Hornby Mk2e coaches

[hedgeaf]

Hi, in reference to one of the previous posts; is the Hornby Mk2D BSO now completely dead ?

 

I ask as I was waiting for this to complete a rake, and since Hornby still have it on their own shop website I assumed it would turn up at some point. With the Mk2Es now here I'm wondering, so if anyone has anything definitive I'd appreciate it as I might have to do some reorganising !

 

cheers

[jonathan452]

Hi, in reference to one of the previous posts; is the Hornby Mk2D BSO now completely dead ?

 

I ask as I was waiting for this to complete a rake, and since Hornby still have it on their own shop website I assumed it would turn up at some point. With the Mk2Es now here I'm wondering, so if anyone has anything definitive I'd appreciate it as I might have to do some reorganising !

 

cheers

Still on Hattons Website - http://www.ehattons.com/51171/Hornby_R4563_Mk2d_BR_Intercity_Blue_Grey_Open_Second_Brake_Withdrawn_from_2012_range/StockDetail.aspx.

 

So who knows.

[YK 50A]

...in reference to one of the previous posts; is the Hornby Mk2D BSO now completely dead ?

 

Still on Hattons Website - http://www.ehattons.com/51171/Hornby_R4563_Mk2d_BR_Intercity_Blue_Grey_Open_Second_Brake_Withdrawn_from_2012_range/StockDetail.aspx.

 

So who knows.

 

Hi,

I was certainly given the impression by Hornby that all development on the ex-Airfix Mk2s had ceased.  The Hattons website is a treasure trove of past, present and even never released products, and it does say "Withdrawn from 2012 range".  However, the model is also still on the Hornby website, but it was due in the shops December 2012 - two years ago.  I would like one too, but I won't be holding my breath,

 

Alun

[MJI]

Hi, in reference to one of the previous posts; is the Hornby Mk2D BSO now completely dead ?

 

I ask as I was waiting for this to complete a rake, and since Hornby still have it on their own shop website I assumed it would turn up at some point. With the Mk2Es now here I'm wondering, so if anyone has anything definitive I'd appreciate it as I might have to do some reorganising !

 

cheers

 

 

Try Ebay

 

I bought lots there recently, mainly for 2xBSO 2xFO -> 2E TSO and 2xBFK

[YK 50A]

Try Ebay

 

I bought lots there recently, mainly for 2xBSO 2xFO -> 2E TSO and 2xBFK

 

Hello,

 

I had presumed 'headgeaf' was after a Hornby one to match his other vehicles.  We're not all demons with an airbrush! 

 

Alun

[Opelsi]

Yes - for those of us not blessed with airbrush prowess the planned Mk2D BSO (Blue-Grey) is missing from that range.

 

I will be very disappointed if it does not surface (to complete my Mk2D Blue-Grey rake) - though not surprised!

[JSpencer]

I have seen these new full blown Mk2E at last.

 

I feel overall they are better than the Airfix 2Ds.

 

At first I was surprised to see electrical pickups only on one bogie, but the built in capacitor maintains the lights for a good second or so, enough to cover dead areas. Brightness seems to remain consistant regardless of the power.

 

The corridor connecting ends are bi colour, half black, half grey. Is that normal?

 

Be interesting to compare with the Bachmann ones eventually but of course I think Hornby have achieved a good balance even if experts here could argue about some silly errors that could have been avoided.

 

The thing I like best is the lighting. If Hornby could sell the lighting kits apart, I would buy some and it is nice to finally have some lighted coaches behind all these lighted diesels.

[hedgeaf]

cheers for comments - I was looking for an RTR to match the newer editions. I'd run the others with a Mk2E but just invested in a lighted rake and prefer to keep the brands/types separate to some extent (coupling heights, colour shades etc.). I'd be interested in a cheap lighting kit that might retrofit Mk3/4 coaches, although very much a future project. I guess an ebay Airfix/Mainline or newer Mk2E railroad would be an ok fit though.

 

I figured Hattons could easily be wrong, but Hornby's own site still shows it as forthcoming. In fact, I'll just email them !

[Lochnagar]

Just had chance to look at this. I saw the swallow Mk2Es on the saturday morning at warley, but by the time I'd gone to buy them they'd all gone. So I bought some on eBay on the saturday night as I was quite impressed looking at them in the boxes. 

 

However on opening the boxes, I assumed that they'd been damaged in the post and the chassis had unclipped from the body. Oh. Apparently not!! 

 

I'm not one to moan, but. .

 

Seriously, in 2014 we have a model that doesn't fit together properly. Someone in the tooling department in the UK or China must have noticed this. . a fundamental problem that would show up on the very first test samples. Not impressed, and I'm really shocked this has been allowed to pass into a production model. Even if someone thought Mk2s had a sole bar, when you pick the coach up the whole thing can flex and flop up and down by several mm which is a bit of a giveaway that somethings wrong.

 

I'll be doing the same as Brian and chopping mine up to fix the sole bar issue, as that's so huge a problem It has to be fixed. 

 

Other issues aside, the roof vents are a work of fiction. Even the USS Enterprise doesn't have roof vents like that. After all, the first thing you usually see on a model is the roof. Wrong style of vent and/or in the wrong place I can live with, but big square things that don't exist is a silly mistake and should have been spotted. Especially as Hornby have an existing MK2 to compare it with. 

 

However if viewed at platform level the vents look spot on as you can only see the side!

 

Hopefully the Bachmann one will be spot on, in the meantime I'll make do with these as I still think the overall 'look' is very good. Also worthy of note is that so far I've not seen any dodgy paint finishes and 'touch ups' on the new MK2s as per most new Hornby stuff I've bought this year. 

 

So thumbs up for a decent paint job, even if the lower bodyside executive light grey is a bit out. 

 

Although I have to say, if I'd have known about these two issues I wouldn't have bought any as I could do without the extra faff sorting them out. 

 

Alex

[Black 5 Bear]

Just had chance to look at this. I saw the swallow Mk2Es on the saturday morning at warley, but by the time I'd gone to buy them they'd all gone. So I bought some on eBay on the saturday night as I was quite impressed looking at them in the boxes. 

 

However on opening the boxes, I assumed that they'd been damaged in the post and the chassis had unclipped from the body. Oh. Apparently not!! 

 

I'm not one to moan, but. .

 

Seriously, in 2014 we have a model that doesn't fit together properly. Someone in the tooling department in the UK or China must have noticed this. . a fundamental problem that would show up on the very first test samples. Not impressed, and I'm really shocked this has been allowed to pass into a production model. Even if someone thought Mk2s had a sole bar, when you pick the coach up the whole thing can flex and flop up and down by several mm which is a bit of a giveaway that somethings wrong.

 

I'll be doing the same as Brian and chopping mine up to fix the sole bar issue, as that's so huge a problem It has to be fixed. 

 

Other issues aside, the roof vents are a work of fiction. Even the USS Enterprise doesn't have roof vents like that. After all, the first thing you usually see on a model is the roof. Wrong style of vent and/or in the wrong place I can live with, but big square things that don't exist is a silly mistake and should have been spotted. Especially as Hornby have an existing MK2 to compare it with. 

 

However if viewed at platform level the vents look spot on as you can only see the side!

 

Hopefully the Bachmann one will be spot on, in the meantime I'll make do with these as I still think the overall 'look' is very good. Also worthy of note is that so far I've not seen any dodgy paint finishes and 'touch ups' on the new MK2s as per most new Hornby stuff I've bought this year. 

 

So thumbs up for a decent paint job, even if the lower bodyside executive light grey is a bit out. 

 

Although I have to say, if I'd have known about these two issues I wouldn't have bought any as I could do without the extra faff sorting them out. 

 

Alex

Unfortunately as another member commented, production batch rushed out to secure sales before Bachmann release their new MK2s !!!

[ifitlooksright]

cheers for comments - I was looking for an RTR to match the newer editions. I'd run the others with a Mk2E but just invested in a lighted rake and prefer to keep the brands/types separate to some extent (coupling heights, colour shades etc.). I'd be interested in a cheap lighting kit that might retrofit Mk3/4 coaches, although very much a future project. I guess an ebay Airfix/Mainline or newer Mk2E railroad would be an ok fit though.

 

I figured Hattons could easily be wrong, but Hornby's own site still shows it as forthcoming. In fact, I'll just email them !

It is ridiculous to have to run the same types together due to the problems mentioned above. Does anybody realize out there that this is unacceptable? Don't buy them if they don't conform. How come continental HO nem heights are correct. I have never had so much frustration as I have had trying to go back to British OO. I am talking about run of the mill ordinary blokes here that don't "cut and shut", "respray" etc. IMHO it is ridiculous to have to go to these lengths after spending so much on models. Continental HO is NOT expensive as they need no alterations!!!!

I know about size of markets etc but i think that this day and age the faults on the MK2e are appalling. No close coupling, colour wrong, lining wrong, lightbar too short, buckeye that is in wrong position (sorry that was a mk1 fault), door window too wide.

 

If I were producing a model I would at least have it height tested against all the vehicles from all manufacturers that it would be likely to be coupled to as well as my own. Bachmann's mk1 - mk2 heights in OO and N are incorrect. As for buffers and couplings. There are standards????? Has anybody taken a Bachmann mk1 back to the shop and said " the coupling cannot be called NEM as it is the wrong height"?  I cannot come back to British OO as it is still "faulty and jerry built". (Fairwell) I have calmed down since but I am not going to model blue grey era any more. Maroon, green and chocolate/cream.

Edited December 18, 2014 by ifitlooksright

[brushman47544]

Unfortunately as another member commented, production batch rushed out to secure sales before Bachmann release their new MK2s !!!

 

...which was totally unnecessary seeing as Bachmann's Mk2f are on current progress unlikely to see daylight before the end of 2015 at the earliest.

[JSpencer]

The corridor connecting ends on the blue grey ones look oddly painted to me

 

 

The Airfix 2Ds do sit higher, but in fairness these are 30 plus year old models. I still feel the 2 Es are better despite some silly errors.

[andyman7]

It is ridiculous to have to run the same types together due to the problems mentioned above. Does anybody realize out there that this is unacceptable? Don't buy them if they don't conform. How come continental HO nem heights are correct. I have never had so much frustration as I have had trying to go back to British OO. I am talking about run of the mill ordinary blokes here that don't "cut and shut", "respray" etc. IMHO it is ridiculous to have to go to these lengths after spending so much on models. Continental HO is NOT expensive as they need no alterations!!!!

I know about size of markets etc but i think that this day and age the faults on the MK2e are appalling. No close coupling, colour wrong, lining wrong, lightbar too short, buckeye that is in wrong position/ fouling, door window too wide.

 

If I were producing a model I would at least have it height tested against all the vehicles from all manufacturers that it would be likely to be coupled to as well as my own. Bachmann's mk1 - mk2 heights in OO and N are incorrect. As for buffers and couplings. There are standards????? Has anybody taken a Bachmann mk1 back to the shop and said " the coupling cannot be called NEM as it is the wrong height"?  I cannot come back to British OO as it is still "faulty and jerry built". Fairwell

I agree with the frustration particularly about UK RTR seeming to be fundamentally incapable of installing NEM362 coupling pockets at the right height and spacing with close coupling cams as standard, 20 years after this was adopted in the rest of Europe. However, I don't see much sign that a lot of UK modellers have really got the hang of the benefits of these - just look at how many modellers prefer Kadees (which of course don't exploit a close coupling cam properly because they can pivot at the point of coupling) as opposed to Roco or Fleischmann couplers. Also, the Hornby Mk2es are being sold at £20-£25 which is well below what you'll pay for a new European outline coach, and there's still plenty of evidence (as demonstarted by reaction to recent price rises) that much of the market simply won't pay European prices. 

[BigAndy]

I agree with the frustration particularly about UK RTR seeming to be fundamentally incapable of installing NEM362 coupling pockets at the right height and spacing with close coupling cams as standard, 20 years after this was adopted in the rest of Europe. However, I don't see much sign that a lot of UK modellers have really got the hang of the benefits of these - just look at how many modellers prefer Kadees (which of course don't exploit a close coupling cam properly because they can pivot at the point of coupling) as opposed to Roco or Fleischmann couplers. Also, the Hornby Mk2es are being sold at £20-£25 which is well below what you'll pay for a new European outline coach, and there's still plenty of evidence (as demonstarted by reaction to recent price rises) that much of the market simply won't pay European prices. 

 

 

And with that last sentence lies the issue.

 

For some reason that I cannot fathom, British outline modellers will not pay for top quality products. Everyone wants top drawer stock but are not prepared to put there hands any deeper than a couple of inches into their pockets.........

 

Look at the Murphy's models aircon Mk2's - drool worthy, but you would be looking at nearly £50 for one, if i was modelling Irish, I would be quite happy to pay that as the product was worth it. We can all find glaring faults with these Hornby 2E's ( because there are plenty ), but it has to be expected that you get what you pay for. At 20 odd quid a throw, they are not going to have had the devleopment time spent on them, and short cuts made in the production stage, to fit in the price bracket that British modellers are prepared to pay.

 

If you want Hornby or any other producer to get things right, then tell them that you are prepared to have the best researchers, the best developers working with the production teams. You cannot play in the Premier league if you have a second division side.

 

Each company has their own team of researchers and developers, and within those teams, there are some good ones and some not so good - thats why we are getting hit and miss models. Top rank developers will cost to employ, but if the customer base is not prepared to foot that in the end RRP, then you are going to continue to get second rate products. Simples.

 

cheers

 

Andy

[JSpencer]

Here are photos comparing Bachmann, Hornby and Airfix mk 2s:

 

Airfix 2D left, Hornby 2E right - coupling and heights are quite different.

 

Hornby 2E left, Bachmann Mk 2 right - coupling heights match, slight difference in coach height (more visible in photo than in real life)

 

3 coaches side by side. The new 2E is much finer than the 2D, not quite to Bachmann but can work with them. Sole bars are a stupid mistake though.

 

Bogies are a good natch between Hornby 2E and Bachmann. Airfix looks dated (well it us older!)

 

I think you can run new Bachmann and Hornby 2Es without a problem, but the Airfix ones look too high and dated next to them.

[Flood]

Also, the Hornby Mk2es are being sold at £20-£25 which is well below what you'll pay for a new European outline coach, and there's still plenty of evidence (as demonstarted by reaction to recent price rises) that much of the market simply won't pay European prices. 

 

 

And with that last sentence lies the issue.

 

If you want Hornby or any other producer to get things right, then tell them that you are prepared to have the best researchers, the best developers working with the production teams. You cannot play in the Premier league if you have a second division side.

 

cheers

 

Andy

Two very valid points.

 

I have had a chat with a gentleman from Bachmann this week and I did state that Hornby's research seemed poor to me and I hoped that Bachmann would not restrict themselves to solely looking at photos and drawings but also finding some full size examples of Mk2f stock to have a look at and photograph.

 

Regarding prices then Hornby have actually done all of us a favour.

 

As Brushman states the Bachmann stock is unlikely to appear until the end of 2015. Bachmann therefore can take their time to make the model as accurate as they wish within a particular price constraint (probably £50 per coach by then). They can also talk to Andy and other people in the hobby to run pre-production samples past informative eyes before final production decisions are made and....

 

The rest of us can make an effort to start saving our pennies from now to make sure we can afford a hopefully beautifully accurate set of models when they arrive.

 

 

One final point: Bachmann already make a Mk2Z BFK and a Mk2A BFK. Go on guys make us a Mk2D BFK as well - you know you really want to!!!!!

[Brian Kirby]

Amid all this negativity, i'm still plodding away at my 2E upgrades, here's my repainted and prepared FO interior, and my solution for the poor lighting. My answer is to put two of the same lighting units in one coach, placed in opposing positions, the capacitors are deliberately in the middle, without being seen from outside, so that i can place an LED over each end vestibule without cutting. I did wonder if the centre may be too bright and some LEDs would need blanking, but it hasn't been a problem.   BK

 

[Brian Kirby]

. . . . And here is the result. Since these pics, i've added curtains, although you only see the top corners when drawn back, you actually see more of the curtains on the opposite side. I'll do more pics, which will also show revised roof vents and bogies, plus livery alterations.   BK

 

[Flood]

. . . . And here is the result. Since these pics, i've added curtains, although you only see the top corners when drawn back, you actually see more of the curtains on the opposite side. I'll do more pics, which will also show revised roof vents and bogies, plus livery alterations.   BK

 

 

CIMG4661.JPG

 

Sorry Brian, I've spotted the centralised roof vent that needs moving to over the end doors (like the one on the other side of the coach).

[Brian Kirby]

Don't worry Graham, these pics above were taken a couple of days ago, and things have changed since then. As far as i can see, the BSO and TSO roofs are fairly okay location wise, but their FO is mostly wrong, so i have since filed off all three vents on the FO and replaced with carved up plasticard. I did alter the TSO's original oversize vents, but replacement seems easier, so i have removed the otherwise correct BSO vents and replaced. Here's a quick pic to prove it.    BK  (Forgot to mention, i also added the missing tank vent on the FO and TSO, but the tube part is not that obvious in this rather bright picture.)

 

Edited December 4, 2014 by Brian Kirby

[YesTor]

For some reason that I cannot fathom, British outline modellers will not pay for top quality products. Everyone wants top drawer stock but are not prepared to put there hands any deeper than a couple of inches into their pockets...

 

 

I totally agree.  There's something in British culture that for some unknown reason results in buyers generally expecting "something for nothing".  If you want top-notch, whether it be cars, food, clothing or model trains then you gotta pay for it.  Of course, if you pay top dollar and still receive an inferior product then there's justified cause for complain.  I saw one or two people buying an armful of these at Warley, and I guess if you simply want something that looks vaguely like a Mark 2e from a distance then those people will probably be very happy with them.

[ifitlooksright]

I totally agree.  There's something in British culture that for some unknown reason results in buyers generally expecting "something for nothing".  If you want top-notch, whether it be cars, food, clothing or model trains then you gotta pay for it.  Of course, if you pay top dollar and still receive an inferior product then there's justified cause for complain.  I saw one or two people buying an armful of these at Warley, and I guess if you simply want something that looks vaguely like a Mark 2e from a distance then those people will probably be very happy with them.

even the cheaper (than Hornby Mid range mk2es) european "hobby" coaches are better engineered than this stuff. Judging by what I see here Hornby should sell undecorated coaches (like the americans) and or make all the parts available to people who really are right into scratchbuilding?

What really is the market that the manufacturers are chasing in the UK? 3D printing will kill off Chinese manufacturing because of the control that will be possible here and now without the long back and forward of samples. I always thought that Chinese made products were kind of melted looking!

[YesTor]

What really is the market that the manufacturers are chasing in the UK?

 

Quite possibly a similar market to any business, ie. the one that reaps the biggest return.  Place yourself in the position of the manufacturers, where all you hear are cries of woe mostly concerning inflated retail prices.  So, what do you do - manufacture a lower quality, lower research cost, lower production cost, albeit slightly inferior product - however still make a healthy profit, because the market is telling you they want 'cheap' models...

 

...or, do you throw big money into research, development and high production costs, resulting in high cost stock with a potentially lower profit margin, and additionally the risk of stock left on the shelf because it is deemed 'overpriced' by the market.

 

Purely from a businessman's viewpoint I know which option I'd be pumping for.  Okay, that doesn't help those, like myself, who prefer a highly-detailed and accurate model, however sadly it seems as though that is the minority market.

 

So I guess to those who wanted 'cheap' models, well... you got 'em this time folks! 

Edited December 5, 2014 by darkjunglemung

[45125]

The corridor connecting ends on the blue grey ones look oddly painted to me

 

image.jpg

 

The Airfix 2Ds do sit higher, but in fairness these are 30 plus year old models. I still feel the 2 Es are better despite some silly errors.

Some one has looked at refurbished mike that has had the gangway face plate ferodo rubbing strip replaced with a devol rubbing strip and assumed all IIe's have this fitted from new.