bigherb Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Negatives: Injector pipe moulding, a big improvement on the Hornby offering although it would be nice if it were a lot finer but it's a moulding issue Shows how good Kitmaster toolmakers where when they could make a fair job of it with round pipes in 1961. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted July 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2016 An excellent model which is great to see, well done to Dave! This is noticeably better than the Hornby model although I do think the Hornby model still provides a good lower cost alternative. In this case I think choice is good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted July 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2016 Hornby 08. For the starter Heljans 05 for the main, feel free to substitute with Hornby Q1 off the top of my head, or Bachmanns Bloo Pullman, 3MT, 16t mineral, there are others of course. From the sweet trolley Rapido's GMD Coffee and Mince Enjoy the hat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 Nice list but nope....keep trying. Lol The hats safe for now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted July 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2016 I don't need to keep trying, that's an accurate list showing several existing ready to run models that really don't need any improvement from aftermarket detailing products. Please advise then what details 'need' changing on any of the above illustrated? Edit for spelling I'll raise you a Bachmann 419 MLV and a Model Rail Dock Tank while we're at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 I don't need to keep trying, that's an accurate list showing several existing ready to run models that really don't need any improvement from aftermarket detailing products. Please advise then what details 'need' changing on any of the above illustrated? Edit for spelling I'll raise you a Bachmann 419 MLV and a Model Rail Dock Tank while we're at it. Sorry but I'm not going to rise to the bait. We all have our opinions and I applaud the fact that we are allowed to voice them here. Yours and mine differ I'm afraid. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 And the Model Rail Sentinel. You (?) managed very fine moulded open frame steps on that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 I don't need to keep trying, that's an accurate list showing several existing ready to run models that really don't need any improvement from aftermarket detailing products. Please advise then what details 'need' changing on any of the above illustrated? In the case of the 2MT - there's plenty I could change: Turned brass whistle Etched ladder on rear of tender Thinner etched lamp irons Changing some of the over-size backhead fittings (in fact, this model is pretty unrealistic in this respect..) Flat down the visible join line up the centre of the chimney. Fill the split in the centre of the eccentric crank Fitting flush glazing Fitting etched front footsteps But would I? I'm not sure this thread is the right place to discuss rtr models not requiring more detailing, it is a balance of price/value and sheer material tolerance/practicality Can we please bring this back on topic... Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted July 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2016 Models are no different to anything else we manufacture in that they're a collection of compromises. Where you sit on the question of detail vs. cost, fidelity to prototype vs. robustness and suitability for running on a layout and all the other compromises is a personal thing but I think this J94 has hit a nice sweet spot of good detail and finish at a reasonable cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Based on a secondhand Hornby J94 with details from RT Models in the main and some Ambis bits. The only thing I couldn't do anything about was the Tank seam which is not as obvious in real life. The main items in the improvement area the Lost wax Ejectors ,new Castings for the Chimney, Dome , tank fillers and etched Footplate Steps and Rear Bunker and etched Bufferbeams. Cost about £40 and bait of carving and a simple one colour respray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 I don't need to keep trying, that's an accurate list showing several existing ready to run models that really don't need any improvement from aftermarket detailing products. Please advise then what details 'need' changing on any of the above illustrated? Edit for spelling I'll raise you a Bachmann 419 MLV and a Model Rail Dock Tank while we're at it. 2MT alternate chimneys? Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
status quo Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Hi Dave Im the proud owner of the J94 which you donated to Perth model railway club at the show. It was signed by yourself and the first off the production run. I personally think its a great model and will be even better when I fit sound i it. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 Hi Dave Im the proud owner of the J94 which you donated to Perth model railway club at the show. It was signed by yourself and the first off the production run. I personally think its a great model and will be even better when I fit sound i it. Steve Excellent Steve, glad you like it and I hope it gives you many years of enjoyment. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Show me 1, just 1 UK RTR model that has never needed an after market detailing part (if your of that ilk to fit them of course) and I'll hereby eat my hat. It's sitting here waiting and smelling of delicious licorice by the way. Lol I wasn't expecting a response as I was just expressing a personal view, so thanks. With my comment, "I was hoping the fitting of aftermarket detailing parts might have been a thing of the past with this release" I'd have thought you would have realised I was talking specifically about the DJM J94 and more specifically about the running plate steps. There is no one more aware than me that all railway modelling, be it manufacture or actual modelling is a compromise but with posting such as this: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75838-djmodels-announce-new-models-in-n-oo-and-o/page-3&do=findComment&comment=1153894 you have raised prospective customers expectations significantly over the last few years to expect something special. With Andy Y posting pictures along with his improvements list of your J94/Austerity against Hornbys offering it is only natural to expect other people to offer their observations, comparisons and criticisms. In visual terms your model certainly seems to be an improvement in many areas but some details, as others have mentioned, do seem somewhat more clumsy. Regarding the steps would it not have been possible to mould them in segmental cross section (in plan view) so they would have presented a thin face when viewed from the 3/4 position but have retained full section depth down the vertical centre line so as not to compromise strength? Again as previous posters have noted DJM is quite capable of producing fine and delicate well moulded step. The Sentinel and Class 71 seem to provide good examples of this. As I've mentioned strength, the handrail standoffs/knobs appear to have a moulding line. I'm sure this will not be visible from normal viewing distances but are they made from plastic or metal? Also do you have any plans to offer the parallel standoffs that were fitted to a good percentage of the J94 and industrial Austerities on any future releases? Finally as you were so kind as to respond to my post regarding the steps, perhaps you could provide an answer to my supposition from a couple of posts further up. Will all axles be driven via gearing and if so does that mean the driven gearwheels are combined & integral with a plastic axle? Thanks, Porcy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted July 10, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2016 I will be looking over one shortly along with some detailing parts aimed at this make of model like the Geisl ejector plug to add to the RT Models range. The model certainly from looking at photos has my thumbs up. Www.rtmodels.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signaller69 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Popped into Hattons today, they have their versions (pre production presumably) on display and they do look excellent to me, particularly the weathered ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of IKB Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Coffee and Mince image.jpg Enjoy the hat Coffee and MINCE???????? and you want to eat a hat? What kind of places do you eat at? Yuck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted July 10, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2016 Sorry but I'm not going to rise to the bait. Well you condescendingly asked for examples of RTR models that don't 'need' any changes with aftermarket products, after Porcy Mane had not unreasonably, and correctly pointed out a couple of pieces which could be improved on the J94. (Note I have actually seen a couple) I provided a few which are widely recognised as not 'needing' anything doing to them and received a further condescending 'Nice list but nope....keep trying. Lol The hats safe for now!' from yourself. I asked you to validate your position, and you give the response above, a bit of a 180 degree turn. I'll leave it there. Regarding the 'need' that desire clearly varies from individual to individual and whichever model they are looking at. The 2MT I've illustrated is correct, otherwise I wouldn't have selected that specific model. I was thinking of picking the LMS Twins but didn't so it wouldn't be D&E biased. You could do that list from Whitemoor1 (Paul A) to the 2MT but if you look at the J94 pictures the exact same detail improvements could be made. And as he makes the point 'would' you do them, I suspect not which is perhaps why the likes of Brassmasters haven't done an upgrade kit, but they (and others), do for other locomotives that benefit from adding those refinements. What is clear from the pictures shown, and my observations of the model is that improvements can be made, why no bunker front detail for example if you're making a detailed backhead? I'm not sure of the validity of comparing it with the old J94, particularly if you're not comparing the same detail fit, (which these two models don't have), you don't find similar comparisons attempted with the Hornby Railroad and Bachmann Warships, we recognise and accept they are different era designed models. A more realistic comparison would be to compare two contemporary releases of similar types of locos like the J50 and J94, both 0-6-0's, different manufacturers and design approach, similar price point and likely to be bought by the same or similar customers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Another area where the Hornby/Dapol J94 scores way better than the DJM version... I'm referring to the vertical bars across the rear windows. Hornby/Dapol J94 DJM J94 Anyone doing etches to make the DJM flaw go away??? Not to mention the excessively thick glazing? I can already think on one other alternative for those ugly bars across the windows. That would be an aftermarket product... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 All these people finding fault from photographs before they have even got hold of a model. Was the moaning done at the time that it could have been put right, I wonder...... When my first order arrives I'll moan about anything nasty I find. Until then I'll wait for the loco to arrive in my hands. If it is nearly as good as the Beattie I'll be well satisfied. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ryde-on-time Posted July 10, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2016 Have to disagree about the window bars (horizontal, not vertical!) judging by the photos above The Hornby model, good as it was considering its age does not have the bars extending across either side of the windows where they were bolted to the cab. I think the DJM model does a good job of portraying this (considering some of the photos from those trying to stick the knife in are larger than life close ups), photos such as the first photo on this page show what they look like in real life https://locoyard.com/2012/09/19/a-tribute-to-the-hunslet-austerity-saddle-tank-j94-part-1/ I also don't see the problem with the window glazing. I look forward to receiving the models I have ordered to see properly but it seems it would only be visible in real life if I made my baseboards out of glass and viewed everything from below? For me the DJM model is a vast improvement because of the lack of join on the tanks and also because the prototypes very distinctive wheels are the correct shape, both wrong on the Hornby model and which has meant I never bothered with the old model Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ryde-on-time Posted July 10, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2016 Another area where the Hornby/Dapol J94 scores way better than the DJM version... I'm referring to the vertical bars across the rear windows. . Perhaps you should take your own advice not to pre-judge things? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54082-new-oo-gauge-class-73/page-66&do=findComment&comment=2336159 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 All these people finding fault from photographs before they have even got hold of a model. Was the moaning done at the time that it could have been put right, I wonder...... When my first order arrives I'll moan about anything nasty I find. Until then I'll wait for the loco to arrive in my hands. If it is nearly as good as the Beattie I'll be well satisfied. Les Certain people have better things to do... I never really wanted a J94. However since DJM has started a poll for the Class 86/87 (something which I want), I decided to actually go out and look at the various samples he's shown. And it turns out that there's a few things I think could've been better. And according to Ryde-On-Time, I should follow my own advice....Hence I don't pre-judge, I've waited, seen production samples and EP samples and made a judgment. Please do enjoy your model, I'm not stopping you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Have to disagree about the window bars (horizontal, not vertical!) judging by the photos above The Hornby model, good as it was considering its age does not have the bars extending across either side of the windows where they were bolted to the cab. I think the DJM model does a good job of portraying this (considering some of the photos from those trying to stick the knife in are larger than life close ups), photos such as the first photo on this page show what they look like in real life So why doesn't DJM's bars extend across either side? It is an etch anyway. Why have an etch and then "blobs" to continue it? Having "BLOBS" doesn't really make it look prototypical. Perhaps you should take your own advice not to pre-judge things? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54082-new-oo-gauge-class-73/page-66&do=findComment&comment=2336159 Thank you, I do follow my own advice, which is why I made a post about it! I've seen one and judged one... Thank you for pre-judging me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Having "BLOBS" doesn't really make it look prototypical. In some cases it does, it some cases it doesn't but commercial compromise can come into play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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