Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[ChrisN]

12 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

We are aware that the photo is post 1892 but all the stock originates before that date and it is a really nice pic. It was really hard to find decent pre-1892 images of trains.

Re it being on the wrong line, I think you are right. It does look as if it is heading south, so I wonder why from the Down platform.

One for the "!Cambrian mob" top chew over.

Jonathan

 

 

There is this photo, which might of course be a one off, but there is a later photo as well with two diesels, (sorry for the bad language), in the same position.  There is this one as well.  

 

This was the signal diagram I had thought of but it is much later and does not show what we want.

 

Here is the postcard I miss linked earlier.

[Compound2632]

25 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

Here is the postcard I miss linked earlier.

 

Even allowing for the vagaries of postcard colourists, I'd bet my bottom dollar that's a Cambrian carriage. It certainly isn't LNW or GW.

[corneliuslundie]

Looking at the black and white version, also on that site, I wonder if it might be Saloon 9 or 11, though I cannot quite match the windows with those in the photos I know or the drawing, and it seems to be longer. I don't think I have a photo of either of Saloons 264 or 265, though they are too late for you Chris.

On second thoughts it may well be one of the carriages with lavatories and luggage space in the centre of the vehicle for through workings.  as there are too many vents for one of the Saloons.

But yes, Cambrian.

Jonathan

[tanatvalley]

15 hours ago, ChrisN said:

In the cover picture of the book, the train which is a wonderful collection of six wheelers, with a possible through carriage at the back, behind an Albion 2-4-0, (beautiful), is on the wrong line. 

Chris, it is not on the wrong line as it has entered the single line. The line behind is a headshunt off the up platform. See latest Cooke Track plan No. 63.

[ChrisN]

20 minutes ago, tanatvalley said:

Chris, it is not on the wrong line as it has entered the single line. The line behind is a headshunt off the up platform. See latest Cooke Track plan No. 63.

 

Alan,

Yes, thank you.  It is obvious on the National Library of Scotland 25" map.

[Mikkel]

On 26/08/2023 at 22:44, ChrisN said:

Things have been a little slow lately, and I still have some pictures on my camera to download, of the interesting bit, well I think it is interesting.  (I have also done some boring bits to the platform.)

 

The Cambrian Third Class Saloon.  (I did get out the ladies of the Dolgelley Temperance Society to paint them, but then I saw the time, and so put them back.)

 

Here are the constituent parts.

 

 

I showed this picture last time, which is the top four laminations, with holes in the bottom two drilled through to allow any fumes to escape.

 

 

The other side, and the ends. (Ah, no pictures of the parts of the end.  Two plain pieces, and a moulding piece.)  I have added some mouldings, er, by eye, although I did measure the distance between the top and bottom ones to make sure the middle one was equidistant between the two.)  I think that perhaps they should have been on a panel layer but I did not think of it when I was drawing the file, and there is, as far as I have found, no pictures of this coach.  Notice that the end panelling does not quite fit, not sure why.

 

 

Finally, I put some 15 thou strips on the laminations in the first picture, (sorry, for got to take a photo), and then put the final layer on.  This again has holes to allow fumes to escape.  The idea of the strips is that I can slide 10 thou glazing into it when it is finished and painted.  That is the theory, and it did work on one a while ago which I used as practise.

 

It now needs the end bevelling to make a fit, and a floor making.  I know that Cambrian chassis do not look like GWR ones, but Ratio chassis are GWR and I am not going to draw and cut a Cambrian one.  The floor will be made to take the Ratio solebars etc.  (I need to look at my pictures of how I did this before on the Parliamentary coaches.)  This is not a five minute job like laminating, and will be longer than the mouldings, so I need to convince myself I have enough time to do that and something on the station building or platform.

 

In other but similar news, while my wife is sitting on her laptop working in the evenings, so as to not be completely antisocial, I sit with her on my laptop, editing Silhouette files, what I made earlier, and messed up.  I have now finished the E25.  It is ready to cut.  I had hoped to do that today, but all my time disappeared.  This will be more complicated to build, and I keep telling myself that I ought to be getting on with scenery.  Still the chances of me going completely barmy and making the whole of the 10:02 from Paddington, are fairly remote.  Honest........

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

Chris, that's a wonderful coach in the making. Since it is Third Class, I assume that the Saloon designation merely describes the seating layout, and not a type of coach that could be hired for a party?

 

16 hours ago, ChrisN said:

In the cover picture of the book, the train which is a wonderful collection of six wheelers, with a possible through carriage at the back, behind an Albion 2-4-0, (beautiful), is on the wrong line. [snip]

 

5 hours ago, ChrisN said:

[snip]

That information now makes me realise that, in this famous photo the leading coach is a GWR through coach, and this terrible postcard, shows a Cambrian coach, although I have never seen a Cambrian coach with so many ventilators.

[snip]

 

I am excitedly jumping  up and down in my seat (not unlike a guinea pig we used to have) at the sight of these photos. The 1889 Barmouth photo in particular takes some beating. Thank you gentlemen for sharing them with us dull GWR types!

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Mikkel
Typos

[corneliuslundie]

As far as I know the Saloon was used for party hire. Before the First World War there was a lot of such business but it collapsed thereafter. Much of it of course would have been posh families going on holiday with their servants etc. But this one is a bit more pedestrian. Possibly Sunday School outings, choirs going to singing engagements or football teams going to matches?

An advantage for us modellers is that one can "sort of" justify almost any company's Saloon almost anywhere in the country.

Jonathan

[Mikkel]

Thanks for that, Jonathan. I have been a bit confused about Saloon Thirds, despite having one myself (a GWR G20).  I've been wondering what they were actually used for, as I don't imagine Third class passengers could afford hiring them for family holidays, hunting parties etc. But your examples make a lot of sense, i.e. vehicles hired for community activities.

 

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Thanks for that, Jonathan. I have been a bit confused about Saloon Thirds, despite having one myself (a GWR G20).  I've been wondering what they were actually used for, as I don't imagine Third class passengers could afford hiring them for family holidays, hunting parties etc. But your examples make a lot of sense, i.e. vehicles hired for community activities.

 

 

Mikkel,

Sorry, I have been out at a grandson's birthday.  As Jonathan said they were hired by groups of people to do things together, hence the hiring by the Ladies of the Dolgelley Temperance Society.  I think in the end on the Cambrian they were called 'Football Saloons' as I think they were hired by football teams and or/supporters to go to away matches.  (Local league stuff.)  I am sure I have seen a photo of the inside of one full of men, but it is probably copyright.  I need to have another good look through my books again.

 

I have no historical precedent but my G20 will have farmers and their wives off to Traeth Mawr market.  I am sure I have real evidence of how things were hired out but at The moment I cannot remember.

[Donw]

9 hours ago, tanatvalley said:

Chris, it is not on the wrong line as it has entered the single line. The line behind is a headshunt off the up platform. See latest Cooke Track plan No. 63.

 

Yes but it does not look as through it is crossing onto the single line the train looks to line up with the down platform. It may be just a trick of the camera angle though

 

Don

[Nick Gough]

Seen yesterday:

 

Preparing to replace the main steel girder sections of the bridge.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Nick Gough

[ChrisN]

7 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Seen yesterday:

 

Preparing to replace the main steel girder sections of the bridge.

 

Thank you Nick,

We actually drove through Barmouth last weekend, (it was a mistake really as it was heaving), so we did see that but were unable to stop and take pictures.  We have just come back from a week in Porthmadog.  Got as far south as Harlech yesterday.

[Nick Gough]

51 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Thank you Nick,

We actually drove through Barmouth last weekend, (it was a mistake really as it was heaving), so we did see that but were unable to stop and take pictures.  We have just come back from a week in Porthmadog.  Got as far south as Harlech yesterday.

Sadly I wasn't there myself. 

The photos were taken by my daughter, from the coach, on the way back home from an outward bound week, with her junior school class, up the coast. 

You were lucky - they visited Harlech the day before you! Castle and ice cream shop.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Nick Gough

[ChrisN]

On 16/09/2023 at 10:38, Nick Gough said:

Seen yesterday:

 

Preparing to replace the main steel girder sections of the bridge.

 

Here is the latest picture of the bridge on my favourite web site.  Click back to find others, and probably there will be more added.

[ChrisN]

I have had some interest in my 6ft 4" Dean Bogie, (well, I am interested), and rather than just saying to people, 'Search my thread', I thought I had better put together a list of links as to how I built it.  As ever I have photographed everything I did and put it in order, which of course means that I photographed it when I remembered and only half explained it.  These are not Lego, or IKEA instructions.  (The same people do the instructions for both which is why my grandson at a very early age put together an IKEA set of drawers or something similar.)

 

Also, I have not included all the very helpful stuff put in by other people about how they worked and historical information, partly as it would only confuse, and partly as most of the pictures/diagrams have been lost.  

 

I attached a word document with the links.

 

Links to construction.docx

 

Please feel free to download.  If you would like a copy of the Silhouette file please ask.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited September 19, 2023 by ChrisN

[ChrisN]

I understand that some cannot open the document, so here are the links below.  Please comment if you use it like this please.

 

Drawing

 

Parts

 

Putting together

 

Put together

 

Finished

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

[ChrisN]

I have not reported any modelling recently, that is because I have not done a lot.  I was ill at the end of August then last week we were away in Porthmadog, in a flat overlooking the cob.  A trip on the Talyllyn  and the Llanberis Lake as well as up to Tan-y-Bwlch  on the Ffestiniog.

 

However, I have done a small project, and no, it is not another side project.  You may remember that when I made the front pillars for the station I made the top too large and as it was hardened clay it was not really recoverable.

 

I made the moulding of the pillars before from Miliput, but I decided that it was much easier using air dried clay.  Half a kilo of DAS is a bit mush when you only want a few grams, so:-

 

 

I bought this.  Surprisingly it is not 'going off' in its container.  There is now no excuse for any young lady on the layout not to have a proper length skirt!

 

In case you have forgotten, and why should you remember, this is what the pillars look like.

 

 

Perhaps Aberdovey is better as it is not so ornate.

 

 

So the base I made from 7mm square tube, measured the height I wanted, then drew a line at 2mm below the end, marked 2mm in the middle as the flat piece, and then cut the corners off with a Stanley knife.  You can hopefully see below.

 

 

I did the cutting before removing the length from the rest of the tube to make it easier.  It was then cut off using a needle saw.  They were then stuck to 10 thou plasticard, and cut off when dry.  I also cut off two, 2mm squares for the top.  This was different to last time, (ah, perhaps I had learnt something?), as it gave a limit to where the clay was to go.  These were then stuck to 10 thou plasticard and cut off when dry.  The pillar itself is an 1/8 inch tube.  I checked that I had measured the length correctly.

 

 

The 'F' is important as although everything was measured and checked and cut to incredibly fine accuracy, some parts looked better than others, and it was better that they were round the back, where only Mr Price will see them.

 

 

The clay was pushed in the bottom around the tube, smoothed out and left to dry.  When dry I did the top.

 

So we needed the round decoration.

 

 

I started by gluing10 thou rod around the back.  The first ones I used plastic weld, and when I tried to bend the rod it disintegrated.  Nest I used polystyrene cement and found that was alright but I really needed to bed the rod first, and finally having bent the rod it was better to stick the rod to the front of the pillar, then when dry, wrap the rod around and cut it off at the back.

 

 

Next one up.

 

 

All done.

 

I thought I had a picture of them in position, but maybe I have not downloaded it from my camera yet.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

[Sasquatch]

Hi Chris. Thought you might have been on your hols! Last time I was in Porthmadog we did all the same stuff and climbed Moel y Gest, unforgettable as there's a hillfort on the summit!

Hope you all had a great time, regards Shaun.

 

Oh! P.S. Great job on the station entranceway😁

Edited September 20, 2023 by Sasquatch
Postscript.

[ChrisN]

22 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Hi Chris. Thought you might have been on your hols! Last time I was in Porthmadog we did all the same stuff and climbed Moel y Gest, unforgettable as there's a hillfort on the summit!

Hope you all had a great time, regards Shaun.

 

Oh! P.S. Great job on the station entranceway😁

 

Thanks Shaun,

It is a few years since we climbed Moel y Gest, but we did manage to get about a mile or so up the Llanberis path to Snowden.

 

Those pillars are a nice little project that I had looked forward to doing as they are almost the signature of the front of the building.  Pity I had to do it twice, but it was satisfying.

Edited September 20, 2023 by ChrisN

[Mikkel]

Nice work on the pillars Chris. I like this kind of approach whereby a shape is built up pragmatically from different materials and methods. It may not be as exact as 3D printed items, but it's nice to craft things yourself.

[corneliuslundie]

Very nice. And now you have the skills honed there is no excuse for not doing the window heads individually as at Newtown!

But perhaps Traeth Mawr had them all the same anyway.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

On 21/09/2023 at 09:47, corneliuslundie said:

Very nice. And now you have the skills honed there is no excuse for not doing the window heads individually as at Newtown!

But perhaps Traeth Mawr had them all the same anyway.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

I am not sure that I could do that really, but even if I could I really do want to get this finished sometime.

[ChrisN]

More pictures of the pillars in place, this time with primer.

 

 

A nice cruel close up.  Yes, there is primer on the finials and the barge boards.  The roof has been painted.

 

 

A bit further away.  You notice that I did the ridge tiles without the chimneys in place.  The chimneys now do not fit, so I will have to cut a little of the ridge tiles away to make them fit.  (Fail.  Remember next time.)

 

Finally another close up but with more of the chimneys in.

 

 

I went to paint the chimneys and found that they were already painted.  It is usually the other way round so I was quite pleased.  I then thought about the mortar so looked at my favourite website to see if I could see what colour the mortar is/was.

 

Now I apologise for the diesel in this picture.  If that has not burnt your eyes please look at the chimneys.  (No, there is no colour photo with a steam loco and the chimneys.  Colour was not invented until the fifties and everyone lived in black and white.)

The chimneys either have no mortar and are just about to fall down, or the mortar is quite dark.  In earlier black and white photos the mortar on the chimneys does not show up either, so I am assuming it is quite dark.  (I cannot go and look now as they have taken them down.)  Also the bricks look fairly uniform(ish).

 

So I am wondering what to do in terms of mortar.  My thoughts are:-

 

1) Leave well alone.

 

2) Give the chimneys a wash with black/dark gray to tone down the colour and hope some goes in the cracks, which are not very big.

 

Thoughts, (on this subject), would be appreciated.

 

 

[brumtb]

Great work Chris, its really coming together now.

I'd go for option 2, to tone down the overall colour of the chimneys.

Tony

[Mikkel]

I think it also depends on the mortar on the rest of the building. Are you going to leave the main walls as they are, or will they have mortar too - and what shade? Sometimes it iworks better to maintain an overall cohesive impression than faithfully copying minor prototypical differences in shade.