Bachmann Peppercorn A2

[JeremyC]

I think that the pipe and rod on the A1 firebox rhs should also be present on the A2.

Also, whereas the inspection covers on the A1 are underscale, those on the A2 seem slightly overscale and should they really be oval? Of course, they seem oval in any broadside drawing, but I believe they are circular in reality

Alan

 

The inspection covers are oval, they have to be. The doors are fitted inside the boiler shell [so the pressure presses them tighter onto the joints] and held in place by stong-backs. The doors are oval so they can be put through the holes from the outside, which would be impossible if they were round.

 

Jeremy

[bluex5]

As above, they are manway type joints which are usually true ellipses.

[benachie]

The inspection covers are oval, they have to be. The doors are fitted inside the boiler shell [so the pressure presses them tighter onto the joints] and held in place by stong-backs. The doors are oval so they can be put through the holes from the outside, which would be impossible if they were round.

 

Jeremy

I am puzzled by this. Are we talking about the same thing? Could you point me in the direction of a photograph showing oval covers as all that I have seen are definitely circular.

Alan

[JeremyC]

I am puzzled by this. Are we talking about the same thing? Could you point me in the direction of a photograph showing oval covers as all that I have seen are definitely circular.

Alan

Boilers have two different penetrations for washing out / inspection. There are washout plugs which are round. These are threaded holes which are closed by plugs screwed in from the outside. The other is the type I mentioned [often known as mud-holes].

 

In the picture of Bachmann's Blue Peter [in Bob-65b's post] the washout plugs are [i think] under the four round covers high up on the firebox as well as the round hole in the cab side. The eliptical covers on the firebox sides show a line across them which represents the strong-back.

 

Boiler Mudholes Clear pics seem hard to find, but this page has a slide show which might help. There are also a couple of photos about a 1/4 of the way down this Page

 

Remember that what you see in an in service loco is the boiler cladding, the holes in which may not actually be the same shape as the ones in the actual boiler!

 

Hope this helps

 

Jeremy

[benachie]

Jeremy,

"Remember that what you see in an in service loco is the boiler cladding, the holes in which may not actually be the same shape as the ones in the actual boiler!"

Exactly - and what you see is always circular. Compare Bob's picture of the real BP linked in his 23 December posting

http://andrewstransport1960.fotopic.net/p47887579.html

with his picture of the model BP in his 24 December posting. The circularity of the cladding holes is most clearly shown in locos in LNE livery where the hole is white-lined. See

http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/midlands/mspage22.htm

about a third of the way down for the best view.

Alan

[micklner]

Just seen a Blue Peter in my local Modelzone the build quality is diabolical. Large gaps between Cab , Boiler and Footplateand a very low cab at the rear.

The gap between footplate and boiler if built correctly would actually make the Cab straight. A Apple Green version also on display had a slight rear drop and no gaps on the bodywork.

 

Is Blue Peter a very expensive rush job ??

[luton town]

picked up a blue peter from my local model shop today and i have to say it looks very good,can not wait to get it on the layout and see what its performance is like

[JeremyC]

Jeremy,

"Remember that what you see in an in service loco is the boiler cladding, the holes in which may not actually be the same shape as the ones in the actual boiler!"

Exactly - and what you see is always circular. Compare Bob's picture of the real BP linked in his 23 December posting

http://andrewstransp.../p47887579.html

with his picture of the model BP in his 24 December posting. The circularity of the cladding holes is most clearly shown in locos in LNE livery where the hole is white-lined. See

http://www.docbrown....ds/mspage22.htm

about a third of the way down for the best view.

Alan

In my opinion, the picture of BP at Barrow Hill suggests the ones on the firebox are eliptical [comparing them with the circular one on the cab side], though nothing like as markedly as they are in Bachmann's model. To me it looks as if they've taken the dimensions of the flange on the cladding plate recess as the door size.

 

On the general point that they are always circular I think this picture of Green Arrow shows that is not so.

 

Perhaps someone can provide the definitive answer, but I don't think its worth arguing about, I suspect its one of these 'depends on period or works that did the job' problems

 

Jeremy

[G-BOAF]

Just seen a Blue Peter in my local Modelzone the build quality is diabolical. Large gaps between Cab , Boiler and Footplateand a very low cab at the rear.

The gap between footplate and boiler if built correctly would actually make the Cab straight. A Apple Green version also on display had a slight rear drop and no gaps on the bodywork.

 

Is Blue Peter a very expensive rush job ??

 

Discussed above, esp 34C explanation that the footplate is susceptible to deformation in mass production environment.

 

Your point about the absence of the gap yielding straight cab is probably correct. But I have yet to have an answer to my question based on the following analysis:

 

If gap is removed,cab will be higher, but therefore not touching cartazzi truck.

If cab is not touching, what is supporting the back half of the body?

In other words, if cab was pulled down during assembly of body to chassis (as rear screws tightened), what was it pulling down against (i.e. reactionary force to cause footplate to bend)?

 

I assume that the front screw was put in first during assembly.

 

I'm quite happy to straighten my cab, but don't want to whole body to then be on an incline!

 

I wouldn't say rushed assembly, I would say slight design fault resulting in bending during assembly. Maybe harsh, but I feel true. Your description of a rear droop on apple green example would confirm this.

 

What is required is for someone with TWO A2s to experiment. I say two because if things start going wrong with one (body goes back on at an angle, for example), you've got another as a datum to restore it against (and advise against any more fiddling!)

[micklner]

There is something bizarre about Blue Peter I have seen today. The most noticable of the "gaps" is the one between the Cab "V" edge and the Boiler . The one example I have seen today had a gap of between 1 and 2 mm between the parts.

As the latest version has a different Boiler Moulding to the Apple Green version perhaps this is the problem , or the one I have seen is a one off fault ? The Apple Green versions dont appear to have the obvious gaps on the few I have seen. The "gaps" correspond with the wrong angle of the Cab and Footplate if it is possible to straighten the rear of the footplate hopefully that would remove the "gaps" at the same time .

I have had another look at the excellent pictures posted on the previous page and there is no obvious gap between the Cab and Boiler at the "V" on those Locos. They do however have the "slight gap" between firebox and footplate in front of the footplate curve. Imagine this closed up and the Cab Body will lift at the same time to the rear.

The BR livery sadly doesnt help as the Orange Lining on the footplate/cab also exagerates the look of Cab droop problem .

 

cheers

[Harry Basset]

Just received my Blue Peter today, number 2001. Full marks to Rails of Sheffield for honouring my original order price. I am quite happy with it except for the incorrect angle of the cylinders and slide bars, has anyone tried to correct this yet?

Regarding the mud hole doors, if I remember correctly those near the top of the firebox are known as hand hole doors and those at the bottom are mud hole doors. The actual doors are oval shaped and flanged to fit into corresponding oval holes in the boiler shell, they are secured to the shell by strongback or bridge pieces as shown in the photo of a door ready to be fitted into Canadian Pacific. The hand hole doors on Blue Peter have a circular bridge casting which fills the hole in the cladding and corresponds quite closely to the effect depicted by Bachmann. The oval doors have a threaded stud and are are drawn tight against the boiler shell by tightening a nut on the stud against the bridge piece. This stud may be drilled and tapped so a tool can be inserted to avoid the door being dropped through the hole while being fitted.

[benachie]

Jeremy,

Your "Green Arrow" picture goes back to my original point - the slope on the firebox in any side-on view, photograph or drawing, makes the circular plates LOOK oval. If Bachmann are correct then a very large number of kits and rtrs are wrong! However, I'm sure someone on RMWeb should be able to give us a definitive answer.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Alan

[micklner]

Jeremy,

"Remember that what you see in an in service loco is the boiler cladding, the holes in which may not actually be the same shape as the ones in the actual boiler!"

Exactly - and what you see is always circular. Compare Bob's picture of the real BP linked in his 23 December posting

http://andrewstransp.../p47887579.html

with his picture of the model BP in his 24 December posting. The circularity of the cladding holes is most clearly shown in locos in LNE livery where the hole is white-lined. See

http://www.docbrown....ds/mspage22.htm

about a third of the way down for the best view.

Alan

 

With regard to the Cab saga.

 

Looking at the photos linked above , the Black and White photo shows the Loco footplate/steps higher then the tender plate/ steps. The Barrow photos show the exact oppositte the Cab area is now lower than the Tender.

Perhaps this explains why Bachmann version has the A2 modelled with lower steps etc.

[robmcg]

With regard to the Cab saga.

 

Looking at the photos linked above , the Black and White photo shows the Loco footplate/steps higher then the tender plate/ steps. The Barrow photos show the exact oppositte the Cab area is now lower than the Tender.

Perhaps this explains why Bachmann version has the A2 modelled with lower steps etc.

 

There would have been considerable variation in ride height when fully loaded with coal and water, also the age and setting of springs would be an influence, and general running would accomodate a few inches of vertical play.

 

Just a thought, having ridden on several similar mainline locos back in the 60s.

 

Rob

[benachie]

Jeremy,

"Perhaps someone can provide the definitive answer, but I don't think its worth arguing about, I suspect its one of these 'depends on period or works that did the job'"

I suspect you're right. Certainly the Bachmann representation doesn't tie in with this

http://georgestrainpics.fotopic.net/p64136891.html

On my earlier point about the pipe+rod on the lower rhs firebox, I notice the holes for these are present in the cab front but not in the footplate. By the way, the rod does not go as far to the front as on A1s and some A2s lost the pipe in later life whatever it was for (see picture of 60528 above).

It has been suggested that the unsightly seam above the sandbox fillers is to allow for different boilers. Is it not more likely that the cab/firebox/upper boiler were carried over from the A1 moulding (albeit with different mudhole patterns) and the seam represents the join up to the different footplate? There is also a seam in the footplate just in front of the firebox and the holes in the cab mentioned above will be a hangover from the A1.

By the way, shouldn't the tender front be higher on early-liveried A2s?

 

Alan

[Harry Basset]

The Bachmann Blue Peter matches the picture of 60528 very closely. The circular caps cover the doors at the top of the firebox and there are strongback or bridge pieces over the doors halfway down the firebox giving access to the water space. The door at the bottom of the front and back of the foundation ring, not depicted on the model, also have strongback bridges. It seems to have been an LNER idea to have the circular caps for hand hole doors.

 

The NELPG website shows a picture of Blue Peter at ICI Wilton and shows the circular caps at the top of the firebox and the bridge pieces lower down all as faithfully depicted by Bachmann.

[benachie]

Harry,

It seems to me that the 60528 mudholes are like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boiler_handhole,_Clearwell_Caves.jpg

which doesn't seem to me to match Bachmann. The internal hole is indeed slightly oval but the cover itself is round.

I wouldn't put any faith in the preserved BP though possibly Bachmann did. We really need to know what it was like in '62-'66.

Alan

[Harry Basset]

Alan

 

That door in the picture is not fitted correctly, both feet of the bridge piece should be on the boiler shell.

I don't understand your comment about not putting any faith in the preserved Blue Peter. When we overhauled it at ICI Wilton we used all the doors, circular caps and bridge pieces which were originally fitted in BR service. The boiler and indeed all the loco underwent stringent checks while being overhauled and reassembled and certified for main line running.

 

Mike

[benachie]

Mike,

Yes the door is just loose.

The Wilton overhaul was, I believe, over 20 years after withdrawal and the question remains "Is the Bachmann model correct for 1962?"

Alan

[silverlink]

Silverlink, what did you do to Velocity to get the cylinders at the correct slight incline? They appear to be inclined the wrong way on the other two, and my BP is distinctly horizontal! Velocity really looks beautiful

Got to put my hands up here & say I haven't done anything! It's just as it came. I did notice it for the first time the other day & checked it out and found it's the complete cylinder thats slightly warped so I can't do anything with it. Since putting up pictures I have been busy weathering & all three now have a dusting of dirt & grime + real coal in tender. With only five weeks to go to Docaster show I am trying to get all loco's sorted for Haymarket Cross & with around 80 to do it's a big job. Also been adding extra 40 seagulls to layout!!! what a job, thanks for painting them for me Geoff, don't know how you do it. To all RMweb members please come along & see us & have a chat, we will be pleased to show you round the layout should time allow.

cheers

Ian

[Harry Basset]

Alan

 

Sorry, I finally understand your earlier comments. Bachmann have modelled Blue Peter very much as it looked when finished at Wilton in 1991 and I guess as it looks now while awaiting further restoration and boiler work. I've not actually seen BP since it was last at the NYMR. I am sure it weould have looked very much like it does now when it was withdrawn by BR so I believe Bachmann have done a good job on it and it looks reasonably accurate for 1962. I think this started as a discussion about boiler access doors and Bachmann have got them right.

 

Mike

[benachie]

Thanks, Mike.

Any thoughts on the lack of pipe and rod at the bottom RHS of firebox? What are they actually for?

Alan

[CUTLER2579]

benachie said:-

Jeremy,

Your "Green Arrow" picture goes back to my original point - the slope on the firebox in any side-on view, photograph or drawing, makes the circular plates LOOK oval. If Bachmann are correct then a very large number of kits and rtrs are wrong! However, I'm sure someone on RMWeb should be able to give us a definitive answer.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Alan

 

I will PM t-b-g later and ask him to have a word with a mutual friend of ours who worked in the Drawing Office at Doncaster,If anybody knows this Gentleman will.

Regards,Del.

[Harry Basset]

Alan

 

I think the rod in the picture of 60528 is to operate the front damper in the ashpan as it is connected to a bellcrank. The pipe was probably a water pipe from a valve in the cab to feed water from an injector into the ashpan to remove ash deposits during disposal. I will try and get confirmation, it's about 15 years since I last drove BP and I can't remember.

 

Mike

[benachie]

benachie said:-

 

I will PM t-b-g later and ask him to have a word with a mutual friend of ours who worked in the Drawing Office at Doncaster,If anybody knows this Gentleman will.

Regards,Del.

Thank you, Del, that would be most helpful. I think we need to be clear that it is not the shape of the actual door but the surrounding plate in the cladding that is at issue.

Alan