G-BOAF Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Is the railroad chassis block the same as before; i.e. brass bearings and identical general arrangemetns aside from motor and lack of detail on base plate? I ask as some of my GG chassis blocks appears slightly misformed and railroad models would be good purchases for spares. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Is the railroad chassis block the same as before; i.e. brass bearings and identical general arrangemetns aside from motor and lack of detail on base plate? I ask as some of my GG chassis blocks appears slightly misformed and railroad models would be good purchases for spares. It's almost identical, but the centre driving wheel set appears to be slightly different in the brass bearing setup to the super detail models. What this means is, you can drop in the new driving wheels onto an older chassis, and older wheel sets onto the new chassis, but only the outer driving wheels. Which is something of a strange design change given the Railroad Scotsman - the new one is closer to the super detail models in a number of ways including allowing any of the previous loco drive driving wheels to be dropped in. I had actually fitted an A4 body shell to the Railroad chassis before now, but the problem was obvious with the new type of valve gear: However it would have been a simple upgrade to the valve gear to get round that one, the A4 cylinder block fits perfectly as did everything else. It is a shame in some respects that Hornby didn't just upgrade their Railroad A4 to this chassis as it runs very nicely (even with pickups on only the six driving wheels). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) Thanks. So your suggestion would be use a railroad scotsman to provide a chassis block for an A4? What is the difference in the middle drivers on the A4 in terms of the bearing? Edited August 10, 2014 by G-BOAF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Avoid the new valve gear too unless you want a huge Tender drive type motion bracket . Why did they do that ?? !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Thanks. So your suggestion would be use a railroad scotsman to provide a chassis block for an A4? What is the difference in the middle drivers on the A4 in terms of the bearing? I'm going to check for you today once I've done all the other odd jobs, but from memory I think the bearing is a different shape (or they've removed one - can't remember which way round it is). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) Cheers Mr Martin. The centre driving set should (historically) only have one (large) bearing to one side of the gear train. The other two driving wheelsets have two small bearings on each side. If you can muster pictures...? Edited August 10, 2014 by G-BOAF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Cheers Mr Martin. The centre driving set should (historically) only have one (large) bearing to one side of the gear train. The other two driving wheelsets have two small bearings on each side. If you can muster pictures...? I will certainly try this evening - will charge the camera up now. I think the centre driving wheel set omits the bearing but I will check. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Hornby's lack of consistency in applying brass bearings to models never fails to amaze me. So, on the left, a set of A3/A4 driving wheel sets suitable for the super detail models (these are apple green and spare from an A3 set but are the same bar colour as those on the A4 models) and on the right, a set of the Railroad drivers which are the same in the new Railroad Scotsman and the Railroad A4s. Note the EXTRA brass bearing…! Which means older sets will go in, but newer centre driving wheel sets can't be put into old chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Sorry, let me clarify - old sets will go into old and new chassis, the latest centre driving wheel sets can only go into the latest Railroad models. Crazy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) thanks so much for that Simon. This is an improvement by Hornby. Let me explain. the old arrangement left one side of the centre driver unsupported if there was any slight flaw in the casting, or fit of the bearing. It effectively meant that any imperfection in bearing fitting and the loco was, to a small degree, running on mazak. As an example, one of my Great Goodbye locos is running on 5 rather than 6 driving wheels. What they have done is now properly supported that other side. Aside from the 'live' chassis block on the early A4s and others, the single large bearing on the centre drivers was the only flaw on a generally well engineered chassis. Nice to see parts being added rather than taken off. This does make me wonder why the latest full detail A4s don't have this change, and if, as noted in the GG thread, a full batch of parts were made for c6k models before further changes to tooling were carried out. Well played by Hornby. I hope this is the only change and there is othewise full compatability...? Presumably the original 5 pole motor can be swapped in to the RR chassis? Edited August 10, 2014 by G-BOAF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I agree, this is an upgrade, but it does make mixing and matching wheels a trifle more difficult. That said, the thing which makes mixing and matching even more difficult is the change in the size of thread of the coupling rod pins and that on the centre driving wheel crankpin. You can't swap them over between the Railroad Pacifics, and they are also not compatible with the older super detail ones. You therefore need to make sure the coupling rods, valve gear and driving wheels are all from the same batch or design period before swapping them onto a chassis block. It's a right headache in some respects! The three pole motor in the Railroad A4 models is not the same as the Scalextric-a-like in the Railroad Scotsman (which, coupled with a flywheel, is a rather effective and smooth operator) and is dismal in my opinion. Stutters at all speeds. Five pole motors will be fitted in due course to both my Mallard and Silver Fox models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 would be easier to 'push out' the crank pins from other wheels and retrofit to railroad wheels. Assuming such pins will push out... Or prise off wheels, and fit additional bearing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted August 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2014 The new one is a railroad model with a new chassis based on previous spec models but omitting the lubricator drive and using an inferior three pole motor (it appears that way on mine anyway - it's definitely not the higher spec 5 pole motor). On both this and the recent re-release of the 60022 model, I've found the chassis lacking in smoothness and reliability. Replacement motors will be fitted as soon as possible on my samples. Outwardly, aside from being the railroad model, my silver fox is very nicely liveried. Very nice indeed. Bought at Invicta model rail on a whim and I don't regret it. And now here IS a nice surprise.I have just received my Silver Fox.A "looker" definitely...but the real surprise is its performance.Yes it's a 3 pole motor...but on my DC analogue Gaugemaster,it performs as well as any of its 5 pole stablemates,straight out of the packaging,smoothly,effortlessly,quietly hauling 8 Hornby Gresley teaks.For my money,a considerable bargain and I'm glad I took a chance.Now to properly run it in. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Latest in my stud , converted Kingfisher to post war Merlin. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chev32 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 When will Hornby release some apple green versions ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffi_C Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) When will Hornby release some apple green versions ? Unlikely to happen. They've learnt from past experience that there simply isn't sufficient demand. I'm planning to refinish some blue ones. The current Silver Jubilee set, with its non-streamilned corridor tender, is absolutely perfect for those wanting to acquire cheap models for respraying as 4482 - 4487. Edited August 12, 2014 by Steffi_C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Just curious. Some people hate them, but a lot of people love them. None. And it's going to stay that way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted November 7, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) would be easier to 'push out' the crank pins from other wheels and retrofit to railroad wheels. Assuming such pins will push out... Or prise off wheels, and fit additional bearing... Yes I think transferring the pins is easier than moving the wheels. I put the lined green wheels into a railroad D49 chassis. I think this was Micklner's idea I saw posted here but sorry if I am mis-remembering and not giving appropriate credit to someone else. I used the lined wheels from Tornado rather than the Hornby A1/3s as that set has the extra bearing on the driven axle. I had to switch over the long crank pins in the wheels, but it was much easier than I thought and allowed me to leave the wheels, drive gear and 2 bearings all on the on the axle without disturbing them, without worrying about disturbing the quartering or the trueness of the wheels . Simon, I think that means if you want lined green wheels for one of the railroad chassis blocks you could use the lined Tornado wheels and take advantage of the extra bearing on the drive axle. Edited November 7, 2014 by Dominion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Yes I think transferring the pins is easier than moving the wheels. I put the lined green wheels into a railroad D49 chassis. I think this was Micklner's idea I saw posted here but sorry if I am mis-remembering and not giving appropriate credit to someone else. I used the lined wheels from Tornado rather than the Hornby A1/3s as that set has the extra bearing on the driven axle. I had to switch over the long crank pins in the wheels, but it was much easier than I thought and allowed me to leave the wheels, drive gear and 2 bearings all on the on the axle without disturbing them, without worrying about disturbing the quartering or the trueness of the wheels . Simon, I think that means if you want lined green wheels for one of the railroad chassis blocks you could use the lined Tornado wheels and take advantage of the extra bearing on the drive axle. Yes I did a wheel swop on the D49 without any problem. You need to add weight as you lose the Traction rubber bands fitted to the Railroad wheels. No idea if the rims can be removed ( I doubt it). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor7598 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 HI Everyone, As all of you own Hornby Gresley pacifics ,what is the general opinion regarding the front bogie arrangement. I have two A3's and one A4,they are without doubt some of Hornby's finest looking loco's but I have found that the sloppy sliding action of the very lightweight bogie to be a constant source of derailments. Where is the central sprung pivot found on Hornby's Bulleids and Royal Scot ,these stay on the track perfectly as do all my Bachmann loco's . To me there is serious design flaw here All three loco's are top of the range ie. not Railroad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 HI Everyone, As all of you own Hornby Gresley pacifics ,what is the general opinion regarding the front bogie arrangement. I have two A3's and one A4,they are without doubt some of Hornby's finest looking loco's but I have found that the sloppy sliding action of the very lightweight bogie to be a constant source of derailments. Where is the central sprung pivot found on Hornby's Bulleids and Royal Scot ,these stay on the track perfectly as do all my Bachmann loco's . To me there is serious design flaw here All three loco's are top of the range ie. not Railroad. Check the back to back on the wheels, rarely have any problems with any of mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamOrmorod Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Does anybody know what the minimum radius a valanced Hornby A4 will go around with no risk to the valances or draincocks? My Mallard's wheels have scraped away a little of the valances at the bottom due to the setrack that was my childhood layout, and I don't want this to happen to any I get in the future when I build my temporary layout (literally just two loops of track and sidings, I just need somewhere to run my trains!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 2nd radius with out drain cocks - with at least 30" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamOrmorod Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I can just about fit 30''-obviously still not ideal but it's better than setrack. I assume that's large enough radius for the valances to avoid damage too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 If I understand your question correctly, with valances in place it should easily cope with 2nd radius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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