The Official Rapido APT-E Thread

[UP 4000]

Still having issue with the lighting on mine, everything works fine on DC. Rapido says it is a mapping problem and I need to read the decoder manual for that as it beyond their remit of tech help. I have never had to map a decoder before on any of the 40 plus locos I own. Can anyone help with this? 

 

Did you change your decoder for a 4 function, if so, which one?

 

I only use ESU decoders, all Loksound, and lately FX, and only ever use the lokprogrammer, (can't do cv's) it's easier doing it on the computer, and can just to say manage that.

 

Depending on decoder, aux 3-4 may not be active and might have to be turned on, If its a lokpilot there on F5 & 6,

 

Have you tried going through every function button?

[Removed a/c]

Hi 

 

Yes it is a LokPilot Standard 21PIN 4 function  The cab lights work, power car one I get head and tail lights together and nothing on the other end, change direction of travel I get Head lights on PC2 tail lights PC2 as it should be. 

 

 

I am extremely frustrated and disappointed at this point. I have bought 3 decoders now, sent PC1 to Rapido only to be told it is mapping and nothing they can do................APT-E anyone? 

Edited June 16, 2016 by thebritfarmer

[UP 4000]

From the sound of it, it is mapping, Now if you don't have esu's lokprogrammer then I'm stumped on that one. It can be done via the cv's but honestly I don't know how.

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So if the decoder is not mapped correctly using another decoder should fix the issue no? and if no then every single DC APT-E should have this problem? I can't recall anyone else mentioning this issue on this thread though. 

[tgvfan]

Remember This?

 

I think someone's been watching,

 

http://ow.ly/vlKH301klp6

 

Ironically notice the dates.

My wallet has just let out a scream

 

Just under £370 for what would be a 7 car set

[UP 4000]

So if the decoder is not mapped correctly using another decoder should fix the issue no? and if no then every single DC APT-E should have this problem? I can't recall anyone else mentioning this issue on this thread though. 

 

Hmmm,,, Good point, you had the same issue with the other decoder? Mine was fitted with a Loksound, apart from problems on the PCB is fine, can you try the Lokpilot in another loco? If that's fine then it's looking like another trip to Rapido.

 

I'm not being funny here, but is the decoder the right way round? I know with 8 pins if installed incorrectly you don't get the directional lighting to work, and runs wrong way round. Is this the same for a 21pin??, now it shouldn't be because 1 pin should be blanked off, But I'm sure I've had to install a 21pinner upside down for it to work, I'll check on this, but don't try it yet, Generally decoder tight to the board and the black socket on top.

 

My wallet has just let out a scream

 

Just under £370 for what would be a 7 car set

 Makes two of us, already pre-ordered the power cars,

[Removed a/c]

Thanks,

 

I am going to try the decoders I have in other locos. The 21 PINS only fit one way. 

 

 

 

Regards 
Scott 

[apt-e]

Looks fantastic put me done for one when you release it also how is the e train detailing pack coming on

 

E train detail pack photos soon, been putting plenty of effort into POP, but the pack is just about done, post pics when I have test painted the parts. :-)

[UP 4000]

Hi Scott,

 

Try these, Reinstall the blanking plug and run her on DC, directional lights should work fine, but no cab lighting,

 

Reinstall the Lokpilot and run that on DC, It can do it, Same again, directional lights should work, but no cab lighting,

 

If's all o.k with the blanking plug on DC, then e-train should be o.k, If Lokpilots playing up on DC it could be a bad one, if not, could be your dcc system, I'm not saying it's at fault, but the esu decoders are multiprotocol and on some systems you may have to turn off railcomplus which I think is enabled on esu's decoders by default.

 

What system are you running? and do you have any other esu decoders, either loksound or pilots?

[Removed a/c]

Thanks Craig, 

 

I am using a Dynamis (the 1st version without the probox) I am going to do some more trouble shooting tonight trying the decoders in different locos. The decoders I usually use a Bachmann 21pin & 8pin. I have a few of the Hattons ones as well. This is the first ESU decoder I have bought (under the recommendation in the Rapido book !!) This ESU has railcom plus also. I do recall a thread with someone having problems with railcom not working on a Dynamis Ultima system (this is the latest version). THey did not have an APT-E though it was different loco. 

[UP 4000]

Thanks Craig, 

 

I am using a Dynamis (the 1st version without the probox) I am going to do some more trouble shooting tonight trying the decoders in different locos. The decoders I usually use a Bachmann 21pin & 8pin. I have a few of the Hattons ones as well. This is the first ESU decoder I have bought (under the recommendation in the Rapido book !!) This ESU has railcom plus also. I do recall a thread with someone having problems with railcom not working on a Dynamis Ultima system (this is the latest version). THey did not have an APT-E though it was different loco. 

 

Hi Scott,

 

The Dynamis is ESU, But I don't think it has all of it's features, bit like Piko's smart control, It's ESU, but you can't get the mobile control unit 2 in the U.K for love nor money! Railcom is an announcement, once a loco is placed on the track the ECoS recognises it straight away, and is ready to use.

 

Not all systems can support this, and can cause issues, Definitely check the decoders by swapping them around, but personally I've never had an issue with ESU decoders, but I'm running ECoS, which handles DCC, Railcom, and Motorola all at the same time.

 

I try to keep everything the same, makes my life a lot easier, Might not be the cheapest, but worth it by reducing the stress levels,

 

Hopefully it's an issue with Railcom, or worst case an iffy lokpilot,

 

I think I've passed my bad luck onto you, SORRY!,

 

Off topic, got the new PSU today for the ECoS, and she's back up and running, Have so say a big Thank you to Caroline from Southwest Digital for her help and sending out the new PSU so quickly!!!

[Removed a/c]

Thanks 

 

I do like to stick to the same decoders using the Bachmann 21 & 8 pin decoders, never an issue. They are cheap and cheerful and good enough for a dummy like me I basically have a trainset so I am not willing to rush out and spend a fortune on a DCC that I think would be overkill. Although the ECoS does appeal to me it is just so expensive ! Glad to hear yours is back up and running !! 

[Mr.S.corn78]

Still having issue with the lighting on mine, everything works fine on DC. Rapido says it is a mapping problem and I need to read the decoder manual for that as it beyond their remit of tech help. I have never had to map a decoder before on any of the 40 plus locos I own. Can anyone help with this? 

HI Britfarmer,

 

Not sure if this has been mentioned but the lights on the apt-e are all on individual outputs i.e.

head lights PC-1

Tail lights PC-1

Head lights PC-2

Tail lights PC-2

 

Now to have the head lights at PC-1 and tail lights at PC-2 on they have to be activated by the same function button press. ie F0 fwd and the same in reverse.

From reading some of your other posts it sounds like that one of aux outputs that is powering the tail lights in PC-1 is powering up when you press F0 fwd which is doing the headlights in PC-1.

 

The easiest way is do you know anyone with a lokprogrammer? as they will be able to set up the function outputs in a couple of seconds.

 

The other way is to work out using the cv table in the manuel which values needs to be in which cv to have it all working correctly.

 

Its a pity you don't live closer as i would have said post it to me and i would sort it out for you.

 

cheers

Simon

[UP 4000]

Thanks,

 

Great bit of kit, would be better if not stuck in a cupboard all the time!!!

 

Now I've tried putting Legomanbiffo's class 47 sound decoder in E-Train, and it does the same thing, It's part of a shunting setup, on the 47, The Lokpilot has shunting mode on F3, more to slow it down, but I don't know if this affects the lighting setup as a standard feature.

[UP 4000]

Thanks,

 

Great bit of kit, would be better if not stuck in a cupboard all the time!!!

 

Now I've tried putting Legomanbiffo's class 47 sound decoder in E-Train, and it does the same thing, It's part of a shunting setup, on the 47, The Lokpilot has shunting mode on F3, more to slow it down, but I don't know if this affects the lighting setup as a standard feature.

 

Actually I stand corrected, just swapped them back over and its working as should on the 47 !!, so not shunting mode, and what I was thought which function it was, was cab lighting, and that didn't work on E-Train,

 

But put her own decoder back in and everything's fine??? Mysterious???

[Removed a/c]

HI Britfarmer,

 

Not sure if this has been mentioned but the lights on the apt-e are all on individual outputs i.e.

head lights PC-1

Tail lights PC-1

Head lights PC-2

Tail lights PC-2

 

Now to have the head lights at PC-1 and tail lights at PC-2 on they have to be activated by the same function button press. ie F0 fwd and the same in reverse.

From reading some of your other posts it sounds like that one of aux outputs that is powering the tail lights in PC-1 is powering up when you press F0 fwd which is doing the headlights in PC-1.

 

The easiest way is do you know anyone with a lokprogrammer? as they will be able to set up the function outputs in a couple of seconds.

 

The other way is to work out using the cv table in the manuel which values needs to be in which cv to have it all working correctly.

 

Its a pity you don't live closer as i would have said post it to me and i would sort it out for you.

 

cheers

Simon

Thanks Simon for the info and the offer.

 

I think my biggest cause of frustration is that this is a DCC ready model with working lights that just doesn't work properly. I don't see why I need to map the lights as they should work as standard no? There are 145 pages on here and I can't remember seeing a single person mentioning they are having the same problem as me. Which makes me think there is a problem with the unit itself. It works properly in one direction but no the other. I am leaving it for now as my frustration level is quite high and I may end up damaging it. I do have call out to a model store (45 minutes away) to see if they have a lokprogrammer or if they can help. If not I may just sell the damn thing and move on, the hobby is supposed to be fun and this is not.............and has soured me a little against Rapido despite the fact it is a nice looking model.

 

 

Regards 

Scott 

Edited June 17, 2016 by thebritfarmer

[Ely_South]

I don't see why I need to map the lights as they should work as standard no?

 

That's where you're falling down I'm afraid. We get used to many RTR models working out of the box simply because they are built to run non-prototypically (forward = daytime headlights; reverse = rear lights); no doubt partly to save cost, but also perhaps partly to take advantage of some 'default' programming on many off-the-shelf decoders where the white and yellow wires are pre-set to work in exactly that fashion.

 

Rapido have built a prototypical model, and therefore the DCC decoder actually needs a bit of programming. It's not the model's fault, or Rapido's fault. It's just something that's a requirement with DCC if you want to things properly.

 

Simon has summarised the solution above, but programming is not easy to get your head around the first time you do it (it's easier with tools that cost money...). However - I suspect there's a very simple solution (although you'll need to confirm) - Give Legomanbiffo a call. He has the programmer (for ESU chips); he knows exactly what functions need programming, as he'll have done exactly that for the sound-fitted chips. I suspect he'll be the easiest and most reliable way to get you running.

 

It might help if you if you buy a chip from him to make it worth his while. The ones you have will probably work fine in other RTR models...

 

I hope that helps, and restores your confidence in the model :-)

 

Cheers & Good Luck

 

Rob

[Removed a/c]

Thanks for you suggestions Rob, 

 

This unit doesn't have that may options the lights are supposed to run white forward with rear lights and then opposite when reversed or are the rear lights not supposed to be on and if not what is the point of having them?. They do this going one way but not the other. The cab lighting also works fine. There is no mention of a decoder needing to be mapped in the booklet, just add the chip and away you go. 

 

 

Rapido have already repaired this as there was a loose wire, they were not sure what it was but the said that everything now was working fine as they tested it with a 21 PIN decoder. If they didn't have to map it why do I ? 

Edited June 17, 2016 by thebritfarmer

[UP 4000]

Don't give up on her Scott,

 

It's a new model, and still really being tested by us, Bugs will arise, But we all need to say what they are and list them on here so we can help each other.

 

I think your right, taking a break for the moment is the best thing to do, Frustration will only cause problems. Stick a decoder in her, and just run her without the lights for now,

 

If you are having the issue with other decoders then it must be E-Train, you shouldn't need to do any mapping, A lokprogrammer is great, but only works with ESU decoders to get the most out of them, So don't bother buying one unless you have more ESU decoders.

 

Ian may be able to help, but he's the sound guy, and probably can't do anything because  you don't have a lokprogrammer and you shouldn't need to anyway, like you said "plug in and go"

 

Should it not be the case if Rapido recommend a certain decoder, then you should be able to buy one off them.

[Removed a/c]

Thanks Craig, 

 

I am trying to decipher if anyone who bought just a DC version then chipped her with a regular non sound decoder has had the same issues. Incredible that 146 pages of enthusiasm and with all of the APT-Es spoken for (I assume) not one person has had this issue. 

 

My other issue is Rapido said it was fixed, tested and it worked fine for them. Why didn't they have to map their decoder? 

[UP 4000]

Which Lokpilot did you get? there is quite a few of them,

 

I don't happen to have a spare 21pin non sound decoder so can't test that at the moment, Every time I fit one it's always a sound version, Stupid really as got noware for them to run.

 

They wouldn't have mapped theirs as they don't need to, shouldn't have to for directional lighting,

[Removed a/c]

This is the one I have 

 

53614

LokPilot Standard DCC, 21MTC interface, 4 amplified outputs + 2 logic outputs

 

I have also tried the Bachmann 21pin and a Gaugemaster 8pin in a 21pin adapter (the Rapido booklet says this is also acceptable). 

[UP 4000]

Had a quick scan of the manual (there's a first), in fairness Rapido do recommend the Lokpilot V.4, There is differences over the V.4 and standard, this could be the problem.

 

All sound decoders be it select which is in the sound version is V.4 and Ian's (legomanbiffo) is loksound which is also V.4

 

But they still say your chosen decoder,

 

I wouldn't worry about nobody else having the same issues as you, Myself had a dodgy diode on the PCB, few posts ago, and nobody's mentioned anything similar, same as Colin, his universal joints on the drive shaft weren't connected properly, no-one else has said the same, Looks like every E-Train is unique.

Edited June 17, 2016 by UP 4000

[Mr_Tilt]

 Looks like every E-Train is unique.

 

Hehehe, so VERY true! 

[Mr.S.corn78]

Don't give up on her Scott,

 

It's a new model, and still really being tested by us, Bugs will arise, But we all need to say what they are and list them on here so we can help each other.

 

I think your right, taking a break for the moment is the best thing to do, Frustration will only cause problems. Stick a decoder in her, and just run her without the lights for now,

 

If you are having the issue with other decoders then it must be E-Train, you shouldn't need to do any mapping, A lokprogrammer is great, but only works with ESU decoders to get the most out of them, So don't bother buying one unless you have more ESU decoders.

 

Ian may be able to help, but he's the sound guy, and probably can't do anything because  you don't have a lokprogrammer and you shouldn't need to anyway, like you said "plug in and go"

 

Should it not be the case if Rapido recommend a certain decoder, then you should be able to buy one off them.

HI all,

 

Craig I haven't singled you out other than to try to explain a couple of points in your reply.

 

The way the lights are set up means that the tail lights are independent to the head lights and have their own outputs on the main PCB. So if you haven't got a decoder that has had the headlights and the correct aux outputs linked you won't get the the lights on the Aux output to work when you press the F0 key.

 

For example on an 8 pin decoder you would have the white wire and the green wire set to activate when you press and then to get the other set of lights to work it would be yellow and purple wires that have to be linked.

 

You could if you wish change the settings on a decoder so that you have to press individual Function keys to have all the main running lights turn on.

 

The lights would also show a problem if you use a normal 21 pin blanking plug from say Bachmann as the various outputs haven't been linked on most of them so it would show the headlights to work but not the tail lights.

 

As Rob has mentioned in the UK RTR market its normal to have the head lights at one end linked via the circuit to the tail lights at the other so the both light up. Its only the past few years that they have put a switch on the loco to enable the tail lights to be switched off if you wish to have the prototypicaly operated whilst pulling stock. Now this may be fine when the power only has to travel a few cm but from one end of the apt-e to the other is around the 4ft mark so it may need a bit more power to get them to work hence why they are on diffrent outputs or it may simply be the case that this is the way they do it in the Canadian market.

 

The reason for suggesting a lokprogrammer to do the programming is and i know from experience from fitting a lot of decoders that the other possible programmer (other may be available that i don't know of) and one that i use called a sprog can't work ESU decoders and can do funny things to ESU decoders whilst programming one on it.

 

Now i understand that your not going to buy over £100 worth of gear to solve one problem and I use mine a lot with work so its been worth the investment for me.

 

If I had a Lokpilot decoder I would pop it on my programmer and get the CV settings off it so you you could change then/check them on your decoder but unfortunately i only have sound ones and the CVs may be different on the sound ones compered to the normal decoders.

I will try to get hold of a lokpilot decoder over the course of next week and see what i can find out but this may not be till the week after as I'm off to Scotland for a few days with work.

 

On the subject of selling decoders they may be limited to what they can sell by the terms and conditions set in place by ESU.

 

Scott, I know things can be frustrating but I'm sure we can solve the problem, it may just take a couple of days to get the settings for you and as Craig has pointed out that unless people post up the problems that they are having other wont know. for example we now know via Craig that if you run an 8 coaches plus another set it will blow the PSU on an ECoS.

 

Cheers

Simon

Edited June 18, 2016 by Mr.S.corn78