Washout at Dawlish

[Granitechops]

Referring to the last 4 photos,

 

Ok, Who nicked the cobbles out of the station yard?

These look like Granite sets, roughly the size of a normal house brick,

 

but more resilient to frost damage due to spalling and

 

more resilient to crush damage due to force of the waves

 

they look similar to those used to form the integral seats in the higher seawall along the front

 

from the Old Lifeboat House towards Dawlish Warren, before you get to the new raised section

[Granitechops]

Sad fatality near new seawall walkway

 

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/UPDATE-Person-dies-hit-train-near-Dawlish/story-28084623-detail/story.html

 

 

What a sad loss of life. so many people will be affected.

 

Did notice on the Dawlish Beach Cam video yesterday at 9.31 that the seas were tremendous,

 

and my tide table for yesterday states a fairly high tide of 4.3m at 9.15.

 

I wonder if it was avoiding the waves on the seawall in desperation.

 

Do Network Rail instruct drivers to slow down when waves are high & be vigilant for people escaping waves?

 

No criticism implied, just like to know as a regular user of the wall, so the unsuspecting can be warned

 

in desparation if caught out, I dont suppose the fine or the danger of being on the trackside would be upermost in ones mind?

 

A whole lot more factors are obviously involved.

 

BUT it is quite likely that in rough weather the choice of waves or train will have to be made by people caught out for WHATEVER reason

[The Stationmaster]

It is always very difficult to know why someone was on a railway line when they're no longer able to answer.  But the simple message is never to get onto a railway unless you know how to do so safely and preferably not unless you are sure that no trains will approach the bit that you are on (and even then take great care).  

 

Much of the time it is very difficult for a Driver to see anyone on or about the line unless they are wearing hi-vis clothing (and even that is not always visible) and even if they do see someone it is fairly likely they they would be unable to stop - nor should they even be expected to stop - before they hit them.  In bad conditions along the sea wall visibility will be even worse and in all probability the only way a Driver would know his train has hit somebody would be if he/she feels the bump.  

 

So the simple message is indeed very simple - don't get onto the railway line, it is not a place of safety.

[Granitechops]

Someone suggested to me today that maybe the person was on the actual seawall path,

 

 and maybe a wave threw them over the parapet onto the track

 

if they were unconscious........?

 

it was wild enough for that to happen

 

have actually seen a rowing boat picked up by the waves & deposited on the track at Starcross,

 

and that is on the estuary not even on the sea front

 

we may never know!

[Dunsignalling]

Someone suggested to me today that maybe the person was on the actual seawall path,

 

 and maybe a wave threw them over the parapet onto the track

 

if they were unconscious........?

 

it was wild enough for that to happen

 

have actually seen a rowing boat picked up by the waves & deposited on the track at Starcross,

 

and that is on the estuary not even on the sea front

 

we may never know!

Whatever the truth of the matter, it seems clear that the late gentleman had placed himself in great jeopardy even if he didn't deliberately go on the railway.

 

Unfortunately, too many people underestimate the power of the sea and/or find excitement in getting closer to it than is sensible in storm conditions. We have seen it demolish a railway (and the wall it was sitting on) so the survival of any individual swept up in such waves is purely down to luck.

 

Some years ago I worked in Seaton and, one morning, arrived to discover that a 25' fishing boat had been removed from the beach and transported more-or-less intact (accompanied by several tons of pebbles) 150 yards up the road by an overnight storm, passing my workplace en route. Much other destruction was wrought that night and millions were spent on a protective wall and storm gates to prevent it happening again. Even so, you won't catch me within 50 yards of it when a big one is kicking off.

 

John 

 

 

 

  

Edited November 1, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Granitechops]

Whatever the truth of the matter, it seems clear that the late gentleman had placed himself in great jeopardy even if he didn't deliberately go on the railway.

 

Unfortunately, too many people underestimate the power of the sea and/or find excitement in getting closer to it than is sensible in storm conditions. We have seen it demolish a railway (and the wall it was sitting on) so the survival of any individual swept up in such waves is purely down to luck.

 

Some years ago I worked in Seaton and, one morning, arrived to discover that a 25' fishing boat had been removed from the beach and transported more-or-less intact (accompanied by several tons of pebbles) 150 yards up the road by an overnight storm, passing my workplace en route. Much other destruction was wrought that night and millions were spent on a protective wall and storm gates to prevent it happening again. Even so, you won't catch me within 50 yards of it when a big one is kicking off.

 

John 

 

Absolutely John, & yet recently someone was claiming to have been wave dodging with someone in a hand wheelchair!!!

[Keith George]

Absolutely John, & yet recently someone was claiming to have been wave dodging with someone in a hand wheelchair!!!

 

Hope that was not you Don   

 

Keith

[Captain Kernow]

Sad fatality near new seawall walkway

 

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/UPDATE-Person-dies-hit-train-near-Dawlish/story-28084623-detail/story.html

 

 

What a sad loss of life. so many people will be affected.

 

Did notice on the Dawlish Beach Cam video yesterday at 9.31 that the seas were tremendous,

 

and my tide table for yesterday states a fairly high tide of 4.3m at 9.15.

 

I wonder if it was avoiding the waves on the seawall in desperation.

 

Do Network Rail instruct drivers to slow down when waves are high & be vigilant for people escaping waves?

 

No criticism implied, just like to know as a regular user of the wall, so the unsuspecting can be warned

 

in desparation if caught out, I dont suppose the fine or the danger of being on the trackside would be upermost in ones mind?

 

A whole lot more factors are obviously involved.

 

BUT it is quite likely that in rough weather the choice of waves or train will have to be made by people caught out for WHATEVER reason

I have little information on this incident at the moment, partly because it's not normally my job at work these days to investigate, and partly because I've been busy with other work-related things.

 

However, we don't really know why the individual was on the railway, but in all my years of association with the operation of the railway along the Dawlish Sea Wall, I've never known a person getting thrown over the parapet wall from the walkway to the railway by wave action. It should also be born in mind that most of the new parapet wall along the new raised section is quite a bit higher than the original parapet walls.

 

What we do witness sometimes, however, is stupid actions by members of the public in getting too close to the waves and thus putting themselves (and their rescuers) in danger.

 

There is, of course, an Operations Protocol governing the speed and general operation of trains along the Sea Wall during adverse weather, but this is in place to ensure the safety of railway operations.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Captain Kernow

[Keith George]

I was in Teignmouth several years ago when a teenage lad was very depressed with the exam results that he had just received.

 

He sat on the track just outside Teignmouth station on the curve to the seawall and waited for a train to hit him..........it did.

 

A very sad affair.

 

Keith.

[Granitechops]

Bit rough down at Dawlish this morning, no wind, no storm, just rough waves,

 

Video taken just after high tide at 10.45

 

https://youtu.be/PrmUgk5UB7M

[jamie92208]

Bit rough down at Dawlish this morning, no wind, no storm, just rough waves,

 

Video taken just after high tide at 10.45

 

https://youtu.be/PrmUgk5UB7M

Hope you didn't get too wet.  It looked like you made a strategic retreat at one point.

 

Jamie

[SHMD]

Bit rough down at Dawlish this morning, no wind, no storm, just rough waves,

 

Video taken just after high tide at 10.45

 

https://youtu.be/PrmUgk5UB7M

 

Thanks Granitechops,

 

It's interesting to see the stones that are deposited by the second wave 30s in.

 

 

Kev.

[Granitechops]

Hope you didn't get too wet.  It looked like you made a strategic retreat at one point.

 

Jamie

Didnt get one drop on me actually. I was watching the waves for a least 30 mins before I took that Video,

 

to see how it was.  still made me jump though.

 

where I was sitting, there is a stone wall enclosure around the mouth of the Dawlish Brook

 

that empties out under the viaduct,  it breaks up the waves somewhat before they hit that bit of the walkway

 

you might be able to see what I mean from this photo taken from the opposite way to the video (taken last year)

 

 

what I did though was to spin round to catch the run off that had

 

run along the back wall & drained into the brook drain

 

strangely  there was no wind, just rough seas 

 

I do try to be out of reach of sea water as it would probably cut my electrics dead

 

the tide was only a 3.8m ,,

 

higher tides like 4.3m,  with an easterly behind them roar right up through under the Viaduct & across the main road

 

several people did get a good soaking because they did not appreciate

 

that every 5th or 6th or 7th wave can be much higher than the rest

Edited December 16, 2015 by Granitechops

[dcriout]

Bit rough down at Dawlish this morning, no wind, no storm, just rough waves,

 

Video taken just after high tide at 10.45

 

Hi Granitechops wonderful view of the waves.

Just wondering if you can get round the cycle barriers with your wheelchair? Great pity if you can't.

[Captain Kernow]

strangely  there was no wind, just rough seas 

 

 

 

the tide was only a 3.8m ,,

 

Such conditions are not that uncommon, and our bespoke weather forecast for the Sea Wall takes 'ocean dynamics' and air pressure into account, as well as wind speed, direction and tide height.

[Granitechops]

Hi Granitechops wonderful view of the waves.

Just wondering if you can get round the cycle barriers with your wheelchair? Great pity if you can't.

Hi, I have been through both barriers at the Viaduct in Dawlish,  not much room for error with the big scooter, so have to maneuver carefully & very slowly, should be able to also get through with the tandem behind. Hav'nt tried that yet, as my wife has not long got over spinal surgery, but will shortly be trying that out. Dont see any problem though, the tandem tracks very closely the scooter

 

 

[dcriout]

Hi, I have been through both barriers at the Viaduct in Dawlish,  not much room for error with the big scooter, so have to maneuver carefully & very slowly, should be able to also get through with the tandem behind. Hav'nt tried that yet, as my wife has not long got over spinal surgery, but will shortly be trying that out. Dont see any problem though, the tandem tracks very closely the scooter

 

DSC04698-30pc.jpg

 

106-00361 (99).JPG

I am very pleased to hear that. Because you have provided a very good account of proceedings during the history of this page and would have been a pity if you were unable to enjoy the wall

[Ramblin Rich]

We have a Dr. working with us who travels up from Cornwall on Monday mornings, this week she was late getting to Exeter as her Cross Country train (Voyager I assume) was stopped at Plymouth and not allowed on due to high waves, so she had to decamp into a following FGW® train. I thought from earlier up the thread that Voyagers were allowed to proceed & re-start if affected - especially as it would be on the down line....

[PhilJ W]

There was a lot of talk about an alternative route including the 1930's GWR proposal for a completely new inland route. If such a line had been built I'm wondering if the rebuilding after the washout would have happened or the line would have been abandoned.

[Captain Kernow]

We have a Dr. working with us who travels up from Cornwall on Monday mornings, this week she was late getting to Exeter as her Cross Country train (Voyager I assume) was stopped at Plymouth and not allowed on due to high waves, so she had to decamp into a following FGW® train. I thought from earlier up the thread that Voyagers were allowed to proceed & re-start if affected - especially as it would be on the down line....

If the forecast height of waves/bad spray is above a certain level, CrossCountry operational instructions call for the suspension of Voyager services on both lines between Newton Abbot and Exeter St Davids.

[Captain Kernow]

There was a lot of talk about an alternative route including the 1930's GWR proposal for a completely new inland route. If such a line had been built I'm wondering if the rebuilding after the washout would have happened or the line would have been abandoned.

I suspect it would have been, at the very least in terms of providing a viable sea defence for the local area. Whether the railway component was also replaced would probably depend on the capacity of the new 1930s route.

[Kris]

BBC article about a report into the future resilience of the line. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-35146033

[Captain Kernow]

BBC article about a report into the future resilience of the line. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-35146033

Of course, that article assumes that nothing further is done to enhance the resilience of the Sea Wall, whereas the truth is that something almost certainly will be done, and I have a private view on what that could look like in the future.

 

In the meantime, don't forget that the 10 incidents mentioned is very much an average, and can include the above-mentioned disruption to Voyagers only, right up to a full-blown precautionary closure due to a severe storm.

 

The Western Morning News had a similar headline today, as I noticed whilst waiting for CTMK to rush me a shopping bag out of the back of the car, whilst I loitered suspiciously near the checkouts in the Totnes Coop (too tight to pay for a carrier bag, when we had a bootful of bags in the car).

[olivegreen]

The BBC article linked is full of 'could', 'might', 'if' and so on, which to me means 1) whatever happens, the writer can never be accused of being wrong, and 2) it is a non-story broadcast for the sake of (low-key, admittedly) sensation. A slow news day in the south-west, perhaps?

 

I support Captain Kernow's first paragraph above.

[Kris]

The Western Morning News had a similar headline today, 

 

As with all news outlets it's always the worst possible outcomes that tend to make for the biggest stories. There really is nothing like telling the whole story when a quarter of it on its own is much more interesting.