P2 No. 2007 Updates

[MarkC]

*grins*

[melmerby]

73ft 8 3/8in buffer to buffer according to the Isinglass plans

 

Edit: To compare a Brit is listed as being 68ft 9in buffer to buffer, and I believe Tornado is 72ft 11 3/4in

LMS Princess is 74ft 4 1/4in (AFAIK The longest conventional loco to run in the UK)

 

Keith

 

EDIT and a Coronation is only 6" less than a Princess so the P2 is not outstandingly long.

[Express Blue]

I'd suspect that if the P2 ever did come to Grosmont it wouldn't be there long.  The line is simply too sharply curved for pacifics, let alone a 2-8-2.  You'd end up with some serious frame damage.

 

 

The curvature of the line does not seem to have caused any problems to the frames of 60007 or 60532 both of which have seen extensive service on the Moors. Nor to to 60019/4464,60163, 71000, 70000 and several Bulleid pacifics.

[sng7]

Though i know for a fact the line from grosmont to whitby is so that may be what he is getting at

[Express Blue]

Though i know for a fact the line from grosmont to whitby is so that may be what he is getting at

 

 

Yes, Battersby Junction to Grosmont is OK. but Whitby to Grosmont is far too curved for a 'Pacific' but then, technically, it is part of Network Rail not the NYMR. 

[Pebbles]

Not convinced that the Princess class was the longest, how about the Raven Pacific with the original boiler coupled with the Gresley 5000gal tender which was close to 76ft.

[melmerby]

Not convinced that the Princess class was the longest, how about the Raven Pacific with the original boiler coupled with the Gresley 5000gal tender which was close to 76ft.

Is that with an eight-wheel tender?

 

It seems to be shorter than a Princess with a six-wheeler. The loco itself has 7" shorter wheelbase.

 

Keith

[burgundy]

Phil,

 

Regards modifications regards the wheelbase the whole design of the original P2 and our modified design has been put through VAMPIRE by Delta Rail. This is used in the industry to test new designs for rail interface, ride quality and other items.

 

Cutting a long story short, the original design did have a few problems, mainly caused by the front pony design.

 

It is interesting that with all the research into the original locomotives, we can find no evidence of the locomotives derailing other than in a shed yard, where nearly every other type of locomotive will probably have had an earth fault too, especially in Scottish depots. Contemporary reports vary with some saying how smooth the locomotives rode, whilst others say they were rough. Considering they ran over LMS metals, it is my opinion that if they had major problems i'm sure they would be banned. I have seen letters form the LMS regarding the engines and they seem perfectly happy with them, both at the design stage and during operation.

 

Anyway, the software was then used to test a redesigned front pony wheel using the V2 pattern (derived from the 8Fs built at Doncaster in the war).  Had the P2's not been rebuilt it is possible they would have gained this design of pony truck. The result is a ride quality and acceptance equal to Tornado. A few things are being tweaked, but all in all it has come out more than acceptable with evidence from the professionals to back it up. If it had come out otherwise i'm not sure the project would have got this far.

 

Andy

Just out of curiosity, was the Krauss Helmholz truck ever considered, either for the original or for the new build? It was used with considerable success on the continent; did it ever get used in the UK?

Best wishes

Eric

[t-b-g]

Just out of curiosity, was the Krauss Helmholz truck ever considered, either for the original or for the new build? It was used with considerable success on the continent; did it ever get used in the UK?

Best wishes

Eric

 

That is an interesting thought but I doubt that we will ever know if Gresley considered such a design although it is on record that he kept a close eye on developments abroad and wasn't against using ideas from overseas.

 

For the new build one, if there is a ready made solution with a proven design of LNER pony truck used on Gresley locos, then I can't really see the need to look any further than that.

 

Tony

[billbedford]

For the new build one, if there is a ready made solution with a proven design of LNER pony truck used on Gresley locos, then I can't really see the need to look any further than that.

 

 

Do you mean the Gresley pony truck or the LMS design that replaced it on the V2s?

[jwealleans]

The LNER Society magazine published an article about the new p2 pony truck design early last year.  One of the authors was a regular correspondent on this forum.  The technicalities of it went way over my head but the bottom line was that they'd simulated the design in whatever the package they use is called (VAMPIRE?  I really can't remember) and determined what needed to be done to the design to overcome the problems inherent in the original version.

 

Edit - I've been directed to this page where much of what I think I read in the LNER Society newsletter and a great deal more is available.

[The Black Hat]

Just to confirm, the reason behind the ban of engines on the NYMR is normally due to access to Whitby. The 8 wheel tenders are very tight on the approach to Whitby and as a result the engines are banned from working there.

 

60007 has been stopped from going and Im not sure if 60532 ever has. Engines on tours have seen the WCRC 8F make it there, but the tender here is 6 wheeled. It does show that an 8 wheel coupled engine can make it, but thats all down to tollerances on the engine. Whether the P2 would follow in Tornados use of remaining primarily for the mainline remains to be seen, as that policy really seems to be paying dividends at the moment....

[5944]

I understand it isn't the 8 wheel tender that's too much of a problem, it's lack of flexibility in the Cartazzi that causes damage to loco and track.

[MarkC]

The coupled wheelbase on the P2 is longer than the 8F too, is it not? Couple that with the aforementioned Cartazzi issue and you quickly realise that 'P2 to Whitby' is very unlikely.

[S.A.C Martin]

Do you mean the Gresley pony truck or the LMS design that replaced it on the V2s?

 

The LMS inspired design which was developed under Thompson is as far as I'm aware the type they are referring to.

[ahardy]

Apology time! 

 

For those with little interest in the P2 i'm sorry for bumping the thread and for those of you who are i'm sorry it has been two years since I last posted! Life has been rather hectic with a new job on a preserved railway, book writing and P2 work!

 

I dont know where to start this update. I last showed some photos of the frames being cut, so I suppose the best place to start is with the assembly of the frames:

 

 

 

The frames have gone together with some of the stretchers fitted and temporary bars fitted in other locations. The footplate, running boards, bufferbeams etc have also been fabricated.

 

Various castings have been produced, mostly using polystyrene patterns made directly from 3D CAD drawings:

 

 

 

Some of these, like the hornblocks have been trial fitted, or in some cases permanently fitted t the frames:

 

 

All the wheels have been cast and partially machined. The next stage as part of our Mikado Club fundraising program is to get the tyres fitted and all the other associated work so that the engine can be wheeled later this year:

 

 

 

The Gresley Society have also kindly sponsored the front end "face" including the smokebox assembly, seen here being welded together:

 

 

Their sponsorship also covers the complex smokebox door:

 

 

The cab has also been ordered in flatpack:

 

 

And trial assembled (now being finally assembled):

 

 

CAD work is still ongoing:

 

 

And finally the P2 Steam Locomotive Company's new book (written by myself and published by Ian Allan) has been released last week. 

 

 

 

The new book contains new information, unpublished photos and charts the life of the class from conception (and a bit on the P1 engines) right through rebuilding and scrapping plus work on No.2007. If anyone fancies a copy, the book is £22.50 and if bought through the A1/P2 sees 50% of the cast going directly to building the new P2. Drop me a PM for more information (plug over).

 

Hopefully that has brought everyone up to speed. As ever if you would like to get involved, please see the website www.p2steam.com or drop me a message.

 

Enjoy!

 

Andy

 

 

[Rumblestripe]

As a resident of that there Darlington, can I ask if there are any plans for "Open Days" this year? I seem to remember visiting the unit during the construction of 60163.

[bobthesod4479]

Has the Gresley Society actually paid the money? it has been nearly a year since the announcement?