Hornby Mk2e coaches

[Brian Kirby]

Absolutely correct Alun. The Mk2E stock was built with friction damper bogies and didn't get hydraulic dampers until modded in the 2000s (see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68714-mk2-air-conditioned-coaches-detail-differences/?p=1019022).That's another mistake by Hornby.

 

The thing is though, will Bachmann give their Mk2F stock friction dampers in error (as their B4 bogies already have that type)?

 

Not necessarily a foolish mistake by Hornby, just an unfortunate one, both manufacturers have done their homework on D/E/F air-cons. A little birdy told me that Hornby really wanted to produce Mk2F (more widespread, more liveries, more of 'em), but were beaten to them by Bachmann, who were encouraged to switch to Mk2F and announced them first. So it's likely that Hornby switched to 2E, to avoid a sales clash, but had perhaps already worked on the bogies intended for their not-to-be 2Fs. 

 

                                                                                  Cheers, Brian.

[NickL2008]

Im not so sure about these coaches, they dont look much different to the Ex-Airfix ones, although I think id have to see one of these in person

NL

[Bob Reid]

"Simon Say's" as much Brian - http://www.Hornby.com/news/simonsays/double-take/- Hence the reason the BSO's got the 2F interior arrangement.... Though no big deal when the guard's compartment is lost in space.....

[Bob Reid]

Im not so sure about these coaches, they dont look much different to the Ex-Airfix ones, although I think id have to see one of these in person

 

NL

Well worth a look Nick. For all the issues highlighted they are leaps and bounds ahead of the Airfix models....

Edited November 22, 2014 by Bob-65b

[andyman7]

From the Rails photo of the Swallow liveried coaches it looks like the orange door lights are printed on and not a tooling variation which means they look very poor and another disappointment.

 

This is the reverse of the Mk3s where these are moulded on and simply overpainted with body colour on the earlier liveried versions which didn't carry central door locking. However it's easier to add that relief to a printed door light on the Mk2e than try to cleanly remove it and patch paint a Mk3 so all is not lost in that respect.

 

But for a newly tooled model in 2014 I'm not sure this is good enough (and that's putting the many more serious issues highlighted in this thread aside for the moment).

They are newly tooled but clearly aimed at a price point below superdetailed models. Given that Bachmann are doing the Mk2Fs, it's no bad thing that the Hornby ones slot into the £20-£30 range depending on whether you go for Railroad, main range or lights, as the Bachmann ones will be somewhere north of this price level (and we will have high expectations of close coupling cams, seperate detail etc for those ones).

Having now picked up a few more of the Mk2Es I really rather like them. And who would have thought that one day us 70s modellers could pick from RTR Mk2D, Mk2E or Mk2F?

[Brian Kirby]

"Simon Say's" as much Brian - http://www.Hornby.com/news/simonsays/double-take/- Hence the reason the BSO's got the 2F interior arrangement.... Though no big deal when the guard's compartment is lost in space.....

 

Thanks for finding that and the link Bob, i don't feel so guilty of "letting on" now, plus it confirms the story. Having just read Simon's account (i wish he'd do more paragraphs!), hadn't seen it before, it also adds credence to the theory of the B4 bogies (with hydraulic dampers) being intended for the erstwhile Mk2F model. Will Hornby use these bogies on their Mk1s (?), they won't be 100% kosher, but they should look the part. If Hornby sell enough 2Es, they could still produce their own 2F with a few tweaks, it all depends on what Bachmann do?  

 

                                                                                                 Cheers, Brian. 

[Brian Kirby]

You're right Bob, i've just now taken the body off my one Hornby 2E BSO (RR), the interior is completely void of a guard's compartment, he/she will have to stand up all the way! BTW, have you noticed the curious oversize cut-out in the floor at the far end of the luggage area, are you thinking what i'm thinking? Wiring for end lights on another type/might-have-been maybe?  (four letters starting with 'D'?)   BK 

[uk_pm]

Having followed this thread with interest, I must confess to some concern when the ever-efficient Harvey (The Hobby Shop, Faversham) emailed me to say that my 13 Mk 2Es were ready for delivery.  Had I ordered a duff model; should I have soldiered on with my Airfix 2Ds? 

 

I need not have worried.  I do not have the encyclopaedic knowledge of some on here, nor the modelling ability to create perfection.  So, to my eyes, the new coaches are a massive improvement on their predessors.  They look like what they are meant to be.  They do have a little bit of chassis on show below the exquisite tumblehome, but it is impossible to see from ordinary viewing angles, and does not trouble me when I view from track height.  I should not have to modify the lighting bars - though they don't flicker and the capacitor is forgiving of dirty trackwork.  And I'm not sure who stole the overhead warning flashes on the first class coaches.  Close coupling would have been nice too.  But aside from those gripes, I am really pleased with them.

 

Here are a couple I have modified (and a pic of one beside a Bachmann 2B for comparison).  11 more to go!

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

[James Makin]

I saw some of the Intercity Swallow liveried coaches (the 1st and brake) yesterday at Warley on Hereford Model Centre's stand at £21, livery application looked pretty good (red stripe didn't appear to suffer from show-through like the latest Inter-City mk3s) and very smart looking glazing. Underframe as on the above version, moulded detailing intricate and nicely done.

 

I didn't buy any on the spot at the show and then saw they'd sold out before lunchtime, so catch them while you can!

 

Brian - great work on the coaches above, inspirational - not just moaning but actually fixing the coaches and showing us how, legend!

[Brian Kirby]

Hi there UK PM,

    I like the paint job on the interiors, very smart, there's another job for me to do. Two little pedantic points, i believe the 2E First Open would have gingery brown

seats (sort of mid-brown/tan with black lines or spots on in reality), but i could be wrong, black seats are more for 2D compartments, the 2Fs had the bright orange seats like on Mk3s. Second ever so petty petty point, is your other coach is not a 2B, it's a 2A BFK, but don't worry they all look much the same, i got one wrong the other day (2C FK/FO - should have gone to Specsavers). The lighting looks better than i expected, i've got a few with lights coming by post as an experiment, i'm more enthusiastic now! Keep up the good work. Orange curtains look good too.

 

                                                           Cheers, Brian.

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks James,

      I just have to repeat the conversion on all my others! The later Inter-City/Raspberry Ripple 2Es do look smart, but far too modern for an old fart like me. My latest mod on the blue/greys is raising the grey panel to reduce the blue stripe, pics to come later when i've cracked it. Must find my tin of Mushroom/fawn paint for the gangways, might end up using household Magnolia!

 

                                                                                 Cheers, Brian.

[uk_pm]

Hi there UK PM,

    I like the paint job on the interiors, very smart, there's another job for me to do. Two little pedantic points, i believe the 2E First Open would have gingery brown

seats (sort of mid-brown/tan with black lines or spots on in reality), but i could be wrong, black seats are more for 2D compartments, the 2Fs had the bright orange seats like on Mk3s. Second ever so petty petty point, is your other coach is not a 2B, it's a 2A BFK, but don't worry they all look much the same, i got one wrong the other day (2C FK/FO - should have gone to Specsavers). The lighting looks better than i expected, i've got a few with lights coming by post as an experiment, i'm more enthusiastic now! Keep up the good work. Orange curtains look good too.

 

                                                           Cheers, Brian.

Hi Brian

 

Thanks for your comments; yours was the encycolpaedic knowledge to which I referred in my first post!  My apparant faux pas on the first class interior is very frustrating. I remember the gaudy orange interior decor, but was guided by a picture which appears to show an FO with the grey check moquette, and dark curtains in the 2E section of Michael Harris' book on Mark 2 coaches.  I also remember seeing that scheme, but whether it was in a Mk 2E, I just don't know.  The internet is a wonderful resource, but there is a severe shortage of decent colour photographs of mundane things (like the inerior of poassenger coaches and DMUs) from the 1970s and early 80s.

 

I'm afraid I like coach lighting.  My current fleet is lit and I just love night-time operating sessions (I can turn off the lights, and the train room disappears, transporting me back to the late 1970s).  The Hornby lights have a huge great capacitor which prevents flicker and is forgiving during running.  However, the bar is too short, so it only really lights the middle of the coach.  I have added additional LEDs to give light throughout the passenger compartment, but lighting the vestibules is eluding me at the moment.  

 

Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and expertise.  All very impressive. 

[Brian Kirby]

Hi again UK PM,

    I'd leave the black for now, there were so many overlaps and inconsistencies, we'll probably find a pic of one like that sooner or later. The orange curtains weren't universal either, even on some Mk2s, i can't remember all the variations. Only the other night, i was checking with fellow RMwebber Mark 54, about various interior schemes.      BK

[ifitlooksright]

Having followed this thread with interest, I must confess to some concern when the ever-efficient Harvey (The Hobby Shop, Faversham) emailed me to say that my 13 Mk 2Es were ready for delivery.  Had I ordered a duff model; should I have soldiered on with my Airfix 2Ds? 

 

I need not have worried.  I do not have the encyclopaedic knowledge of some on here, nor the modelling ability to create perfection.  So, to my eyes, the new coaches are a massive improvement on their predessors.  They look like what they are meant to be.  They do have a little bit of chassis on show below the exquisite tumblehome, but it is impossible to see from ordinary viewing angles, and does not trouble me when I view from track height.  I should not have to modify the lighting bars - though they don't flicker and the capacitor is forgiving of dirty trackwork.  And I'm not sure who stole the overhead warning flashes on the first class coaches.  Close coupling would have been nice too.  But aside from those gripes, I am really pleased with them.

 

Here are a couple I have modified (and a pic of one beside a Bachmann 2B for comparison).  11 more to go!

 

What do you think?

Did you alter the lighting bars? As they light up the end bay. Sorry I had a browsing malfunction. You already said you added extra light. Why are the vestibules causing you problems to light? 

I agree with everything you say about these models.

Edited November 23, 2014 by ifitlooksright

[kintbury jon]

Those lighted coaches do look nice.  I did have a good look at a Railroad version today at Warley and felt that the minor saving in price doesn't look like it's worth it.  From looking around the lighted coaches are only about £3 more than the standard ones which is making them a tempting proposition.  Trouble is they may look a bit daft mixed in with some non-lit coaches.  

 

Is there much drag on the axles of the lit coaches?  

[jonathan452]

Hi there UK PM,

    I like the paint job on the interiors, very smart, there's another job for me to do. Two little pedantic points, i believe the 2E First Open would have gingery brown

seats (sort of mid-brown/tan with black lines or spots on in reality), but i could be wrong, black seats are more for 2D compartments, the 2Fs had the bright orange seats like on Mk3s. Second ever so petty petty point, is your other coach is not a 2B, it's a 2A BFK, but don't worry they all look much the same, i got one wrong the other day (2C FK/FO - should have gone to Specsavers). The lighting looks better than i expected, i've got a few with lights coming by post as an experiment, i'm more enthusiastic now! Keep up the good work. Orange curtains look good too.

 

                                                           Cheers, Brian.

 

Hi Brian

 

Thanks for your comments; yours was the encycolpaedic knowledge to which I referred in my first post!  My apparant faux pas on the first class interior is very frustrating. I remember the gaudy orange interior decor, but was guided by a picture which appears to show an FO with the grey check moquette, and dark curtains in the 2E section of Michael Harris' book on Mark 2 coaches.  I also remember seeing that scheme, but whether it was in a Mk 2E, I just don't know.  The internet is a wonderful resource, but there is a severe shortage of decent colour photographs of mundane things (like the inerior of poassenger coaches and DMUs) from the 1970s and early 80s.

 

I'm afraid I like coach lighting.  My current fleet is lit and I just love night-time operating sessions (I can turn off the lights, and the train room disappears, transporting me back to the late 1970s).  The Hornby lights have a huge great capacitor which prevents flicker and is forgiving during running.  However, the bar is too short, so it only really lights the middle of the coach.  I have added additional LEDs to give light throughout the passenger compartment, but lighting the vestibules is eluding me at the moment.  

 

Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and expertise.  All very impressive. 

See picture in my post 181 - Page 8.

Edited November 23, 2014 by jonathan452

[Flood]

Saw two Hornby Mk2e coaches out of their boxes last night.

 

The underframe solebar effect looks strange but is correctable

The door windows are not too bad (these were Swallow liveried coaches)

The roof vents are not only a pathetic representation (even compared to the under-nourished Airfix ones) but the 1st class coach has the vents in the positions of a full 2nd class

The motor alternator unit is too small in diameter (and possibly in length) and again is not a patch on the Airfix one being similar to the Lima air-con version.

 

Just over £21.00 for a Railroad version (why buy the up-market one when you would have to repaint it) for a coach which is a brand new moulding but needs more alterations than the one it replaces.

 

I was asked last night if I would mind paying 20% more for a coach which had separate underframe mouldings....

 

the answer to all manufacturers is:

 

So long as the coach has a correct body and chassis - yes, I would pay 20% more for a coach (around £30-£35 preferably, £40 maximum)

 

 

What really riles me is the fact that who ever did the research for these models obviously could not be bothered to go and find some Mk2e stock to look at and take notice of. It is one thing that an individual is not as adept as another at performing a task, quite another thing that the effort is not even made to attempt to do a good job.

 

All in all I am very disappointed and Hornby will not be having any of my money for the foreseeable future.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Flood

[Waverley West]

Interesting to hear your views, Flood, coachaholic that you are.

 

I'd been looking forward to these coaches for some time, but I won't be splashing out on them either. The blue/grey livery is very poorly done to the point where it completely alters the look of the coaches and the solebar issue is a glaring error/compromise too far as far as I'm concerned (it makes the frame look like it hasn't been properly clipped into the body at first sight). Yes, both errors can be corrected by modifications and a respray but having already spent many hours respraying my old Airfix coaches and fitting Lazerglaze/etched frames, I'm not about to do it all again for what might turn out to be a pretty marginal improvement, if any.

 

I find it hard to understand how Hornby can have passed the lights in all their latest coaches as fit for purpose too.

 

To me, all the evidence seems to suggest that Hornby think they can get away with doing a substandard job and still sell coaches. I find that hard to believe, especially with Bachmann's Mk 2f's breathing down their necks, but I can't reach any other conclusion right now. It doesn't look like they'll be selling any to me anyway. It is such a shame, as I thought my Hornby purchase drought was about to end.

 

Fingers crossed that Bachmann do a good job.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Waverley West

[YK 50A]

What I do know is that Hornby rushed the Mk2Es out, not that it should be an excuse.  A very big bird (well a bloke actually) told me at the Ebor show last Easter that they intended to beat Bachmann to market.  He also said they would be a good product.  That's why Hornby never released some of their Mk2D variants, the blue/grey BSO springs to mind.  While I can't comment on the specifics as well as some, the Hornby Mk2Es don't look quite right to me.  My Airby ones don't look quite right either.  So why spend my money?  I'll wait and see if the Bachmann ones are worth the upgrade, that they should match my Mk2As will probably be the decider.

 

Alun

[Waverley West]

What I do know is that Hornby rushed the Mk2Es out, not that it should be an excuse.  A very big bird (well a bloke actually) told me at the Ebor show last Easter that they intended to beat Bachmann to market.  He also said they would be a good product.  That's why Hornby never released some of their Mk2D variants, the blue/grey BSO springs to mind. 

 

Interesting Alun. It goes some way to explaining the shortcomings. I wonder whether they will live to regret their rush in the long run.

[YK 50A]

Interesting Alun. It goes some way to explaining the shortcomings. I wonder whether they will live to regret their rush in the long run.

 

Well, they will be a good deal cheaper than the Bachmann's, but how many people in the RailRoad target market want a rake of blue/grey coaches?  I mean, if you buy the Limby Deltic, are you really going to care that the coaches have 100mph bogies, train air brakes and ETH?  I've never read an autopsy on the Hornby Mk1s, having made a significant investment in the Bachmann's, it wasn't relevant to me.  Are they similarly flawed?  They at least look the part at my local model shop.  NPCCS aside, the only Hornby coach (other than Airfix origin) in my collection is the Gresley buffet.  Lovely looking vehicle, but it is wrong too.

 

The eBay market for Airby Mk2s isn't saturated yet, so it's not just me that's hanging onto them.

 

It impresses me no end what the likes of Flood, Brian and Bob are capable of, but I would rather spend 35 quid on a model that looks like what it is supposed to than £25 on one that doesn't, particularly when I have something that will do the job already.

 

Alun

[sub39h]

Seen these in the flesh now. The Exec livery ones were on my shopping list for a while but the solebar just ruins it for me. Saving out for the Bachmann ones now.

[johny retro]

''Trouble is they may look a bit daft mixed in with some non-lit coaches.''

 

during the 80's i remember trains going past with several unlit coaches! haha.

[NickL2008]

Well took the plunge today, and decided to buy one of these coaches, W5871, in blue and grey.. initial impressions, are the components look more acceptable than the ex-airfix 2Ds. The door windows look a little too-wide, and its a shame, about the moulded handrails, and door grabs .. now how to figure out how to remove the glazing, for a repaint

NL

[MJI]

Well I was looking for a 2D tonight to detail with EE frames and glazing, and I first found a 2E TSO, cracked joins and failed filler.

 

This will be stripped down, repaired and EE LG detailed as the toilet window was wrecked.