsible. Does anybody else think this why these acts of complete ineptitude happen? Not me - because things have always gone wrong. It's not a new phenomenon. I'd say that there are fewer serious errors in engineering/architecture, at least in this country, than you might have expected 200-100 years ago. Any casual reading of the histories of building Britain's railways would contain plenty of people killed by runaways, rock falls, explosives going off early, tunnel roof collapses ... And strangely, not so many years ago everyone on forums used to complain about "blame culture", where someone had to be found responsible, and preferably prosecuted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 What would you think appropriate? Life imprisonment? Flogging? Firing? Or a lecture on doing the job properly and closer supervision until the person has proved this was a one-off mistake? All of these seem good to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2014 So all is back to normal and the TfL website currently shows that meaningless term 'Good Service' for the Victoria Line. According to BBC London yesterday evening the concrete was poured by contractors working on soem sort of 'improvement' work at Victoria station - without mentioning whose Victoria station - and all was promised to eb well by this morning. Much to my surprise all is indeed well this morning which suggests either an extremely impressive clean up or that there just happens to be a duplicate equipment room and all that was needed was a changeover (or maybe the 'concrete' wasn't quite what it was thought to be?). All in all I suspect someone is going to receive a rather large bill for both the mess in the equipment room and the mess created in yesterday's train service - then their lawyers will argue it wasn't their fault and so the legal battle will commence and the biggest beneficiaries will, as usual, be the legal trade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 The control room this moring https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/426639510072750080/photo/1 https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/426639328618766336/photo/1 Any chance of the photos NOT linked to twitter, facebook or other social media please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Was it concrete or bentonite? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Any chance of the photos NOT linked to twitter, facebook or other social media please. There's not much people can do if that's where the photos are. Unfortunately social media sites are blocked at a lot of workplaces. The answer is to be the person in charge of the web filter However http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25873252 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 This forum should apply for a schools grant I learn something new on here everyday... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonite Thanks Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 There's a better selection of comments on the District Dave forum. The relay room was reportedly at Pimlico. the Vi line is reported to be back to normal this morning. linky: http://districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/23278/victoria-line-concrete-issue?page=3&scrollTo=381207 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Going back to the original post, will anyone be brought to book for this? What about compensation for those forced to make far longer journeys? Jeff, as an ex employee of London Transport the chances of that are about as likely as Mr Cameron inviting Arthur Scargill to be an advisor to the government on Industrial Relations procedures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 How they removed the concrete http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10594718/Why-sugar-helped-remove-Victoria-Line-concrete-flood.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Was it concrete or bentonite? Looked like Chicken Tonight to me !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 There is one of these signalling rooms on each station site. On the Victoria line, automatic operation has always been used, though the signalling system has recently been upgraded, whilst retaining much of the original infrastructure. In simple terms, the trains control the signals, which control the trains, which control the signals....etc etc. There is no easy access to rooms for everyone. All personnel have to be certified to enter secure rooms, and sign out keys, especially for SER's (signal rooms). From what I've heard (don't shoot the messenger if I'm wrong though) it was Victoria and the SER there also controls either side *(which includes Pimlico). There is massive reconstruction going on at Victoria Underground station, also much building work in the area at ground level. The concrete (or possibly more accurately cement?) was being poured in conjuction with escalator work, and seeped into the SER. As with any signalling, no chances were taken and the line was suspended, but was fully operational when I came in this morning, amazing! Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Rather than concrete or bentonite, the mix in the photos looked like a very liquid grout; the sort of stuff that would be used to fill small cracks behind tunnel segments and similar. it's possible, depending on the pressure it was being applied under, that it may have even disturbed some rendering on the inside of the room that it entered; in that case, they might not have been aware of a crack until it was too late. They did well to sort it out that quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammy Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 How they removed the concrete http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10594718/Why-sugar-helped-remove-Victoria-Line-concrete-flood.html Would you like one lump or two Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Singpoint Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Delays due to signalling problems caused by the routes taking longer to set............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 How they removed the concrete http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10594718/Why-sugar-helped-remove-Victoria-Line-concrete-flood.html Quick thinking on someones part. I bet the local Starbucks and Costa are wondering what happened to all their little bags of sugar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 Rather than concrete or bentonite, the mix in the photos looked like a very liquid grout; the sort of stuff that would be used to fill small cracks behind tunnel segments and similar. it's possible, depending on the pressure it was being applied under, that it may have even disturbed some rendering on the inside of the room that it entered; in that case, they might not have been aware of a crack until it was too late. They did well to sort it out that quickly. Lots of the fast setting and self levelling mixes use small particles of aggregate instead of 20mm ballast, as it binds to the admixes more easily. But when it cures it's the devils own job to take even a small part of it apart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouser Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 What would you think appropriate? Life imprisonment? Flogging? Firing? Or a lecture on doing the job properly and closer supervision until the person has proved this was a one-off mistake? Sorry, but us outside immediately looking for a scapegoat to blame (rather than thinking, someone made a mistake, but hopefully they'll learn from it), is perhaps why we have so many occasions where the people involved immediately look to shift or deflect blame ... hence: Not me - because things have always gone wrong. It's not a new phenomenon. I'd say that there are fewer serious errors in engineering/architecture, at least in this country, than you might have expected 200-100 years ago. Any casual reading of the histories of building Britain's railways would contain plenty of people killed by runaways, rock falls, explosives going off early, tunnel roof collapses ... And strangely, not so many years ago everyone on forums used to complain about "blame culture", where someone had to be found responsible, and preferably prosecuted. Well that does sound very reasonable and modern. I am an industrial electrican and in 46 years in the game I have yet to see an instance of somebody learning from not getting told they have made a mistake, and being brought to book for it, including me. Quoting things like flogging simply takes the discussion to absurb levels to try and make a person with different views seem ridiculous. I am tired of hearing spokespersons saying that lessons will be learned following some major cock up. Most of the lessons they refair to have been learnt and forgotten or not passed on. A point to consider is this, if this room full of control equipment, can suddenly and unexpectantly fill with concrete. It can also suddenly fill with water. And nobody bothered to check, yes a firm never mind then should sort that out for the future! Instead of thinking about a "blame culture" try thinking about a responsibility culture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthnut Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Wow, a big pat of the back for the quick acting folk that cleared up that mess, an incredible piece of emergency remediation. I think quite a few people were bracing themselves for a hefty bit of disruption after that, so pretty incredible to get it back online so fast! Just shows the kind of pressures that even foamed concrete can exert on its containment. I guess they had no idea that it was just a wall between the void being filled and the SER. TTFN, Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 And no-one has access to that SER unless they have a specific reason to be going in there. Presumably the first that was known of the incident was funny things happening at the Control Centre up in Northumberland Park depot? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 A point to consider is this, if this room full of control equipment, can suddenly and unexpectantly fill with concrete. It can also suddenly fill with water. I know how to stop if filling with water - fill it with concrete! Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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