New Magazine?

[dibber25]

I've stepped away from this emotive thread but this comment made me think again. It's the proverbial head on the nail. This party line, trying to appeal to the largest possible market and gain readers at almost any cost, is exactly what is stifling variety or 'difference'. What the market needs is passionate editors that are their own men and have the conviction (and finances) to develop and explore particular niches or interests without the measure of sales or shadow of pure profit led company pressures. It is therefore, as a direct consequence of this, that anything new is likely only to come from small independent, less greedy, publishers that are not chasing every pound. Who knows exactly all the interests of the readership? By using focus groups and surveys you'll always end up with a middle-ground mush designed to appeal to the majority. Nothing wrong with that once, but we've got that already x 3. I've been told several times by editors that 'quality doesn't sell', especially in the context of lengthy highly specific articles.

When you've got 30,000-plus readers it is impossible to know all the interests of all the readership and certainly impossible to cater to individual tastes, you have to go for pleasing the majority. It is, however, a virtuous circle. We set out to please readers and (with luck and because we have a pretty good idea what our readers want ) that makes money. We don't set out simply to make money - I'm sure there are easier ways to do that. It is much easier to cater to a small group of like-minded individuals but that's a luxury you can only afford if you're a one man band with low overheads working at home, not supporting any employed staff and probably sinking a fair amount of your own cash into the publication. Jason Shron's comment about making a small fortune in model railways - by starting with a big fortune, can be equally true of magazines.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Grasslands]

Maybe drawings accessed through digital means are the answer. Magazines can't afford to spend 20% of their budget to please 1% of their readership (arbitrary figures, by the way, just intended to get across the idea) but maybe, if drawings were available cheaply enough they could be disseminated digitally. Of course, there's still a substantial cost because the draughtsman needs to be paid for his work. I love drawings - especially drawings of structures, but they are the worst thing to try and fit into a magazine. I agree that people are going to need drawings in the future but they'll have to get them the same way I've got many of mine, by researching original sources, museums, archives and the huge numbers of railway books which include such drawings.

CHRIS LEIGH

I think that is very logical Chris. I understand that a such a request is costly to a magazine, but digital plans would be a very useful medium (however anyone plans to make their model).

 

I also understand your point on 3D printing technology and in-house magazine skills (I only suggested it as a novel idea really).

 

Tom

[kevinlms]

I'd like to see more articles that draw together various RTR products into suggested coherent collections. The L&Y tank is an example. I have heard lots of people say I want one whether it fits their layout or not. Why not write an article suggesting stock and other locos that go with it, descriptions of areas and services it worked etc. I think marketing people call it link selling.

 

I accept this is prototype information in a modelling mag but it's there because a model exists and it's helping people to use it in an authentic way if they want to.

But some magazines already do this. In Model Rail recently there was an article on he various Mk2's, along with detailed information of the various versions & train formations. I agree that its important to have prototype information such as this, in a modelling magazine.

[Dave47549]

Magazines can't afford to spend 20% of their budget to please 1% of their readership (arbitrary figures, by the way, just intended to get across the idea)

 

Possibly another way to look at those figures is that 1% figure might grow if you did. Maybe not though, but.....

 

Perhaps a better train of thought is that of Phil's (?) comment that they can't persuade a sizeable proportion of their readership to renumber a diesel, yet it's that style of article that has been a regular feature over the years. Well, I happen to like 'drawing' articles regardless of prototype interest or whether I have any intention whatsoever of building them. That's what I like to see, if that doesn't fit a particular magazine's financial return, well that's fair enough also.

 

I think that the interest in this thread is natural, that there 'might' be a new title on the way. I also have the feeling that 'if' there is, that market are hoping it's not another RM/MR/BRM/HM-alike.

[Steve-e]

Another idea I would like to see is a Livery Time Line when doing a review of new items for example a Heljan Class 33 in Dutch Livery would happily sit along side Railblue, Railfreight, Intercity and NSE but not with all over 1960's Green or Freightliner, some of it just basic but if you've been out of the picture for a long time or a newcommer to model railways progressing from the basic train set then its good info so you know what fits with your time period. An Example is I missed the whole Big T Transrail Livery years came back just as EWS was starting and wondered what the Big T was for same for SATLINK which seems to have been around the same time Mid 1990's 

 

Although as ever Rule 1 applies and if your happy then so be just an idea to help modellers achieve a more authentic railway.

 

 

 

Steve

[Igor]

When you've got 30,000-plus readers it is impossible to know all the interests of all the readership and certainly impossible to cater to individual tastes, you have to go for pleasing the majority. It is, however, a virtuous circle. We set out to please readers and (with luck and because we have a pretty good idea what our readers want ) that makes money. We don't set out simply to make money - I'm sure there are easier ways to do that.

Have to please the majority? It sounds like you are stuck in the Emap 'big company' mindset. There is another way. I guess you would be drinking alone fairly quickly if you rocked the boat too much in such a publisher. I'd have to agree with Mickey, making money will be No. 1 on these publishers list and everything else a fairly long way down after that, let's be honest. There will never be room to change the format radically. Let us all know the way to easier money, please...

 

I used to read Rail enthusiast when I was younger and enjoyed the Model Rail pages and later modelling supplements because they were diesel and electric focused. Then when Model Rail was spun off as a separate mag it completely lost its uniqueness because it went across to covering everything in lesser detail, just like all the other main titles. I guess this was down to the same mass market attitude and money making potential from extra steam adverts. What a shame. At one Warley show I was told the original plan was actually for an all modern traction model mag but the idea was killed off. The idea resurfaced later in MRM (Warner's?) but it was half-hearted and didn't survive.

 

It is much easier to cater to a small group of like-minded individuals but that's a luxury you can only afford if you're a one man band with low overheads working at home, not supporting any employed staff and probably sinking a fair amount of your own cash into the publication.

I think you have gone to completely the other end of the spectrum to suit your argument. There is a middle ground of very small publishers that survive and make a living, but wouldn't turn enough profit to interest the big boys. So it can be done. MRJ would probably fit into this along with Scale Trains, and the Industrial magazine already mentioned. I don't think these are charitable organisations. I know it works in other sectors like 12inch railways (Irwell, Traction) and military modelling as well. Aren't some of the old Emap steam magazines franchised out to small publishers?

 

Jason Shron's comment about making a small fortune in model railways - by starting with a big fortune, can be equally true of magazines.

It's a nice sound bite but not true.

 

Many companies start small and grow, that's what business is all about. It is especially not true for magazines. There are magazines that have been bought out and made their original owners a substantial fortune. I was told Morton, Key and Warner acquired much of their portfolo by buying mags, many of them railway titles we all know.

[Arthur]

There you go Igor, you seem to have all the answers. Why not set up your own low investment, low overhead, minimal return, niche magazine and set a template for others to follow? Show the big boys how it's done.

 

Edited for spelling.

[Torper]

you have to go for pleasing the majority.

Which, sadly, almost invariably equates to dumbing down.

 

DT

[Andy Y]

I'd have to agree with Mickey, making money will be No. 1 on these publishers list and everything else a fairly long way down after that, let's be honest.

 

At least the industrial revolution gave entrepreneurs the chance to derive an income beyond the scope of an agrarian society in the clutch of land-owners. Since that point there has been a blend of ruthless industrialists to social reformers as employers so it's rarely as black and white as you may think.

 

Did we analyse the business ethics and CSR policy of the business that produced the last washing machine we bought? Did we opt to buy a Ford or a Morgan last time we bought a car just so we could feel part of an aspirational upper-middle ground in the world of motoring? I'll stick a flag up and say that our MD is a railway modeller and as much interested in the mag's content as he is in the P&L. Yes, he reads RMweb and has a laugh at some things as much as the rest of us; I wouldn't expect him to just have it as a plaything but I will say he fiercely guards RMweb's independence of brand and mind.

 

So I'd say your sweeping generalisation may miss some finer points of which you may not have any knowledge.

[edcayton]

I always liked it when they did track plan with the Little Camera icons on to show you where the photo was taken so you could compare each photo to where on the layout it was shot, dont seem to see it much these days in magazines.

 

 

 

I have been among the first to criticise BRM, but they have started doing just that lately, I'd like to think following comments on here about the need for track plans.

 

I will read about layouts not in my timezone/area etc, but will not read "how to "articles that aren't. I do think prototype articles are important-as so many people say we should be making models of the real thing, not models of models.

 

I can do without several pages of reviews, unless they are comparing similar models. I do like planning articles, both of the "adapt a prototype", and "maximum operation" type.

 

I admire MRJ, usually from afar as it is "out of my league", but I do really like the old-fashioned appearance. If a new mag came out I guess I'd spend even longer in Smiffs pondering. I would probably cancel my subs though, so I can't see there being any winners.

 

Ed

[CME and Bottlewasher]

I think someone was joking. I imagine they saw RM at one end of the market and MRJ at the other - so, in other words, the 'new' mag could be pitched ANYWHERE in the market. Otherwise, apart from specialist-society magazines, I can't think of anything that's OUTside that spectrum. 

CHRIS LEIGH

Hi Chris,

 

Had it on pretty good authority, from the horses mouth, so to speak, that a new 'un was being very seriously considered - I wont spoil their thunder though.

 

I, for one, am hoping that it comes to fruition. ;-)

 

I shall catch-up with this Thread, with great interest (always the last to know - LOL!)

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

[dibber25]

Which, sadly, almost invariably equates to dumbing down.

 

DT

No

[CME and Bottlewasher]

BTW, I have heard, within the past 24 hours, of yet another one, which is being considered, in both digital and hard-copy formats!

 

Exciting times!

[Dave47549]

If we are talking about magazines and what is in them ( i think Content is the word) its not about what me or anyone can do, its about what we like to read and look at

 

Thanks, you worded that a lot better than I did!

[James Harrison]

An interesting discussion. 

 

I read two magazines at the moment- RM and MRJ.  I used to read BRM and MR, but it started to get too expensive in terms of money and finding space to keep them all (even after I resorted to filleting the magazines and keeping only the articles relevant to my interests). 

 

Now as I see it (and of course your mileage may vary) we have several magazines that cater for the 'buy it RTR, plonk it on some track and run it as it came' crowd, and at least one magazine for the 'build it all from scratch in my fully-equipped workshop' crowd, but nothing really in the middle. 

 

What do I mean by in the middle?

 

The sorts who do go out and buy kits and build them.  The sorts who buy an RTR loco and will then set about converting it, maybe into a subclass, maybe into something completely different.  The sorts who rather than buying a cast resin building will instead have a go at scratchbuilding it from card or plastic. 

 

Now as a member of this group myself, I find it quite difficult.  On the one hand I can buy a magazine that is aspirational for me but that brings me crashing down when i compare my models to the work of the people contributing to it, or on the other hand I can buy the magazines that don't really hold much interest for me as a modelmaker but are quite useful for seeing what is available RTR to collect.  There is no magazine, really, that caters to the 'willing to have a go at making it myself' crowd. (My bold indicates those who would like to try their hand at kit or scratchbuilding but are put off by not knowing where to start, not knowing where to look for advice or by looking at what more experienced modellers are doing and writing themselves off as incapable).     

 

One of the things that I have been doing these last few years is shopping around for old 1950s/60s/70s model railway magazines for relevant drawings and articles to my interests (mainly Great Central Railway locomotives and rolling stock).  Now if I compare the makeup of those magazines to those available today it's quite interesting to see how the thrust of the older magazines is along the lines of, 'if you can't get what you want from a manufacturer here is how you can create it from x/y/z' (x might be taking a similar RTR loco and hackbashing it, y might be scratchbuilding it from household junk and z might be setting to with engineering tools and various gauges of brass). 

 

I would rather like to see a return of that sort of article, however considering how our attitudes toward scale finesse and detail have changed since the 1960s I am not entirely sure it would be welcomed by everyone. 

[Physicsman]

BTW, I have heard, within the past 24 hours, of yet another one, which is being considered, in both digital and hard-copy formats!

 

Exciting times!

I'm hoping that if something is going to happen, it happens soon.

 

Otherwise this thread is going to reach 100 pages and Mickey might run out of quips!

 

Jeff

[Andy Y]

Now as I see it (and of course your mileage may vary) we have several magazines that cater for the 'buy it RTR, plonk it on some track and run it as it came' crowd, and at least one magazine for the 'build it all from scratch in my fully-equipped workshop' crowd, but nothing really in the middle. 

 

What do I mean by in the middle?

 

For the nearest example to hand: BRM March 2014

 

The sorts who do go out and buy kits and build them.

 

Phil Parker buys and builds an RT Models Sentinel etched kit.

 

The sorts who buy an RTR loco and will then set about converting it, maybe into a subclass, maybe into something completely different.

 

Howard Smith re-works the Ixion Fowler into a different variant.

 

The sorts who rather than buying a cast resin building will instead have a go at scratchbuilding it from card or plastic.

 

Phil Parker scratchbuilds a Goods Office in the Building your 1st Layout supplement (aimed at beginners rather than just plonk and play).

 

Plenty other content in the mag too and more examples in previous issues and within other mags too. Sometimes I don't get all that 'we' are getting beaten up about.

[stewartingram]

BTW, I have heard, within the past 24 hours, of yet another one, which is being considered, in both digital and hard-copy formats!

 

Exciting times!

I thought one of them had already been released? We've had an A4 and a Coronation LE model from them already....

 

Stewart

[Ben Alder]

"The sorts who do go out and buy kits and build them.  The sorts who buy an RTR loco and will then set about converting it, maybe into a subclass, maybe into something completely different.  The sorts who rather than buying a cast resin building will instead have a go at scratchbuilding it from card or plastic. "

 

While still wishing for a return of Morrill or its like, don't forums, and this one in particular, manage to incorporate much of this, and in a far more interactive and immediate way than a magazine can.I get far more inspiration and ideas from the web now than from the "popular" monthlies.

[tomparryharry]

You mean, as in the wrong gauge & track construction methods were chosen?

Oh No! A period on the Naughty Step for you, Young Sir!!!!

 

Ian

[Mike Storey]

"The sorts who do go out and buy kits and build them.  The sorts who buy an RTR loco and will then set about converting it, maybe into a subclass, maybe into something completely different.  The sorts who rather than buying a cast resin building will instead have a go at scratchbuilding it from card or plastic. "

 

While still wishing for a return of Morrill or its like, don't forums, and this one in particular, manage to incorporate much of this, and in a far more interactive and immediate way than a magazine can.I get far more inspiration and ideas from the web now than from the "popular" monthlies.

 

Yes Ben, they do. However, when I have then proceeded to try to follow some of the good ideas into an actual piece of modelling, I find I need to print them out, as trying to follow it on the laptop whilst doing it has not proved very practical! The quality of photos I can print, even using photo quality paper is nowhere near as good as the mags. That is why I value the printed versions, but only if the article is comprehensive enough and, when making up something from a single manufacturer, adds more to my knowledge than just reading the manufacturer's instructions, or when proposing, from the writer's longer experience than mine, the best or most suitable method for a particular result, rather than just one solution. As said earlier, this is usually done quite well already for loco and rolling stock work, but rarely so well for other matters, in which I know I'm defective, having more experience with rolling stock.

 

I, maybe like others, continue to buy mags for such help as any book on such matters tends to get out of date so quickly, such is the pace of development these days.

[JohnR]

I've stepped away from this emotive thread but this comment made me think again. It's the proverbial head on the nail. This party line, trying to appeal to the largest possible market and gain readers at almost any cost, is exactly what is stifling variety or 'difference'. What the market needs is passionate editors that are their own men and have the conviction (and finances) to develop and explore particular niches or interests without the measure of sales or shadow of pure profit led company pressures. It is therefore, as a direct consequence of this, that anything new is likely only to come from small independent, less greedy, publishers that are not chasing every pound. Who knows exactly all the interests of the readership? By using focus groups and surveys you'll always end up with a middle-ground mush designed to appeal to the majority. Nothing wrong with that once, but we've got that already x 3. I've been told several times by editors that 'quality doesn't sell', especially in the context of lengthy highly specific articles.

 

As I said earlier, one of the strengths of MORILL was Iain Rice as editor. It had his stamp on it as editor, and his modelling philosphy engaged a great many readers.

[Clive Mortimore]

Is there a need for a new magazine for the likes of me?

 

Why I do not buy the present crop of magazines. I am not a great fan of the layout type articles.   I do at times enjoy the photos of other peoples layouts but the story behind the model is normally uninteresting to me. Double page reviews just bore me, just tell us the model is rubbish and will be better once run in. How I built my model loco, coach or building can be interesting but without a drawing so someone else can do likewise they end up pointless. Operation and other prototype in formation peices usally only scratch the surface and what is written I normally already know. As for how to do articles, like the prototype ones, I already know the information and find things are repeats.

 

 

I recently have purchased some magazines. MRJ for Geoff Kent's coach building essays.   HR for the photos of their brake tender because you cannot indicate the potential problems without seeing the thing. MR for the track plan booklet, it featured Tinsley srevicng depot, a planned future project of mine not using the plan in the booklet.

 

I did look at the high end market magazine in my local model shop today.....seeing the model lady sitting on the station bench seat with her legs daggling in mind air had me thinking "high end"??????

 

What do I want from a magazine, not much these days. I find prototype information from old railway documents, old railwaymen, books and the internet. Modelling tips, yes there is still a lot I could learn but most comes from chatting to other modellers either face to face or via some other means of communication. A six monthly album of good layout photos would suit me fine. 

[Steve-e]

I find the magazines that we have at the moment satisfy my needs and regularly buy Hornby Magazine, BRM and Model Rail , Railway Modeller less often and any others never. I think they pitch just right for me and would place myself in the just below middle category which seems to be mentioned but what they do offer is inspiration which I think is right we need to encourage new life into the Hobby and if someone stops for a second while browsing the latest PC/Camera/Genealogy magazine and thinks that looks interesting I may have a go at that opens it up likes the content and feels the same then surely it’s all good for the Hobby as a whole.

 

My previous posts on the subject seem to have been unnoticed but the ideas I suggested would help to take the reader a step up the scale which again can’t be a bad idea for the hobby as it needs to be ever evolving or will die out. The Model Rail build it series I thought was an excellent idea I didnt build the layout personally but took ideas away and did play with the Scalescenes kits and hope that that retailer got alot of additional business from his tie up.

 

Other ideas I would suggest for the hobby in general are

1. Taking the Hornby Track Mat plan and evolving it from the track pinned to a board through to an exhibition quality layout, you'd be struggling to fit it into the average car so not an exhibition layout but one of that quality. This way the track etc can be built up in stages. The recent part work does this to an extent but the way I suggest would certainly be cheeper for the modeller/parent who we are trying to attract.

2. More minimum space layouts as this is often the excuse for not getting into the Hobby more.

 

3. Exhibitions to follow a trail from the basic roundy, roundy Thomas layout through to the quality Club layouts to show the public what is possible at each stage as I feel exhibitions are a great way to introduce those on the edge or those just starting out a great way of showing whats possible and as such well as been a platform for those at the Higher end of the scale to showcase their skills.

4. Include part finished layouts at Exhibitions so modellers/Public can see how a Layout is built again its all about evolution.

 

Back to the original post about a new magazine, I can see where some are coming from with the need for a higher level magazine in the sense of modelling (NOTE this is different to a Model magazine at High level ) and if there was sufficient demand I'm sure there would be one, however at the moment I wouldn't be interested as it would be a bit above my comfort zone.

 

Now what I do think there is, is scope for a Traction style magazine but in reverse with Diesel and Electric modelling taking the majority of the magazine with an insparation section to pad it out with articles on the past and present Diesel and Electric railway scene remember what happens today is history tomorrow.

 

 

  Anyway hope that is some food for thought for any editors reading  

Steve

[dibber25]

 

For the nearest example to hand: BRM March 2014

 

 

Phil Parker buys and builds an RT Models Sentinel etched kit.

 

 

Howard Smith re-works the Ixion Fowler into a different variant.

 

 

Phil Parker scratchbuilds a Goods Office in the Building your 1st Layout supplement (aimed at beginners rather than just plonk and play).

 

Plenty other content in the mag too and more examples in previous issues and within other mags too. Sometimes I don't get all that 'we' are getting beaten up about.

Yes, it's amazing isn't it, Andy. The magazines are being criticised for NOT doing something that they DO month in and month out! I could make exactly the same points about recent issues of Model Rail. We've have had a guy convert a Bachmann LNER Mogul into a different class, we have had countless conversions, changes, detailings. I've built card buildings. Messrs Marriott and Nevard have built numerous minimum-space layouts and described how they built every one.We're definitely NOT doing something right, though. We're clearly not actually getting people TO NOTICE that we do all these things. True, we have to present it in a way that's accessible to those who don't read thousands of words of text or have a lifetime's experience in silver soldering, but we do it nevertheless.

CHRIS LEIGH