RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted August 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 15, 2014 Trouble is its gone weird between screws. It's down to crap ply...must be. The previous layout did not suffer like this. I'll get different material while I've still got the 4x4. At least your humour chip is still working! See if you can get some flooring ply from a local flooring type shop. I've got large off cuts from my floor fitter; normally just chick it (waste). That stuff is hard and built to take wet glues etc. Better still might be marine ply? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Larry, what thickness Ply are you using? my mate uses 9mm and I was going to use 6mm but your worrying me now, should I re plan, Ho dear more expense. Bodge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Cheers, Have a good day. Bodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgtheow Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Hi Larry, I've used water resistant birch ply, but rather than using traditional soft wood supports the baseboards are built as a monocoque with only 4 mm ply baseboard tops, bottoms & uprights a bit like Barry Norman does & described by a Michael Watts in the September 2012 Railway Modeller. You could think of it as similar to a Mosquito fighter-bomber.The result is very strong, light & it hasn't warped yet despite being stored in quite damp conditions for some months when we moved houses. William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Just to mention that I have had no problems whatsoever with MDF but others are right to say it DOES need fully sealing - even if you don't live in a shed - once that is done it is extremely stable. Also to mention that it is available in water resistant grade (green in colour) which is excellent stuff and though more expensive than ordinary MDF, is still about 1/3 the price of decent ply.. BUT don't let anyone kid you that even furniture grade birch ply is stable without sealing IT IS NOT!! (sorry for shouting!) This is a piece of 6mm furniture grade, 100% knot free, waterproof resin Birch Ply - as good as you can get. I get it as offcuts but if you had to pay for it, you would need to put your wife on the streets or sell a kidney. It is a 100mm wide offcut from a 4' by 3' sheet and has been left in the room where I keep my layout - which is dry, centrally heated.... and it is ALL shapes in ALL directions!! Ply is NOT intrinsically stable - like all sheet materials including MDF, it is as good as its bracing. That is not to say it does not have other advantages - it is nicer to work, has a higher impact resistance (drop a sheet of MDF on its corner and it will break up like cardboard!) it smells a lot nicer and the dust from cutting it will kill you a lot more slowly! But intrinsically stable? Does not warp? Er. no - that is a modeller's myth.. I made my baseboards (4' x 22" in old money) from 6mm MDF, braced with 100mm strips no more than 8" apart, of the same stuff assembled egg-box fashion - all stuck with polyurethane glue (don't get PVA anywhere near bare MDF!). Fully sealed with MDF sealer then over sprayed with gray primer. You can see that the bracing does not follow the edges of the baseboard - there is about 2" of the surface sheets all the way round - this allows halving joints at all the intersections and the use of "fishplates" to align adjacent sections. I think this is what others above have suggested. (I ought to come clean and say that all three baseboards were completed in a single morning using about 20 quid's worth of material - excluding glue drying and sealing and painting) They have not moved a thou in 5 years - and, unlike the last layout's (1/2" marine grade, mahogany faced, hardwood cored ply. braced with 16mm x 100mm Keruing framing), can be lifted and carried about without needing the help of a Rugby Union team... My personal contribution therefore would be that success in baseboard construction is not about the materials alone - it is about design and construction quality. MDF is like everything else - use it properly (read the instructions) it will work fine, but I have heard some modellers berating MDF when the real reason for failure has been the way they have used it. Hope that helps - and sorry again for shouting but, sometimes it is the only way of shooting (shouting?) down Myths! EDIT:- ps - I would also add: don't buy anything that ever grew on trees at B&Q / Wickes / etc - find a timber merchant and talk to the chap, and tell him what you want it for. there is an amazing range of qualities available ate an amazing range of prices! Best wishes, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulr1949 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Water hasnt got into the exterior quality plywood unless it was damp when purchased. We've had one hell of a hot summer hereabouts plus the shed is handbuilt and completely waterproof. Previous layout have not suffered in this way either. Never had any trouble with ply from my supplier in Colwyn but he closed down. I will have to go into Rhyl for plywood next time. Thanks for the tip on MDF. Larry, I had a similar problem with a batch of ply I bought for my O-gauge layout. It warped similarly to HAB's phot. It was bought -very expensively - from supposedly the best local timber merchant and cut by them. I was able to force some of the strips straight for diaganol cross-braces but had to scrap much of the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danemouth Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Larry, Why not ask Peter Midwinter (Trains12 of this parish) where he gets his ply from? IIRC he's fairly close to you. He built my boards several years ago and there is no sign of warping despite being in a garage. Regards, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Sorry to take the thread off topic, but why is this? Thanks, don't get PVA anywhere near bare MDF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Sorry to take the thread off topic, but why is this? Thanks, I'll second that question. My ballast is glued down with dilute PVA on cork and MDF. John P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 think im gonna be following this one with interest as this exact location is where my formative interest in all things railway was born sat on the wall by the crossing at moorgate across from the location of the junction or further down leaning on the fence just above the quarry sidings nice one Larry on a side note Larry did you know Trevor Simpson as he used to chat about his trainspotting days around saddleworth during his cricket coaching days at uppermill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I will have to go into Rhyl for plywood next time. Thanks for the tip on MDF. Good old Roger W. Jonse's in Rhyl is now part of the Jewson group, and since the take over, the quality of the timber has dropped. They will supply decent quality stuff, but you have to be adamant that you'll only accept decent stuff, or they'll try and palm you off with the crap!!!! Jinty ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aac Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Good old Roger W. Jonse's in Rhyl is now part of the Jewson group, and since the take over, the quality of the timber has dropped. They will supply decent quality stuff, but you have to be adamant that you'll only accept decent stuff, or they'll try and palm you off with the crap!!!! Jinty ;-) For baseboard tops I use 9mm exterior quality ply from Wickes because they store it laid horizontally. I was in Homebase yesterday and you can see sheet after sheet of any of the sheeted wood products standing on end, adopting warps in front of you. A friend's layout had a warping problem and it turned out he had bought thick, shuttering ply, the sort of stuff builders use to build a frame into which concrete is poured to set. There is no longevity expected of that type of ply, and sure enough, he paid the price in derailments. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 think im gonna be following this one with interest as this exact location is where my formative interest in all things railway was born sat on the wall by the crossing at moorgate across from the location of the junction or further down leaning on the fence just above the quarry sidings nice one Larry on a side note Larry did you know Trevor Simpson as he used to chat about his trainspotting days around saddleworth during his cricket coaching days at uppermill You and me both, I guess! When I first went (in about 1969) the base of the signal cabin was still there, and, I think, a couple of the signal posts. I went up with Richard Hankinson a few years back to watch Scots guardsman go past, in the pouring rain(!) and you'd never think there was ever anything there, unless you knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 The photography spot at Ladcastle Quarry on my last visit in April 2005 (I was building Diggle at the time). Delph Junction was behind the last coach and the branch track used to be in the foreground where the troughing lies. Beyond the junction points lay Moorgate Halt followed by a long sweeping curve to Greenfield Station. One week in 1963 I saw a regular working involving Rebuilt Jubilee 'Comet' and a colourful Sausage van...... WEB Delph Junction A.jpg Viewed in the opposite direction, the branch curved off to the left towards Delph while mainline trains were carried over the deep valley by Saddleworth Viaduct. On my model, trains will be re entering the shed at this point. I remember a time bow't bushes and trees...... WEB Delph Junction B.jpg now they bring back memories larry think i have a pick of lord nelson from a similar angle as the first one and some of Deltics etc on pennines the same gonna have to go digging in the photobox me think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 You're making my knees all wobbly, Larry! The second-last photo; Saddleworth in summer is a gorgeous place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 love that last pic larry so mutch changed for the worse now imo can just about remember some of these buildings especially kenworthys mill the owners grand daughter was in my lass at uppermill juniors ! most of the woolen mills were still working in my early days all gone now progress eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hi Larry some nice pics there, it amazes me how you know the coaches from that angle, but then that's part of you job I suppose. Great stuff. Bodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted August 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2014 Pure gold Larry, pure gold. Thanks for sharing.Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Absolutely wonderful pictures. Thank you for sharing. I'm with Andy in total amazement that you can recognise all those coach variants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Coaches have always been my hobby on an equal footing with steam locomotives. Having good friends such as David Jenkinson, Adrian Rowland and John Fozard enabled me to have most of my requirements etched, although funnily enough I find I do not need every diagram for the layout. I suppose it is all about striking a balance to suit the period being modelled and the willpower to resist attractive but inappropriate coaches............And locomotives! What?...A Johnson 1F 0-6-0T on the Delph branch? Too right....my willpower evaporated on that one! Just the ONE Sir? Bodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted August 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2014 ............................. the willpower to resist attractive but inappropriate coaches............And locomotives! What?...A Johnson 1F 0-6-0T on the Delph branch? Too right....my willpower evaporated on that one! I believe they were known to lurk around on the east side of the hills........short term loan to cover for something in the works perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Just noticed that staring me in the face in the garage are the old plywood boards that used to be the shelf for the outdoor tracks. Dead straight too whereas an offcut from the last purchase is warped and bent. Blimey, I had better build something quickstyle otherwise I will get a reputation for starting a layout thread and then rambling................ Join the Ramblers Larry, I'm a Master at it, hhahaha. Bodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I believe they were known to lurk around on the east side of the hills........short term loan to cover for something in the works perhaps? 41690 and 41702 were at Belle Vue (26G) in the early 1950s and 41702 and 41814 were there when it closed on the16 April 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted August 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2014 Blimey, I had better build something quickstyle otherwise I will get a reputation for starting a layout thread and then rambling................ Crikey, if you decide to put your skates on, in building Delph Junction, then we daren't blink or we might miss something like the build, operation and dismantling of it!! Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Any update? I enjoyed your previous layout thread so much and am experiencing significant withdrawal symptoms.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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