Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[ChrisN]

With ref to your chassis. It should be fairly easy to get it soldered together, the key being having a big iron (I have a 25W weller with chisel tip which works well on most kits). You will need some sort of jig to keep things square, the best way is to square it via the axle holes, as without square axles it won't run. Now I'm not the one to say how to do it, as I've never soldered a chassis together (Well not ones for locos anyway!), but a simple way would be to get some long bolts that just fit through the axle holes, and plenty of nuts for the same. Run a nut right down to the head of the bolt, insert bolt in axle hole and then run another nut tight against the inside of the frame. Repeat with other holes.

Run another nut onto each bolt and set at the approx frame gap required, then drop the other frame on, and then another nut on the outside. Adjust gap to the correct distance and tighten the last nut up. The frames should now be square and rigidly held. You can now put the spacers in and with a big iron solder them up.

 

If you have a rayburn or something similar the hotplate can be very useful for helping to keep heat in the metal to allow the iron a better chance if it is a tad on the small size......

 

Andy G

 

Andy,

Thank you for that.  It is so obvious when you think of it.

 

I have two irons and I think the new one is 25W, although I thought that was fairly low power.  All I need now is the time to do it.

[ChrisN]

I am progressing with the cottage but I have also be working on the trucks.  This is not the most exciting picture but it shows where I am with the them.

 

 

Yes, nearly finished.  They have had the black repainted tonight, and I need to paint the buffers.  In theory they should be black as they are metal but I cannot see any paint lasting on them with the movement so I shall think about a metal colour.  The colour of te front one is the usual Cambrian freight grey but I read that some of the earlier ones were a darker grey.  As they are older perhaps they should be 'beaten about' a bit but I hesitate to do that.

 

They will need to be weathered,  , which is a whole new experience for me so that may be a while away.  I will also need some loads, which for these will be slates as they will be getting them from the exchange siding.  I understand that they could only carry two layers of duchess slates.  I am unclear as to whether these would be flat or standing on their ends.  I will have to cut some out in plasticard and see what it looks like.  I will also scour the pictures I have of wagons and see if there are any loaded with slates.

 

Finally, I need to think about couplings.  I have debated long and hard with myself as to what type but I think three link will not work with the curves on the layout and I am unsure about Kaydee, mainly because I have stock already and probably ought to make them compatible.  This will mean tension lock. 

 

The kit says that it is easy to fit Bachmann couplings so I looked on the Parkside website for some.  In my innocence I thought that there would be one sort but there must be about five!  If anyone has any advice as to which one I should chose I would be grateful.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited January 21, 2015 by ChrisN

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Chris,

Those wagons are looking really nice indeed, well done!

About couplings, I was going to suggest fitting the NEM box and experimenting which coupler you need but I can't find *just* NEM boxes on their site. What I did find was this;

Bachmann 36-030 Mk2 Couplings NEM Shaft (Straight) with pocket (10)

A straight coupler already fitted with the NEM box (that is the little box these couplers plug in & out of, making them easily interchangeable) - all you then have to do when fitting is adjust for height and length when glueing the NEM box to the wagon. Might be best to pull the tension lock out of the box when glueing the box to the wagon.

Later on should you wish, you can simply pull the tension lock out of the box and exchange for Kadee's, Euro style, whatever!

Hope this helps,

John.

[ChrisN]

John,

Thank you.  It is so obvious now you have said it but to be honest it is a long time since I have done 00 and then it was all R-T-R stuff for the children.

 

I am going for tension locks as I need to get something up and running and everything takes me so long.  Maybe if the grandchild(ren) get really hooked we may change it later.

 

All the best.

[ChrisN]

As the A C Stadden figures have appeared and I have one or two of them I thought I would put up pictures of his railway staff.  I quickly gave them a coat of acrylic primer so that I could photograph them.  You can see where I missed but that can be touched up.  Painting should not take too long, as I do not have to think about what they wear.  I also have questions to make sure that I have identified each type properly.

 

 

Here they are all lined up.  It is a bit of an embarrassment for the Cambrian as they have had to have their photo taken outside the local narrow gauge station as theirs is not built yet. 

 

 

The two gentlemen on the left appear to be Station Masters.  I have as one of the extras a gentleman in a top hat, complete with waistcoat, tails and a button hole, yes you v=can see he has a flower in his lapel.  Now this could be a station master but the only one I have seen on the Cambrian in a top hat was the one at Aberystwyth which was a very important station.  Traeth Mawr is not that important.  Now I have seen ticket inspectors in coats this length so who should get the job and the house?  (I know the one on the left looks like Adolf Hitler but it is just the photo.  He actually has a goatee.)

 

The one in the middle I think should be a ticket inspector as he looks to grand to be anything else.  What do you think?

 

The last two although they look as if they could be stewards in a restaurant car, the Cambrian did not indulge in such luxuries, so I think they will have to be porters.  There is a sixty four second film on the SE &CR which has in the first few seconds a train arriving and the porters taking up their positions to carry luggage.  They look similar to these two lads.

 

 

The first three with the bandoliers are not refugees from the French Foreign Legion but are in fact train guards.  I assume that they could sell tickets to passengers they found without one. Again I assume that the guard with the longer coat is for the posher express trains and the short coated ones only get as far as Dolgelley.

 

Finally the last two, who I have labelled as engine men but on reflection could be goods shed staff or similar.  What do you think?

 

None of these look like wheel tappers or shunters who appeared to either have a gilet over their jacket or had material that was different on their sleeves.

 

What do you think?  Should I give this lot a job or should I attack the Dart Castings figures with a file to back date their caps?

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Anotheran]

I can't offer any useful suggestions, just friendly support in your quest for answers... because I'll crib them once you have them

 

Kind regards, Neil

[ChrisN]

I can't offer any useful suggestions, just friendly support in your quest for answers... because I'll crib them once you have them

 

Kind regards, Neil

 

Neil,

I noticed once I had done the post on a Facebook notification from A C Stadden about these figures now being available in H0 that he called them 'Station Staff'.  Perhaps the men with bandoliers are ticket collectors but I have not seen any photos of ticket collectors with bandoliers.  I will have to go back and look again at my books to check.

[Jaz]

I also would love to be able to give you some good information, but you know more than me, I think that being that good, they are likely well researched o would avoid filing them, unless you need something particularly and that is the way to get it.

I think giving them a job a good idea, one of he stewards who can't be popped into the train , could be used as a window cleaner, a bucket, and using polly/southern42's clever idea with the hankies for her Morris Dancers could give you a nice rag for the purpose. He could be caught mid thought (i.e not doing much except having the rag hanging from his hand....daydreaming LOL). anyway it's a thought, and buckets are easily picked up, Langley does them in their odds and sods at shows. AND they would be the right colour, you could just add some bubbles on top (good luck with that LOL......a bit of modelling 'water' plus a toothpick and whip it up.I'll trial idea for (foam on bucket) you if you fancy it.

[ChrisN]

This being 1895 and all I have had three more turn up for interview.

 

 

They have had grey acrylic slapped on them as it was getting late and I wanted to photograph them before the light went.  They will be tidied up.

 

The gentleman in the middle is one that is not in the Stadden sets but came as an extra from the pre-order.  He appears to be bigger than the other two and would be a convincing engine driver.  The one on the right is from the workman set and although he could be wearing a waistcoat and shirt it could just as easily be a sleeved waistcoat that most porters and shunters and maybe others wore.

 

The one on the right is also from the workman set and could be a porter or other station staff.

 

I have done some investigating about uniforms since the last post.  Why now, you say, why not before the last post?  Well probably because I did not know I needed to.  I have looked in my books, and on the internet and have found out some more information.  The 'Science and Society' site has lots of interesting images.  This is a good site for all sorts of things, however I will stick to what I have learnt about uniforms.

 

As indicated above the jackets with the different coloured sleeves are actually sleeved waistcoats and it appeared that porters wore them, however it appears that some porters, or staff who I am not sure of their jobs although probably goods staff and signalmen, wore short jackets.  It would appear that porters did not wear their jackets buttoned as the fashion was to wear the jacket buttoned only at the top, so they did that or not buttoned at all.  So I have staff who could be porters, signalmen and others. 

 

It does appear that guards wore bandoliers although the trend seemed not to be that common into the 20th Century.  In Science and Society it was the LNWR that seemed to carry on but the Midland did not appear to do this.  However, I have seen only on picture from 1870 from the LSWR where a ticket collector wore one.  He was distinguished from a Ticket Inspector who did not have one.  His bandolier was thinner than a guards one.  So my men with them will be passenger guards.

 

To add to the fun here is Guard Cudworth.  This picture is from The Story of the Cambrian by C. P. Gasquoine and is on Project Gutenberg.  You can buy this on eBay or download it for free from this site!  Guard Cudworth appears to be worth modelling but as he took charge of the most important trains they were probably the one to Aberystwyth so was unlikely to have ventured down the coast.  Still, I could have him in a brake coach looking out of a window.

 

Ticket collectors and Station Masters both appear to have worn long coats.

 

It is interesting in the Science and Society site and the same pictures are on the NRM website that the Midland changed its uniforms in 1902, and the kepi was changed for the more modern looking flat cap.  It appears that the GWR and LNWR also had more modern caps in the early 19th century.

 

So all is interesting, but who should I employ and in what capacities? 

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Anotheran]

Thanks Chris, those links are great. I very much like Guard Cudworth... lots of whisker work to do there! I also really like the back story you put into your thread... now it's all about recruitment. I guess I need to hold an audition for my choir!

[Jaz]

Well if they are Welsh getting a good tenor should be easy.

 

Chris N regards the 3 men, I too think the one on the left looks to be the lower order, the one in the middle definitely a boss, and the one to the right give the impression of a skilled worker. Side whiskers would look great.....a big bushy ginger beard with sideburns and some transparent brown low lights.......

[ChrisN]

Well if they are Welsh getting a good tenor should be easy.

 

Chris N regards the 3 men, I too think the one on the left looks to be the lower order, the one in the middle definitely a boss, and the one to the right give the impression of a skilled worker. Side whiskers would look great.....a big bushy ginger beard with sideburns and some transparent brown low lights.......

 

Jaz,

That is interesting.  I may well use the one in the middle as a driver, but he is quite big so he would need a big engine, well relatively big.  The one on the right I was going to have as a porter but he is older than the other two and they have posh jackets.  Ummm.........

 

I like the idea of a ginger beard.  Do they do ginger in Wales?

[buffalo]

Chris,

I agree with Jaz, the fellow in the middle looks more like a station master or inspector too me. His jacket is far too posh for a driver and I'm sure he wouldn't want to get it dirty. I'm not so sure about other railways, but on the GWR in Victorian and Edwardian days, drivers wore white fustian jackets and most photos show them buttoned only at the top button. Indeed, the rules stated that they should be clean when they dooked on. They ceased to be white in the 1900s but the style persisted, at least amongst older men, well into the twenties. It's rare to see firemen buttoned up this way, often they had all except the top button done up. The jackets could have lapels folded down if the top button was undone. Whilst you sometimes see others on the GWR using the single top button, I've often wondered whether its use was a mark of status.

 

Nick

[Mikkel]

Hi Chris, and thanks for these interesting links and photos of the primed figures. Mine are still as they came, I'm afraid.

 

I have no idea of Cambrian uniforms so can't really help there I'm afraid. I like to work on the Dart Castings with a file and filler to backdate them, but probably these could be adapted to look Cambrian with much fewer changes?

 

I have been wondering about the prototypes for Andrew's railway figures. They don't seem to be from one particular railway as I see it. The engine driver types with only the top button done that Nick mentions have a GWR'ish look about them in my eyes, as do maybe one or two of the uniformed staff. But it's not as if I'm struck by a particularly GWRishness of the range. Perhaps Andrew has simply let himself be inspired by various photos. Maybe we should simply write and ask him.

 

In general the uniforms look quite posh. I think I might pick a few from this set, and then see what the workers' set has to offer for the rest of the staff.

 

BTW I love this photo, proper railwaymen 

 

http://www.swindonviewpoint.com/content/gwr-works-early-engine-driver-footplate

[Anotheran]

Do they do ginger in Wales?

 

To flavour lamb and cake since it was brought back from the crusades 

 

But a more serious answer to your question is also yes, particularly in the areas that historically had a greater Irish influence, such as the Lleyn. But even in deeper Wales there was some ginger (again probably predominantly influenced by Irish genes). One of my 5 x great grandparents had a nickname of Cochiad Cwm Towy... the red grouse of the Towy valley... her father was believed to have been an Irishman who was murdered by a group of unnamed irate Welsh fathers whose daughters all gave birth within a short period to ginger haired babies!

 

Kind regards, Neil

[ChrisN]

Chris,

I agree with Jaz, the fellow in the middle looks more like a station master or inspector too me. His jacket is far too posh for a driver and I'm sure he wouldn't want to get it dirty. I'm not so sure about other railways, but on the GWR in Victorian and Edwardian days, drivers wore white fustian jackets and most photos show them buttoned only at the top button. Indeed, the rules stated that they should be clean when they dooked on. They ceased to be white in the 1900s but the style persisted, at least amongst older men, well into the twenties. It's rare to see firemen buttoned up this way, often they had all except the top button done up. The jackets could have lapels folded down if the top button was undone. Whilst you sometimes see others on the GWR using the single top button, I've often wondered whether its use was a mark of status.

 

Nick

 

Nick,

Thank you for your post.

 

I have noticed men wearing jackets with only the top button done up on other Victorian photos.  It was obviously the fashion, but perhaps only the fashion of those who could afford photo taken of themselves so to copy them would indicate taking on their airs and saying that you were of a higher social status.

 

The station Masters I have seen on the Cambrian have had longer coats and often, although not always, had them completely buttoned.  I will have to put up a post of the now, four contenders for the position of Station Master.  He is from the workman set so maybe he actually runs the local building firm, or perhaps he is a Station Inspector,

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris, and thanks for these interesting links and photos of the primed figures. Mine are still as they came, I'm afraid.

 

I have no idea of Cambrian uniforms so can't really help there I'm afraid. I like to work on the Dart Castings with a file and filler to backdate them, but probably these could be adapted to look Cambrian with much fewer changes?

 

I have been wondering about the prototypes for Andrew's railway figures. They don't seem to be from one particular railway as I see it. The engine driver types with only the top button done that Nick mentions have a GWR'ish look about them in my eyes, as do maybe one or two of the uniformed staff. But it's not as if I'm struck by a particularly GWRishness of the range. Perhaps Andrew has simply let himself be inspired by various photos. Maybe we should simply write and ask him.

 

In general the uniforms look quite posh. I think I might pick a few from this set, and then see what the workers' set has to offer for the rest of the staff.

 

BTW I love this photo, proper railwaymen 

 

http://www.swindonviewpoint.com/content/gwr-works-early-engine-driver-footplate

 

Thank you.  I think that you would be hard pushed to tell the difference between railways from the uniforms, well at least in black and white, as all dark colours would look the same and I think the shapes were similar.  Engine drivers with the top button done up appear quite frequently, and sometimes on others as well.

 

Some of these fit in with Cambrian staff quite well, where others would be more difficult, although I think I could justify them.

 

I have a number of Dart figures waiting for the treatment although it would be more difficult to match the kepis.  It might be worth asking him, apparently one of his 7mm figures comes directly from a photo.  Also these are just a little wooden so it would make sense if these came from photos.

 

I do like the link you posted, as you said real railwaymen.

[ChrisN]

To flavour lamb and cake since it was brought back from the crusades 

 

But a more serious answer to your question is also yes, particularly in the areas that historically had a greater Irish influence, such as the Lleyn. But even in deeper Wales there was some ginger (again probably predominantly influenced by Irish genes). One of my 5 x great grandparents had a nickname of Cochiad Cwm Towy... the red grouse of the Towy valley... her father was believed to have been an Irishman who was murdered by a group of unnamed irate Welsh fathers whose daughters all gave birth within a short period to ginger haired babies!

 

Kind regards, Neil

 

Neil,

Laugh, did I laugh.......  Oh well no excuse.  I will have to try.

[Mikkel]

Thank you.  I think that you would be hard pushed to tell the difference between railways from the uniforms, well at least in black and white, as all dark colours would look the same and I think the shapes were similar.

 

You may be right Chris, perhaps I'm just imagining things. I was thinking especially about the porters, which look very smart compared to most GWR ones I've seen. In any case, I'm not trying to denigrate Andrew's figures, they are very good.

[corneliuslundie]

Since you give a reference to Guard Cudworth from The Story of the Cambrian I assume you do not have C C Green's first Cambrian Railways Album, published in 1977. I picked up a copy yesterday at a show. Guard Cudworth is there, as are a lot of other Cambrian employees, including three ticket inspectors, with the comment that one is a "summer relieving" inspector so only has a uniform hat. The others have long double breasted coats and all have wing collars. Two of them are wearing waistcoats. The photo is quite good and you can see the quite large badges on their hats (different from Guard Cudworth's) and also some kind of fancy "ribbon" with lettering on their lapels.

 

But it is interesting that in the photos of loco crews several are wearing bowler hats. Now I know that they may have smartened up a bit for some of the photos but there are too many for it it be an isolated incident.

 

And many of both the drivers and the firemen are wearing white jackets buttoned at the top, though I think more drivers than firemen.

 

The caption to the Guard Cudworth photo says "Right through to the 1890s  the servants who directly attended the public wore collar patches of identification - PORTER or GUARD and senior staff wore the silver feathers emblem.

 

This book is a goldmine. Mine cost 7.50 secondhand. It is currently on Amazon from 4.44 plus postage. It was originally 3.99!

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

Since you give a reference to Guard Cudworth from The Story of the Cambrian I assume you do not have C C Green's first Cambrian Railways Album, published in 1977. I picked up a copy yesterday at a show. Guard Cudworth is there, as are a lot of other Cambrian employees, including three ticket inspectors, with the comment that one is a "summer relieving" inspector so only has a uniform hat. The others have long double breasted coats and all have wing collars. Two of them are wearing waistcoats. The photo is quite good and you can see the quite large badges on their hats (different from Guard Cudworth's) and also some kind of fancy "ribbon" with lettering on their lapels.

 

But it is interesting that in the photos of loco crews several are wearing bowler hats. Now I know that they may have smartened up a bit for some of the photos but there are too many for it it be an isolated incident.

 

And many of both the drivers and the firemen are wearing white jackets buttoned at the top, though I think more drivers than firemen.

 

The caption to the Guard Cudworth photo says "Right through to the 1890s  the servants who directly attended the public wore collar patches of identification - PORTER or GUARD and senior staff wore the silver feathers emblem.

 

This book is a goldmine. Mine cost 7.50 secondhand. It is currently on Amazon from 4.44 plus postage. It was originally 3.99!

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you for that.  I do have C. C. Green's book but I posted this picture as it was obviously in the public domain and not copyright.

 

I will definitely try for the cap badge, which will be interesting but the Stadden figures have a raised patch where it should be so it will make it easier/harder depending on how much the structure aids or inhibits me.  Label badges, umm.  I shall probably just do a line as I cannot imagine being able to write that small.

[ChrisN]

As I said to Mikkel, and have been spurred on by Jonathan's comment here are the four hopefuls for the Station Masters position.

 

 

You will notice that three of them look a little better than the last picture, yes they have more colour in their cheeks. 

 

Jonathan commented on the picture of the three Ticket Inspectors that goes under the title, 'Dignity'.  I think the three to the right certainly have that, and why not, they have an important position in what was then the lifeline of the country.  The two favourites for the job are in the middle although the one on the left does not appear to have an obvious handkerchief in his pocket although if chosen he will certainly have to find one!

 

The cap badges are obvious even on the one on the left who was a freebee.  It is also noticeable that he is larger than the others.  I am not sure he has the same 'style' or 'presence' that the others have.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited April 3, 2016 by ChrisN

[Donw]

Chris I found my tins of paint today the one I was recommended as a good choice for Cambrian wagons was Humbroil 106 available in enamel and acrylic. If I find my figures I have a set of crew model from an old cambrian photo.

Don

[corneliuslundie]

Handkerchief only if not wearing the uniform coat, I think from the Dignity picture (no pocket, otherwise). I have been trying to estimate the lengths of the coats in that photo and I think the nearest is the one on the right, though I agree that otherwise the centre two are the likeliest candidates.

 

Looking through other photos in the book, there are a couple oif others who could be Ticket Inspectors, including one with a bandolier and a beard at Machynllet (it is annoying that there are no plate nos and few page nos but that one is on page 50).

 

Another useful one is Llanbrynmair (page 23) as it will have had only a few staff and I think the centre gentleman is almost certainly the Stationmaster (despite the other hat). Another beard. insignia on the lapels, watch chain, waistcoat and quite short coat or jacket. It is frustrating that in so many of the photos one can't be sure of the functions of the individuals except the shunters.

 

By the way what about the white trousers of what looks like the fireman on page 16 and, on a different tack, the plate reading Cambrian Rail Company on the loco on page 14?

 

Hours of happy picture browsing. I must get back to those Mid Wales Railway timber wagons.

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

Don,

Thanks.  I have lots of greys but not that one.  If I can leave work on time on Tuesday I will see if I can get one.

 

WRRC recommend Humbrol 64 for wagons which is quite light.  This one appears darker.  Are you meaning this for the earlier darker wagons or the later lighter ones?