RMweb Premium melmerby Posted April 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2014 Further to my comments above Duke of Rothesay does have a pedigree It was the name on a Reid NBR "H" class 4-4-2 (LNER C11) One of what became C11 class was also named "Cock of The North" so I would argue that Duke of Rothesay has a better claim for a new Build P2 than Prince of Wales! Some were even used on the same route the P2s were designed for. Just because some people associate it with Thompson I don't see why it shouldn't be used as a name. Keith EDIT I would go for "Lord of the Isles" as an alternative as that is a subsiduary title of the Duke of Rothesay although that only appeared on a K4 Maybe if Scotland gets independence it should be called "Lord President" (Salmond) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Maybe if Scotland gets independence it should be called "Lord President" (Salmond) The title of "Lord President" is already taken in Scotland: it's the title of the top judge of the Scottish courts. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardy Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Was really hoping to avoid all of the nameplate conversations. At the end of the day, they are but two components on something much bigger, complex and beautiful. Lots of people did not like the name Tornado, but funnily enough they have all come to take photos of it.... However, at the Roadshows it has been mentioned that the loco will occasionally carry the Duke of Rothesay name when in Scotland, subject to approval from the Royal Household etc. I don't mind the name either way and think they are both suitable, even so I wont be able to read if from the footplate.. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 How about naming it Edward Thompson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 7, 2014 How about naming it Edward Thompson People might start throwing things at it (and the name was carried by an A2 of course). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The name of 2007 is "Prince of Wales". Accept it!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted May 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 7, 2014 Anyone know what mods are being made to that huge fixed wheelbase to enable it to leave curves as curves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 But when it is rebuilt in a few years time as a 4-6-2 the name would be fine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardy Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Phil, Regards modifications regards the wheelbase the whole design of the original P2 and our modified design has been put through VAMPIRE by Delta Rail. This is used in the industry to test new designs for rail interface, ride quality and other items. Cutting a long story short, the original design did have a few problems, mainly caused by the front pony design. It is interesting that with all the research into the original locomotives, we can find no evidence of the locomotives derailing other than in a shed yard, where nearly every other type of locomotive will probably have had an earth fault too, especially in Scottish depots. Contemporary reports vary with some saying how smooth the locomotives rode, whilst others say they were rough. Considering they ran over LMS metals, it is my opinion that if they had major problems i'm sure they would be banned. I have seen letters form the LMS regarding the engines and they seem perfectly happy with them, both at the design stage and during operation. Anyway, the software was then used to test a redesigned front pony wheel using the V2 pattern (derived from the 8Fs built at Doncaster in the war). Had the P2's not been rebuilt it is possible they would have gained this design of pony truck. The result is a ride quality and acceptance equal to Tornado. A few things are being tweaked, but all in all it has come out more than acceptable with evidence from the professionals to back it up. If it had come out otherwise i'm not sure the project would have got this far. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Anyone know what mods are being made to that huge fixed wheelbase to enable it to leave curves as curves? As mentioned at the roadshow and in various publications, the problem is not the fixed wheelbase but the pony truck. The V2's had the same design of truck as the P2 and had the same issues, i.e. the leading set of drivers effectively steering the loco into curves. Now the V2s had their pony truck successfully modified a few years later, however by that point the P2's had lost their leading drivers and gained a bogie. Ergo the redesigned truck should also work with the P2. Also, as I recall the second and third sets of drivers have a reduced flange profile. EDIT: Andy got in there first! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 How about naming it Edward Thompson Even I think that's in poor taste! I've read at length the proposals, the results of the study, the computer modelling data made available on the website and a few other bits of material - this is likely to be Britain's most sorted steam locomotive when it's done. Nothing excites me more at present than witnessing no.2007 in steam for the first time. It is a shame Edward Thompson did not apply the train of thought he applied to the V2s to the P2s - but whereas he was dealing with a very large class of medium sized mixed traffic locomotives in one case, he was dealing with the opposite end of the scale in numeracy and size in the other. He can perhaps be excused for rebuilding the P2s on that basis but that does not make it any less a shame given the potential inherent in the design. It is perhaps telling that it is only with the technology we have available today that the full extent of the inadequacy of the Gresley design pony truck on the P2 has been discovered - the real cause for the problems with the P2s it seems. Had that been sorted, the whole lineage of LNER steam locomotive might have been different. Thompson and Peppercorn Mikados, perhaps…we shall never know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardy Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Evening all, Another update. Today I had the pleasure of visiting Tata Steel at Scunthorpe to watch the frameplates for 2007 being cut out. All very interesting and exciting stuff. Tim and Ben Godfrey, Gresley's grandsons pressed the button to start it all off. Some photos to follow in anyone is interested. James May has also started to make another component in his shed, the steam cock flange for the slacker pipe. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 James May has also started to make another component in his shed, the steam cock flange for the slacker pipe. Andy Sounds like an alternative to using Viagra .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 It was hinted at on Saturday that the loco could carry "Duke of Rothesay" plates when active in Scotland. Let us not forget that another of Charlies titles is "Lord of the Isles", and I think that'd be a much better name still! Have the team asked HRH which of his titles he would consider would look best on the loco? He might even be quite taken by he idea of one of his 'spares' sharing a bit of the limelight. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted May 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2014 Evening all, Another update. Today I had the pleasure of visiting Tata Steel at Scunthorpe to watch the frameplates for 2007 being cut out. All very interesting and exciting stuff. Tim and Ben Godfrey, Gresley's grandsons pressed the button to start it all off. Some photos to follow in anyone is interested. James May has also started to make another component in his shed, the steam cock flange for the slacker pipe. Andy Excellent news and many thanks for the update. I can just imagine James May reading the list of suitable parts for him to make, reaching that one and saying "Got to be that one"!! Tony ps Yes please with the photos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2014 Evening all, Some photos to follow in anyone is interested. Andy Yes, yes! Please Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardy Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 A few photos as promised: Gresley's grandsons pressing the go button. All the plates laid out for cutting. Closeup of the burner head. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted May 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2014 A few photos as promised: IMG_6572.JPG Gresley's grandsons pressing the go button. IMG_6536.JPG All the plates laid out for cutting. IMG_6549.JPG Closeup of the burner head. Andy Did you cut a few sets of 2/4/7mm frames whilst you were at it? Should always be on the lookout for a money making opportunity!! Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 P2SLC, No.1 full scale modellers in the world! I see the pics of the frames being cut and keep thinking its a massive brass fret, ready to be cut out and soldered! Glad I sent off my forms this week, don't want to miss out on this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60800 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 With regards to the length of the P2 design, how would it cope with things like the NR Holgate turntable in York and other tight spots like Grosmont MPD? From viewing experience I know that 70013 barely fits on said turntable. I've sourced information on wheelbase length, but cannot find the overall length over buffer to buffer. I understand that both the bogie, cartazzi and rear section of the frames have been redesigned to counter twisting forces when turning, specifically to reduce wobble at speed when exiting a curve, but it still begs the question of how a P2 would cope with tight runarounds like Pickering for example. My experience of heritage lines only extends to NYMR, KVWR and briefly the NVR. Unless weight is an issue, I wouldn't see a problem with the KVWR or NVR. I can't speak in regard to any other heritage railway, but Is it a simple case of that we will never see a P2 hammering its way up Goathland bank? This isn't intended to be a controversial set of questions, but a query of what is being examined and put in place to allow the highest operational capability and furthest possible public reach of the P2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 ....James May has also started to make another component in his shed, the steam cock flange for the slacker pipe. It just had to be that one. If he gets it wrong, can we expect to hear the immortal word "Cock"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'd suspect that if the P2 ever did come to Grosmont it wouldn't be there long. The line is simply too sharply curved for pacifics, let alone a 2-8-2. You'd end up with some serious frame damage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 With regards to the length of the P2 design, how would it cope with things like the NR Holgate turntable in York and other tight spots like Grosmont MPD? From viewing experience I know that 70013 barely fits on said turntable. I've sourced information on wheelbase length, but cannot find the overall length over buffer to buffer. 73ft 8 3/8in buffer to buffer according to the Isinglass plans Edit: To compare a Brit is listed as being 68ft 9in buffer to buffer, and I believe Tornado is 72ft 11 3/4in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 It's the wheelbase that's important though, surely? Also being able to get it balanced without a wheelset being 'off the table'... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 9, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2014 It's the wheelbase that's important though, surely? Also being able to get it balanced without a wheelset being 'off the table'... You are quite right but please stop calling me Shirley. Sorry but somebody had to.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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