Brian Kirby Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 We're off-topic, but i reckon it's a 2C First Open in your Tupton pic Robert. If it were a FK, this would be the corridor side, so where's the corridor handrail? Also, on this side i see three Roe-Vacs from the tank cover (FO), whereas four vents from the tank cover is FK. Can i see assorted junk in the windows(?), more likely FO for this side, plus the number looks short (M315x =FO), as opposed to M135xx =FK. It's still a tough call and they are difficult to distinguish from a distance, what do others think? Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 We're off-topic, but i reckon it's a 2C First Open in your Tupton pic Robert. If it were a FK, this would be the corridor side, so where's the corridor handrail? Also, on this side i see three Roe-Vacs from the tank cover (FO), whereas four vents from the tank cover is FK. Can i see assorted junk in the windows(?), more likely FO for this side, plus the number looks short (M315x =FO), as opposed to M135xx =FK. It's still a tough call and they are difficult to distinguish from a distance, what do others think? Cheers, Brian. Here is a close-up - I thought it was an FK but not totally sure: 45136_Tupton_Sheff-StP_30-8-79 by robertcwp, on Flickr Getting back on topic, the leading one behind the 47 looks like a 2d and the second one is a 2e: 47443_Tupton_Sheff-StP_30-8-79_crop by robertcwp, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Definitely an FK. You can just make out the 4th vent near to the tank cover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yes Marks right, it is a FK after all, i can see the 4th vent now with the blow-up, whereas before it was lost too near the tank cover. Surprisingly, the corridor handrail is still not apparent, but what looked like junk on tables to me before, now looks like the corridor partition. There was one vent less on a 2C FO roof, you can see the difference in these pics. Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Definitely an FK. You can just make out the 4th vent near to the tank cover. Looking at the carriage workings from c1980 several St Pancras-Sheffield sets were listed with a non-air-con FK at the London end. The Midland Main Line sets from the period are a modelling challenge as some sets had converted restaurant firsts and many were a mix of the air-con types. Most images show 2d firsts including the ones with Temperature Ltd air-con, like this set, which has what are probably 2e behind the buffet and 2c BFK. Buffet is an ex-RF: 45119_nrChesterfield_1710-Sheff-StP_27-8-81 by robertcwp, on Flickr Plate 60 in Profile of the Peaks shows the 1300 Sheffield-St Pancras on 6/5/78 formed FK 2d, FO 2e (or possibly Stones 2f), FO 2d (Temperature air-con), RBK, BSO, 3 TSO. No door bumps on either 2d. The 2e FO still has the bracket for the WR train destination boards, so it might be one transferred from the WR. Not sure if any 2f had the brackets. Edited November 20, 2014 by robertcwp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 For completeness, here are some pics showing the new Hornby 2E coupled to a Lima 2F. Not a great match, the Lima stands slightly too high, which would need floor surgery, despite having replacement 12mm. Bachmann wheels, i think Lima fitted 11.5mm wheels. BK 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Here is the new 2E coupled to an old Airfix 2D, this makes a much better match, with the roof line and buffers at roughly the same height. BK 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 20, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2014 At least Hornby have gone for hydraulic dampers instead of the friction type as fitted to various model manufacturers B4's. I wonder if they'll be available as spares? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) I may have done Lima a disservice in my Hornby 2E + Lima 2F comparison above, that Lima coach just wasn't sitting right. Here's another Lima conversion and this one lines up properly. Strangely, both Limas shown have the same bogies and wheels, i'll have to investigate? Note the contrast in shades of Rail Blue, the coach on the right has been repainted in either Railmatch/Replica or Precision, i can't remember which! BK Edited November 20, 2014 by Brian Kirby 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted November 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) We're off-topic, but i reckon it's a 2C First Open in your Tupton pic Robert. If it were a FK, this would be the corridor side, so where's the corridor handrail? Also, on this side i see three Roe-Vacs from the tank cover (FO), whereas four vents from the tank cover is FK. Can i see assorted junk in the windows(?), more likely FO for this side, plus the number looks short (M315x =FO), as opposed to M135xx =FK. It's still a tough call and they are difficult to distinguish from a distance, what do others think? Cheers, Brian. oops!!!!!! Edited November 20, 2014 by MJI Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted November 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2014 Lima never made a 2F BSO, so where did yours come from? Will be putting up pics of my BFK tomorrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 oops!!!!!! Yes my mistake, but in my defence guv, i didn't get to see the blow-up enlargement, until after Mark had cracked it. They are notoriously difficult to tell apart in a rake, look how similar the FK and FO model roofs are shown above. Robert blew it up even further for private consumption, and even then the handrail only starts to faintly appear. The 2F BSO model is one of two, using Airfix brake section built into a Lima 2F shell, built them over ten years ago, to match FOs and TSOs.. BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 At least Hornby have gone for hydraulic dampers instead of the friction type as fitted to various model manufacturers B4's. Hi Mick, I might have got this completely wrong, but as built, wasn't it just Mk2Fs that had B4s with hydraulic dampers? Obviously a good number were retrofitted later. Handy if you have a thing for air cons wearing Network Rail yellow! Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) At least Hornby have gone for hydraulic dampers instead of the friction type as fitted to various model manufacturers B4's. I wonder if they'll be available as spares? Cheers, Mick Hi Mick, I might have got this completely wrong, but as built, wasn't it just Mk2Fs that had B4s with hydraulic dampers? Obviously a good number were retrofitted later. Handy if you have a thing for air cons wearing Network Rail yellow! Alun Absolutely correct Alun. The Mk2E stock was built with friction damper bogies and didn't get hydraulic dampers until modded in the 2000s (see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68714-mk2-air-conditioned-coaches-detail-differences/?p=1019022).That's another mistake by Hornby. The thing is though, will Bachmann give their Mk2F stock friction dampers in error (as their B4 bogies already have that type)? Edited November 21, 2014 by Flood 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 21, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2014 Hi Mick, I might have got this completely wrong, but as built, wasn't it just Mk2Fs that had B4s with hydraulic dampers? Obviously a good number were retrofitted later. Handy if you have a thing for air cons wearing Network Rail yellow! Alun If any Hornby 2E's come my way, yes, they're probably destined to have an odd window filled in and a repaint into something brighter than blue/grey! So hydraulic dampers are good for me...... Cheers, Mick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I have to dispute that Mick - no one will produce anything brighter than Hornby's Rail Grey....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted November 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yes my mistake, but in my defence guv, i didn't get to see the blow-up enlargement, until after Mark had cracked it. They are notoriously difficult to tell apart in a rake, look how similar the FK and FO model roofs are shown above. Robert blew it up even further for private consumption, and even then the handrail only starts to faintly appear. The 2F BSO model is one of two, using Airfix brake section built into a Lima 2F shell, built them over ten years ago, to match FOs and TSOs.. BK I edited mine to oops because I thought I saw tables through the windows! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 ...That's another mistake by Hornby. The thing is though, will Bachmann give their Mk2F stock friction dampers in error (as their B4 bogies already have that type)? Quite! Bachmann aren't averse to footwear malfunctions, roughly half of my Mk1s have had bogie swaps, and if a B4 is close enough to a B5, then friction dampers might be close enough to hydraulic. I'm surprised I missed the dampers until Mick's post, I had a look to see whether Temperature or Stones fans had been replicated then moved on to watching what Brian, et al, were doing with the shells and sole bars. Scale wise, it's not my main area of interest any more, and having been blessed with 10 thumbs and no fingers, I will be keeping my Airby Mk2Ds for now. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifitlooksright Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Hornby R4610 BR blue & grey MK2E TSO tourist second open with lights Available at a box shifter near John Lennon airport now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Just heard my lighted 3 are on their way to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Pictures of two in Intercity livery on the Rails of Sheffield site: https://railsofsheffield.com/new-Hornby-coaches-JJJGP634.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) At least the executive light grey colour looks better than Hornby's usual (deep cream) shade. But the stripes look a little high Need to see it properly though. Maybe at the NEC tomorrow? Edited November 21, 2014 by cravensdmufan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yes my mistake, but in my defence guv, i didn't get to see the blow-up enlargement, until after Mark had cracked it. They are notoriously difficult to tell apart in a rake, look how similar the FK and FO model roofs are shown above. Robert blew it up even further for private consumption, and even then the handrail only starts to faintly appear. The 2F BSO model is one of two, using Airfix brake section built into a Lima 2F shell, built them over ten years ago, to match FOs and TSOs.. BK The larger version is on my Flickr site. Click on the image on this thread then when you reach the Flickr page (it might take two attempts before Yahoo will take you there) there is an arrow at the bottom right which will enable you to view all sizes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltic79 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) From the Rails photo of the Swallow liveried coaches it looks like the orange door lights are printed on and not a tooling variation which means they look very poor and another disappointment. This is the reverse of the Mk3s where these are moulded on and simply overpainted with body colour on the earlier liveried versions which didn't carry central door locking. However it's easier to add that relief to a printed door light on the Mk2e than try to cleanly remove it and patch paint a Mk3 so all is not lost in that respect. But for a newly tooled model in 2014 I'm not sure this is good enough (and that's putting the many more serious issues highlighted in this thread aside for the moment). Edited November 21, 2014 by deltic79 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny retro Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) the red and white stripes need to be slightly thicker in my opinion, so they come down a little lower. https://www.flickr.com/photos/houndog1372/8565406824/ Edited November 22, 2014 by johny retro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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