RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2014 Hi, below is a cropped image from a still taken from a DVD (Derbyshire Main Line Dvd (The Midland Railway Through the Peak District)) which shows a 4 car DMU (which I think is a Cravens) crossing the Headstone viaduct. The first 2 cars are in BR Blue, but the last 2 cars appear to be in the earlier BR Green with the BR crest on the side. I'm wondering, would this be quite common, or is this unusual, to have the two liveries mixed on a DMU set? Also, was a 4 car Cravens unusual, as well, as I can't find much mention of them, only 2 and 3 car sets. I apologise for the quality, when seen as a moving image it's a bit clearer. Thanks very much, Al. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) Mixed liveries were common on many types of "heritage" DMUS. From the many pictures I've looked at, mixed liveries seemed to be most common during the transition from green to blue. http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/8079537166/ Derby_LW_Sudbury by robertcwp, on Flickr W59528_Weymouth_13-8-67_m by robertcwp, on Flickr E59696_1971 by robertcwp, on Flickr Cravens_nrPreston_18-7-67 by robertcwp, on Flickr 124_Hull_9-68_m by robertcwp, on Flickr And some crop up in the blue to blue/grey period: 101-mixed_Hudd-ManVic_Saddleworth_3-9-81 by robertcwp, on Flickr 115_Rainhill_1980 by robertcwp, on Flickr 115_GerrardsCross_Aug-83 by robertcwp, on Flickr But I'm sure there are plenty of examples of NSE mixed with blue/grey and so on. Edited February 16, 2014 by BR(S) 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Scotland was full of mixed liveries in the mid to late 1980s, following the fire at Ayr depotEvery attempt was made to keep the blue / grey and Strathclyde separate, but eventually they gave in as having units in service became a priorityThe only main exception was the Class 107, where such a mix was very rare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I think you may find you are looking at two 2-car units, one blue, one green. Cheers, Peter C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 That's two twin sets Al. C6T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) I'm wondering, would this be quite common, or is this unusual, to have the two liveries mixed on a DMU set? Common enough that I've always wanted a blue/green DMU combo for a circa 1970 layout. I don't think I've ever seen a livery mix on an EMU from that period though. Mind you, that's another question! Edited February 16, 2014 by Pete_S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 16, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2014 I think you may find you are looking at two 2-car units, one blue, one green. Cheers, Peter C. That's two twin sets Al. C6T. Thanks both of you for pointing that out. Is only the leading car of the blue set in FYP then, as I can't see any sign of yellow on the end of the second car? It's an even more eclectic mix of liveries, in that case! Cheers, Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Thanks both of you for pointing that out. Is only the leading car of the blue set in FYP then, as I can't see any sign of yellow on the end of the second car? It's an even more eclectic mix of liveries, in that case! Cheers, Al. It must be remembered that many depots didn't keep their sets in fixed formations, therefore when a vehicle was due exam, repairs or works it would be knocked out of the set for relevant work to be done. A spare vehicle would be added to the set. So when a livery change came about a lot of mixed sets would be running round. The depot I worked at had blue/green and blue and grey/ green sets the later had blue/white and blue sets, the even blue/white and blue/grey and blue, and we did try to keep units the same livery but it didn't always work. Al Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Difficult to say, I wonder if the lead car has the yellow continuing on to the cab door even, not unknown on Met-Camm 101s. Have you tried pausing in another part of the footage Al? You might get a sharper image. C6T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) The leading car on that still image appears to be one with the yellow paint around the driver's door. There were a few like that in the early years, but I am not sure which depot/works was responsible. There are a few photo examples on Flickr. EDIT; Sorry, Classsix and I seem to have thought the same thing in parallel. Edited February 16, 2014 by jonny777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 16, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2014 Difficult to say, I wonder if the lead car has the yellow continuing on to the cab door even, not unknown on Met-Camm 101s. Have you tried pausing in another part of the footage Al? You might get a sharper image. C6T. Hi mate, I've tried pausing it on different frames throughout the sequence, but they're all much the same quality. Unfortunately the photographer doesn't pan at all, so you don't get to see the other end of the blue set except from the angle as above. This is the last frame before the blue set disappears behind the tree: But there's no sign of yellow on the cab end of the second car, so it must be SYP at best. Cheers, Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 16, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2014 I've found an online clip which includes the sequence with the DMU. It's here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152064140422835 and the DMU is seen starting at 1.08 into the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 While EMU sets are likely to be seen coupled together in different liveries (tripple unit Blue/Grey - Jaffa cake - NSE class 309 pictures exist for example) I cannot recall ever seeing a mixed set. Mixed DMUs still exist in recent times. 2-car 'Anglia' 170 with a 'One' liveried centre car added is a nice prototype one to model since there is no ready to run 'Anglia' liveried centre car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I'm sure that I have a photo of a mixed EMU, Suzie. I will try and dig it out and post it here if I find it. From memory, it is of a 4-EPB at London Bridge, but I could not say which variants are in the same set. I think it might be 1 blue/grey and 3 blue, or the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted February 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2014 I am sure in South Wales there were DMUs with three liveries in one set, at the time when the "reversed" livery was around, ie blue, blue/grey and reversed. But I have not photos, unfortunately - I had no camera in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I'm sure that I have a photo of a mixed EMU, Suzie. I will try and dig it out and post it here if I find it. From memory, it is of a 4-EPB at London Bridge, but I could not say which variants are in the same set. I think it might be 1 blue/grey and 3 blue, or the other way around. Well, I was wrong on both combinations. It was blue/grey and NSE. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 The leading car on that still image appears to be one with the yellow paint around the driver's door. There were a few like that in the early years, but I am not sure which depot/works was responsible. There are a few photo examples on Flickr. EDIT; Sorry, Classsix and I seem to have thought the same thing in parallel. The yellow cab door was on the original paint spec, so several works did them Donny, Derby, Glasgow etc were know to have done them. Al Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) Tyseley was good at mixing sets, here's one at Leamington in 1967. Apologies for the quality as it is a small area from the background of a slide. In September 1981 I travelled to Moor St on a set which consisted of a Class 122 in blue/grey, a Class 101 trailer in white/blue and a Class 105 DMCL(declassified) 53812 I think, in plain blue. Photos Copyright C E Steele Edited February 16, 2014 by TheSignalEngineer 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 While EMU sets are likely to be seen coupled together in different liveries (tripple unit Blue/Grey - Jaffa cake - NSE class 309 pictures exist for example) I cannot recall ever seeing a mixed set. I'm sure that I have a photo of a mixed EMU, Suzie. If we're doing EMUs as well, mixed sets are much rarer, but 319186 ran around with a DTS from 319046 in 1993. Third picture down here; note the altered TOPS number on 319046: http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class319_01.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 There were quite a few 'deliberate' mixed livery Souther express EMU units - mainly those with Pullman cars. Some of the late 1930s buffet units also had their buffet cars painted in Malachite green, with the rest of the set in the darker Olive green. There's also the 8-VAB with it's blue and grey buffet car in an otherwise blue set http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/6281025709 As diesels, there were various weird formations involving Hastings vehicles in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Here's a tadpole with a mix of blue and blue and grey vehicles http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/sales/img/foxley0079_1202.jpg. Not all the Tadpoles had blue/grey motor coaches - some of them got reformed in to blue/grey Hastings sets whilst still in Blue. And for bizarreness you can't beat this BR Green/Connex combination: http://www.hastingsdiesels.co.uk/news/articles/2003a03/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikes Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Having studied the image carefully I believe the liveries are as follows: Leading coach - Blue with wrap around yellow ends including the cab doors 2nd coach - fairly rare early BR Blue with small yellow panels and BR logos on the cab doors instead of under the first saloon window 3rd and 4th in BR green with small yellow panels Here is a link to the Birmingham Railcar Workgroups Class 104 website, if you look at the second row of photos there are some good examples of mixed formation and the early blue with small yellow panels colour scheme.... especially the 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th photos: http://www.brcw.co.uk/#/1950s-1960s/4563983126 Also, fully reccomend the following website (no connection other than a happy broswer!) as way to spend a couple of happy hours browsing some great historical photos showing mostly the northwest in the 60's, 70's and 80's, its great for DMU's of the area, plus general traffic to be found... http://sutherland.davenportstation.org.uk/ Hope this helps Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Having studied the image carefully I believe the liveries are as follows: Leading coach - Blue with wrap around yellow ends including the cab doors 2nd coach - fairly rare early BR Blue with small yellow panels and BR logos on the cab doors instead of under the first saloon window 3rd and 4th in BR green with small yellow panels Here is a link to the Birmingham Railcar Workgroups Class 104 website, if you look at the second row of photos there are some good examples of mixed formation and the early blue with small yellow panels colour scheme.... especially the 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th photos: http://www.brcw.co.uk/#/1950s-1960s/4563983126 Also, fully reccomend the following website (no connection other than a happy broswer!) as way to spend a couple of happy hours browsing some great historical photos showing mostly the northwest in the 60's, 70's and 80's, its great for DMU's of the area, plus general traffic to be found... http://sutherland.davenportstation.org.uk/ Hope this helps Mike That's great Mike, thanks very much for taking the time to do that. Two great links as well, I can see I need to stock up on biscuits and tea and spend some time on there Cheers, Al. Edited February 17, 2014 by acg_mr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikes Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) That's great Mike, thanks very much for taking the time to do that. Two great links as well, I can see I need to stock up on biscuits and tea and spend some time on there Cheers, Al. Al you certainly do need a good supply of tea and biscuits... there are many wonderful sights, and long lost routes to jog the memory. I have quite a large collection of OO gauge first generation dmu's, some in mixed livery sets due to spending hours looking through flickr...so i've dug out a few more links for you as you have given me another good opportunity to have a nosey and see what i can find, as new pictures seem to appear all the time. A class 108 power twin with a class 104 centre coach... http://www.flickr.com/photos/23987565@N05/10666928366/in/photolist-hfANb3-dG5CBs-j56s9j-aeMK2u-9qzoKY-bBrqRS-bruYhN-fje7SF-jJmPYn-jJodAf-jJocA9-buZtXe-jJoVij-jJoUoJ-ejdYTF-j578af-dG5Cxu-j3E4at-hdVTre-eoJhMk-eoJoiP-eoJpHV-epEDLf-eoJthR-epEykS-fAAuZT-9H17k6-dvpyeq-8kDdSG-bRFE5P-a7TURm-9Nu7yo-am3hR7-g4abFs-br2GUC-dX4YRT-dX4YTH-fxyqiE-c2RSgC-fsiSka-dh1xX9-dpNx8X-7BP6b4-e4nJPn-czg2oQ A class 105/101 pair... http://www.flickr.com/photos/55879910@N02/6891644983/in/photolist-buZtXe-jJoVij-jJoUoJ-ejdYTF-j578af-dG5Cxu-j3E4at-hdVTre-eoJhMk-eoJoiP-eoJpHV-epEDLf-eoJthR-epEykS-fAAuZT-9H17k6-dvpyeq-8kDdSG-bRFE5P-a7TURm-9Nu7yo-am3hR7-g4abFs-br2GUC-dX4YRT-dX4YTH-fxyqiE-c2RSgC-fsiSka-dh1xX9-dpNx8X-7BP6b4-e4nJPn-czg2oQ-fmRSw7-dqTPNm-cdQNhj-iRyq2t-buZ9Ck-e9nKyL-e53Lcq-aMRp5g-bswbNa-dmtHs6-8CQ8sN-8DAzfA-d35su3-cQQmDw-9VnMGo-9rdFwh-9r8w8v More unusual class 103/120 pair... http://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/9580486973/in/photolist-fAAuZT-9H17k6-dvpyeq-8kDdSG-bRFE5P-a7TURm-9Nu7yo-am3hR7-g4abFs-br2GUC-dX4YRT-dX4YTH-fxyqiE-c2RSgC-fsiSka-dh1xX9-dpNx8X-7BP6b4-e4nJPn-czg2oQ-aMRp5g-bswbNa-fmRSw7-dmtHs6-8CQ8sN-8DAzfA-d35su3-cQQmDw-dqTPNm-cdQNhj-9VnMGo-9rdFwh-9r8w8v-cjJNPh-cjJN5w-cjJNF9-cjJQmC-cjJNuL-cjJMUW-cjJNhy-cjJNXq-cjJMHd-7AXmCi-aemsmp-aBLZz8-8kcbUV-ggpDyN-axkkKj-dJa1xa-iRyq2t-jkoj3g Class 104 power/trailer... http://www.flickr.com/photos/33650137@N05/6133987728/in/photolist-am3hR7-g4abFs-br2GUC-dX4YRT-dX4YTH-fxyqiE-c2RSgC-fsiSka-dh1xX9-dpNx8X-7BP6b4-e4nJPn-czg2oQ-aMRp5g-bswbNa-fmRSw7-dmtHs6-8CQ8sN-8DAzfA-d35su3-cQQmDw-dqTPNm-cdQNhj-9VnMGo-9rdFwh-9r8w8v-cjJNPh-cjJN5w-cjJNF9-cjJQmC-cjJNuL-cjJMUW-cjJNhy-cjJNXq-cjJMHd-7AXmCi-aemsmp-aBLZz8-8kcbUV-ggpDyN-axkkKj-dJa1xa-iRyq2t-jkoj3g-azuCix-bna39A-jEzqxU-dga3r9-e983VW-eUrd2r-bnr9UV fairly rare class 104/107 three coach... http://www.flickr.com/photos/16205328@N02/8499465215/in/photolist-dX4YTH-fxyqiE-c2RSgC-fsiSka-dh1xX9-dpNx8X-7BP6b4-e4nJPn-czg2oQ-aMRp5g-bswbNa-fmRSw7-dmtHs6-8CQ8sN-8DAzfA-d35su3-cQQmDw-dqTPNm-cdQNhj-9VnMGo-9rdFwh-9r8w8v-cjJNPh-cjJN5w-cjJNF9-cjJQmC-cjJNuL-cjJMUW-cjJNhy-cjJNXq-cjJMHd-7AXmCi-aemsmp-aBLZz8-8kcbUV-ggpDyN-axkkKj-dJa1xa-iRyq2t-jkoj3g-azuCix-bna39A-jEzqxU-dga3r9-e983VW-eUrd2r-bnr9UV-7FcCr5-7FnTjt-7FcCsy-buZ9Ck heres a right mish mash 11car formation in three different liveries... blue and grey class 120 sandwiching a class 104 trailer, followed by blue, and white and blue 101's http://www.flickr.com/photos/45921043@N07/4378931111/in/photolist-7EXaEg-aaTDuH-deEWWm-9XE7nm-cbSshu-cJa6jd-ddAZcH-cfioMs-953ZM8-aMRPhz-7SLiaG-c34xUm-95Ahc4-gRm6f9-duGBbi-85f7Be-85fNdR-85iijd-8Gs2nZ-duNdbo-duNeoy-duNe4d-duGBwr-duNedL-duNewU-duNbZE-duNbBL-duNaM1-duNaC7-duNbkd-duNaXd-duGzHc-duGz5v-duGznH-dQnbeC-9x5sFp-gUCHXj-bna4Jd-9rwChJ-bA4Uyg-a81JhT-dpF2vq-iRCtgY-cPcMWN-9RR4pu-9SJtBK-dob5YA-9ZbEbR-eVxWFm-fss4TY-fscRQR superb class 105/101/120 combo in three different liveries... http://www.flickr.com/photos/61214079@N02/11719689146/in/photolist-iRCtgY-cPcMWN-deEWWm-9XE7nm-9RR4pu-9SJtBK-dob5YA-9ZbEbR-boKsBy-8tLkmQ-8tHhwr-dnH7Ao-gPwYJ5-eVxWFm-dke39E-dKEMW4-dp2i9L-dp27Hn-bgafbB-fss4TY-fscRQR-fscYH6-fsrxjw-fsczXH-fsrSJW-fsrJSj-fscmmn-fscZb8-fscswv-fsrwRN-fsrAYo-fscY4p-fscjQ8-fscuNc-fscddn-fscZKc-fscoTa-fscFuZ-fscUNx-fscPfF-fsrwsU-fscDKH-fsrvz5-fscMjR-fscbzp-fsrygS-fsrXPW-dKEMWT-h2BLH9-8hbnhe-8heCnS slightly off topic and far more modern... 2nd generation class 156/158 pair http://www.flickr.com/photos/65345069@N02/8209055602/in/photolist-dvpyeq-8kDdSG-bRFE5P-a7TURm-9Nu7yo-am3hR7-g4abFs-br2GUC-dX4YRT-dX4YTH-fxyqiE-c2RSgC-fsiSka-dh1xX9-dpNx8X-7BP6b4-e4nJPn-czg2oQ-aMRp5g-bswbNa-fmRSw7-dmtHs6-8CQ8sN-8DAzfA-d35su3-cQQmDw-dqTPNm-cdQNhj-9VnMGo-9rdFwh-9r8w8v-cjJNPh-cjJN5w-cjJNF9-cjJQmC-cjJNuL-cjJMUW-cjJNhy-cjJNXq-cjJMHd-7AXmCi-aemsmp-aBLZz8-8kcbUV-ggpDyN-axkkKj-dJa1xa-iRyq2t-jkoj3g-azuCix-bna39A and to round off with a very recent but cracking pair, 2013 railcar of the year winner class 119 with a wrap around yellow end class 101, and on the left a class 101 with oneblue and two green coaches at Ecclesbourne Valley Railway just last year... http://www.flickr.com/photos/63362496@N03/9488272138/in/photolist-fsrSJW-fsrJSj-fscmmn-fscZb8-fscswv-fsrwRN-fsrAYo-fscY4p-fscjQ8-fscuNc-fscddn-fscZKc-fscoTa-fscFuZ-fscUNx-fscPfF-fsrwsU-fscDKH-fsrvz5-fscMjR-fscbzp-fsrygS-fsrXPW-dKEMWT-h2BLH9-8hbnhe-8heCnS-8hbn1M-8heBAm-8heBXY-aArf6q-8hbgyF-8hewWU-8hevj7-8hevvG-8hbgkv-8hewmm-9TrsJa-9TuaQj-9Tuhoo-aJ4xfV-bLCt5Z-aJ4qQe-edQEYD-aJ4s1p-bVvh5G-a3Up5Q-a3Usis-a3RAgP-a3Uq8J-aK91yH A few more to wet the appetite! mike Edited February 17, 2014 by mikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 A few of Dad's photos. Ravensthorpe Class 124 Liverpool to Hull April 68 J1279 Ravensthorpe Class 124 Liverpool to Hull Aug 67 J1103 Rigton level crossing Class 101 Harrogate to Leeds June 68 J1327 Hellifield Class 101 Morecambe to Leeds Jan 68 J1213 There are probably some more if you have a good look through my flickr site. David 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted February 18, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2014 Mixed-livery sets were pretty much the norm at times of livery changeover. Not perhaps so much nowadays when so many liveries are applied by vinyl rather than coach-painted and done in a much shorter time usually to a whole unit at once. But untkil the advent of the sticky stuff the time taken to rub down and repaint a single vehicle led to coaches being repainted singly and put back into mixed sets. Thus we saw mixed green and blue units, sometimes green an blue-grey, mixed blue and blue-grey and mixed blue or blue-grey with reversed though the latter was perhaps more the exception than the rule as "reversed" livery vehicles were generally also stripped of asbestos and facelifted as well. Trains of matched-livery units which themseves were in different liveries were also commonplace. As the OP shows two 2-car DMU sets with one unit in blue and the other in green as an exmaple could be seen euring the changeover. I well recall seeing class 123 units with some green and some blue-grey vehicles in the same unit or with complete units repainted running with unrepainted sister units. In more recent times it also became common for cars to be mixed with b/g / NSE / RR / Scotrail in almost any combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now