Kernow Model Rail Centre to produce GWR 1361 0-6-0 Saddle Tank

[KGV]

I see some nice new painted samples of these on there Facebook page today not sure how to link them to this. But they look really good

 

Regards Neil

Also on the Kenrow website.  2 pics for each of the models.

Edited December 12, 2016 by KGV

[Clearwater]

Looks like the handrail issue resolved?

(Generally looks pretty nifty as well!)

Edited December 12, 2016 by Clearwater

[BenL]

It's looking great and the shade of GWR green is pleasing to my eye at least, but the red and black shading on the postwar GWR branding looks a tad indistinct, making the branding look too yellow. And I'm not sure about the reversing rod being red on the postwar GWR example. But if these are errors, hopefully they can be corrected as these appear to be samples at this stage.

[Miss Prism]

Very nice LNER J15 chimney!

Edited December 23, 2016 by Miss Prism

[Graham_Muz]

It's looking great and the shade of GWR green is pleasing to my eye at least, but the red and black shading on the postwar GWR branding looks a tad indistinct, making the branding look too yellow. And I'm not sure about the reversing rod being red on the postwar GWR example. But if these are errors, hopefully they can be corrected as these appear to be samples at this stage.

With the photos having been taken under studio style lighting the yellow stands outs more in the image than it will do to the naked eye looking at the model itself. The same occurs with the grey lining when BR mixed traffic lining in black are phitgraphed.

[ndg910]

Why is the smoke box door surround on 1363 white or silver? Please tell me that is an error that needs correcting ......

[Miss Prism]

Why is the smoke box door surround on 1363 white or silver? Please tell me that is an error that needs correcting ......

 

See post #183

[Clearwater]

It's possible it's also a trick of the light with the aluminium reflecting more than the surrounding colours. There was a debate on the Bachmann coal tank thread post Warley where many people commented on the vividness of the aluminium surround on the tanks of that model. On other photos, it looked less pronounced. Perhaps the same effect here?

 

David

[Ozexpatriate]

It's possible it's also a trick of the light with the aluminium reflecting more than the surrounding colours. There was a debate on the Bachmann coal tank thread post Warley where many people commented on the vividness of the aluminium surround on the tanks of that model. On other photos, it looked less pronounced. Perhaps the same effect here?

And if I recall correctly, the horizontal cab edges on the Kernow/DJM O2?

[JSpencer]

See post #183

 

Why is the smoke box door surround on 1363 white or silver? Please tell me that is an error that needs correcting ......

 

 

See post #183

 

IMHO, I feel that the model still needs correcting. The real loco shown in post 183 is polished steel, while the model is painted in Aluminum, a much lighter and brighter coloured metal.

 

For various reasons,  Aluminum is generally not mixed with steel within the construction of most objects UNLESS something is done to avoid the electrolysis effect that compounding these two metals cause.

 

(note: if steel is too dark for a model, then try gunmetal instead, but never silver or aluminum).

Edited December 13, 2016 by JSpencer

[Opelsi]

Quick question please:

 

   Did these ever appear in "Great Western" green livery?

 

Thanks!

[Miss Prism]

Quick question please:

 

   Did these ever appear in "Great Western" green livery?

 

Thanks!

 

There doesn't appear to be any evidence for 'Great Western'.

 

And if any did carry it, it would have been with the shorter chimney.

 

See post #69 et seq.

 

Edit: sorry, 1364 was in 'Great Western' at Newton. Picture undated as yet.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Miss Prism

[The Stationmaster]

Quick question please:

 

   Did these ever appear in "Great Western" green livery?

 

Thanks!

 

Most of the time, and in many pics (including pre-war), they were so filthy you couldn't tell what livery they were in!

[GWR8700]

After seeing both models, what do you guys reckon looks the better option?

Edited December 14, 2016 by GWR8700

[Clearwater]

I have a 1363 on order from Kernow not least as it will benefit the restoration of the prototype at GWS.

 

David

[The Stationmaster]

After seeing both models, what do you guys reckon looks the better option?

 

The Kernow ones are correct for details - unlike the Heljan ones which judging from the photos in their ads are all the same, which is a shame with a class which had so may detail differences between engines.  

 

Thus the Kernow 1363 has the saddle tank handrails at the correct height (higher than all the other engines) which can certainly be traced back to early post-war condition and probably pre-war; Kernow's 1362 has the tool box on the correct side (different from all the others and definitely in that state from pre-war to withdrawl); the Kernow ones come with the correct chimney height for the livery in which the loco is painted; the position of tank vents and orientation of the water filler hinge is correct for the engine represented (they varied on some engines).  The Kernow ones also have two different bunker backs according to which engine they are representing and the buffers come in the two relevant styles.

 

Judging by a photo I have seen the vacuum pump on the Kernow one looks more like the real thing and the injector mouldings don't have the flash which has appeared on one photo of a Heljan model (which could well be an EP and therefore not representative).  All of the Kernow liveries, including works grey, are correct against original photos of the prototype (including the one lettered 'G W R') although there was an error on one of the livery samples where the right hand side (second) BR symbol was in the wrong place and is too far forward - all the BR liveried locos which carried either the first or second symbol had it positioned directly vertically in line with the footstep on the saddle tank on both sides.  (Judging by photos published thus far - but again possibly of early samples - the lining on the Heljan works grey 1361 is not complete).

 

I don't know the situation on the Heljan one but the Kernow cab backsheet has the semi circular area for the handbrake handle extending back into the bunker.

 

Note however that the Kernow samples seen so far do not yet have full rivet detail and I understand that is still to be added before the final EPs are seen.

Edited December 14, 2016 by The Stationmaster

[81C]

 

 

(note: if steel is too dark for a model, then try gunmetal instead, but never silver or aluminum).

Try Humbrol polished steel ref ac 5025 paint it on let it dry then buff up with a piece of tissue paper.

[Sidecar Racer]

The Kernow ones are correct for details - unlike the Heljan ones which judging from the photos in their ads are all the same, which is a shame with a class which had so may detail differences between engines.  

 

Thus the Kernow 1363 has the saddle tank handrails at the correct height (higher than all the other engines) which can certainly be traced back to early post-war condition and probably pre-war; Kernow's 1362 has the tool box on the correct side (different from all the others and definitely in that state from pre-war to withdrawl); the Kernow ones come with the correct chimney height for the livery in which the loco is painted; the position of tank vents and orientation of the water filler hinge is correct for the engine represented (they varied on some engines).  The Kernow ones also have two different bunker backs according to which engine they are representing and the buffers come in the two relevant styles.

 

Judging by a photo I have seen the vacuum pump on the Kernow one looks more like the real thing and the injector mouldings don't have the flash which has appeared on one photo of a Heljan model (which could well be an EP and therefore not representative).  All of the Kernow liveries, including works grey, are correct against original photos of the prototype (including the one lettered 'G W R') although there was an error on one of the livery samples where the right hand side (second) BR symbol was in the wrong place and is too far forward - all the BR liveried locos which carried either the first or second symbol had it positioned directly vertically in line with the footstep on the saddle tank on both sides.  (Judging by photos published thus far - but again possibly of early samples - the lining on the Heljan works grey 1361 is not complete).

 

I don't know the situation on the Heljan one but the Kernow cab backsheet has the semi circular area for the handbrake handle extending back into the bunker.

 

Note however that the Kernow samples seen so far do not yet have full rivet detail and I understand that is still to be added before the final EPs are seen.

 

 And still something will be wrong for some people . 

[Miss Prism]

The vertical position of the handrail on the smokebox of 1363 is incorrect. (1363's handrails, on smokebox and tank side, were always atypical of the class.)

 

Because only a rear view of 1364 has been given, it is impossible to judge the smokebox handrail position for non-1363 offerings. For the rest of the class, the axis of the smokebox handrail aligns (as near as dammit) with the top hinge of the smokebox:

 

 

See also, for example:

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/GWR-and-BRW/GWR-other-tank-engines/i-CjrMczC

 

 

[81C]

 And still something will be wrong for some people . 

What was that you said Mike.

[The Stationmaster]

 

The vertical position of the handrail on the smokebox of 1363 is incorrect. (1363's handrails, on smokebox and tank side, were always atypical of the class.)

 

Because only a rear view of 1364 has been given, it is impossible to judge the smokebox handrail position for non-1363 offerings. For the rest of the class, the axis of the smokebox handrail aligns (as near as dammit) with the top hinge of the smokebox:

 

1365-handrail.png

 

See also, for example:

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/GWR-and-BRW/GWR-other-tank-engines/i-CjrMczC

 

 

Have a look at a few pics Miss P - the handrail on the smokebox side on 1361 is one the same horizontal alignment as other members of the class, only the saddle tank handrail is out of horizontal alignment.   Basically the smokebox handrail is in line with the top handrail knob of the handrails on the cab sidesheet.  On all other class member except 1363 the saddle tank handrail is in horizontal  alignment with those two, as shown in the Mike Morant pic that you linked and that matches the original drawing. 

[Miss Prism]

Have a look at a few pics Miss P - the handrail on the smokebox side on 1361 is one the same horizontal alignment as other members of the class, only the saddle tank handrail is out of horizontal alignment.   Basically the smokebox handrail is in line with the top handrail knob of the handrails on the cab sidesheet.  On all other class member except 1363 the saddle tank handrail is in horizontal  alignment with those two, as shown in the Mike Morant pic that you linked and that matches the original drawing. 

 

Correct, Mike.

 

All I am saying is that this, for 1363, is wrong:

 

 

Is there a front view of Kernow's 1364 yet?

[The Stationmaster]

Correct, Mike.

 

All I am saying is that this, for 1363, is wrong:

 

kernow-1363-smokebox.png

 

Is there a front view of Kernow's 1364 yet?

 

I've seen a front three quarter from an elevated angle and the handrail looks to be in line with the hinge.  But overall don't forget these are early EP samples we are seeing with some tooling work still outstanding - the difference is that in the case of these Kernow has had the livery samples put on early EPs instead of leaving them later (presumably so that any decoration errors can be picked up early?).

[Miss Prism]

But overall don't forget these are early EP samples we are seeing with some tooling work still outstanding - the difference is that in the case of these Kernow has had the livery samples put on early EPs instead of leaving them later (presumably so that any decoration errors can be picked up early?).

 

In my view, titivating us with incorrect samples is a waste of everyone's time and money, and should come after the mechanicals are  correct.

 

In these EPs, 1363 is wrong mechanically, and 1364 is wrong cosmetically.

 

I am now at a loss as to understanding what Kernow are attempting to portray.

[The Stationmaster]

In my view, titivating us with incorrect samples is a waste of everyone's time and money, and should come after the mechanicals are  correct.

 

In these EPs, 1363 is wrong mechanically, and 1364 is wrong cosmetically.

 

I am now at a loss as to understanding what Kernow are attempting to portray.

 

You've lost me now - what's wrong with 1363 mechanically?