Deneside - BR North Eastern Region

[Northroader]

Whew! when you said change of plan, I was worried, but what you're looking at is a great idea. It looks really promising.

[emt_911]

I'm looking forward to seeing the improvements.

[Andrew P]

Superb Brian and so much more operation, I do love the mock ups and the L/C by the Over Bridge will be scenically lovely.

 

Go for it mate.

[Toftwood]

I agree, the addition of a colliery really sets the layout in the North East, maybe on the back scene behind the Colliery you could have a bleak coastal view wrapping around the left hand end, shades of the coast between South Shields and Sunderland.....just a thought?

[tom shaw]

Love a colliery Brian, I also have those two "modelling aspects" books but they're a bit light on north-eastern pits.

 

These two books feature 6 pits each and are a very interesting read giving a history of each with some good photos, both above and below ground. That's Easington on the front of vol 2 and it has a moving account of the 1951 disaster. Vol 1 features Wearmouth which brings back memories (mostly good).

 

 

Do you have a particular colliery in mind or will it be a generic one.

 

The retirement layout I am planning will feature a colliery and BR/NCB transfer yard (only 8 years and 4 months to go).

 

Regards,

 

Tom

[danstercivicman]

Right then, more about the change of plan.  As a reminder, this is the current state of play.

 

Revised goods yard.jpg

 

The main station, loco depot, U bend, double track main line and viaduct, fiddleyard and single track viaduct (but no track) are all complete but no start has yet been made on the small "branch off a branch" terminus.

 

In the early stages of developing this layout I had hopes of incorporating a colliery but, being obsessed with incorporating run round facilities, I couldn't squeeze one in unless operating very short coal trains.  However, experience operating the main terminus has shown that I only rarely use the run round facilities there so I had a bit of a light bulb moment and decided I only needed a long reception siding and two shorter sidings (splitting the train) for the screens if using an NCB shunter to do all this shunting.  So I had another session on AnyRail and came up with this.

 

Colliery plan.png

 

The long reception siding will take anything (Q6/WD/O1 plus minerals/hoppers and brake van) that the fiddle yard can accomodate and the two screens roads will take these trains split in two.

 

The revised plan meant increasing the fiddle yard baseboard width by 44mm (a convenient piece of 44 x 18 softwood was to hand) so this was duly carried out, see below.

 

20170609_153614.jpg

 

20170609_153705.jpg

 

20170609_155301.jpg

 

The relevant part of the AnyRail track plan was then printed full size on multiple sheets of A4 glued together and placed on the baseboard to see how it aligned with the single track viaduct.

 

20170609_164013.jpg

 

This all looked fine so, taking inspiration from these publications,...

 

20170609_165752.jpg

 

...some mock up structures (screens, pit head and winding house) were made and placed on the track plan, see below.

 

20170609_164218.jpg

 

20170609_164415.jpg

 

I'm well pleased with this so this is the way the layout will now develop.  Slight adjustment to the track plan will be necessary (moving the first colliery point a bit to accomodate the level crossing), I may add a kick back siding for the colliery shunter(s) and the main pit head building is a bit too long but it is a lot simpler now to finalise the track laying, only two more points and point motors to buy and fit.  The operational side of things now fully justifies the Q6 hauled mineral and hopper trains and makes things more prototypical, the previous branch off a branch being extremely short with only the viaduct forming any sort of visual lengthening.  So win win I think.

 

Regards,

Brian.

 

Yep, that's awesome   Great idea!!!!

[jukebox]

Looks like a good move, Brian.

 

I'd definite add the kickback/headshunt - the ability to keep a small tank loco there locally for handling the trains will be fun operationally, and add visual interest.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[Brian D]

Whew! when you said change of plan, I was worried, but what you're looking at is a great idea. It looks really promising.

 

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the improvements.

 

 

Superb Brian and so much more operation, I do love the mock ups and the L/C by the Over Bridge will be scenically lovely.

 

Go for it mate.

 

Thanks for your very supportive comments chaps. You are all convincing me this is the way to go.

 

I agree, the addition of a colliery really sets the layout in the North East, maybe on the back scene behind the Colliery you could have a bleak coastal view wrapping around the left hand end, shades of the coast between South Shields and Sunderland.....just a thought?

 

Might be a bit tricky.  The fiddle yard is raised up behind the pit and therefore the mainline is theoretically in that direction (the exit from the FY is on a short embankment leading to the masonry viaduct) so an inland view would I think make more sense.

 

Yep, that's awesome   Great idea!!!!

 

Thanks mate.

 

Looks like a good move, Brian.

 

I'd definite add the kickback/headshunt - the ability to keep a small tank loco there locally for handling the trains will be fun operationally, and add visual interest.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

 

Thanks Scott, I will definitely incorporate that kick back and it will probably include some limited loco servicing facilities (coal, water, perhaps a small shed).

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

Love a colliery Brian, I also have those two "modelling aspects" books but they're a bit light on north-eastern pits.

 

These two books feature 6 pits each and are a very interesting read giving a history of each with some good photos, both above and below ground. That's Easington on the front of vol 2 and it has a moving account of the 1951 disaster. Vol 1 features Wearmouth which brings back memories (mostly good).

 

20170609_203124.jpg

 

Do you have a particular colliery in mind or will it be a generic one.

 

The retirement layout I am planning will feature a colliery and BR/NCB transfer yard (only 8 years and 4 months to go).

 

Regards,

 

Tom

 

Not really Tom - something generic because of the space limitations.  Easington obviously appeals because of my boyhood links to the place but I've only got room for one shaft.  Perhaps another shaft on the backscene.

My dad, God rest his soul, had an involvement in the enquiry into the Easington disaster.  He trained as a colliery electrician and became an electrical engineer specialising in flame proof switch gear.  That was the reason we moved south when I was small - my dad got a job with Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Mines & Quarries in London (now I think part of the Health and Safety Executive if it's still called that these days).  My dad used to tell me that his grandad helped sink the shaft(s) at Easington.  Very sad to look at the flat field that's all that exists now.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

I thought I'd better plant a coal train in the reception siding to make sure it fits!

 

 

 

Oh, and pose a couple of wagons under the screens.

 

 

Regards,

Brian.

[tom shaw]

Brian,

colliery looks great. Don't know if you've come across this layout but it provides wonderful inspiration.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76110-moving-coal-a-colliery-layout-in-0-gauge/

 

An old picture of Easington heapstead. The left half looks similar to yours, no doubt by design.

 

I followed the advice in the second Modelling Aspects book and bought the Wrightscale headframe kit. Lots of folding and soldering but one would look good sticking out of the top of your heapstead. Sheave hoist yet to add.

 

Finally a washery / loading building, the left hand end would be up against a backscene and empties are pushed under onto a cassette and replaced with fulls to be drawn back out. Just an idea !

 

Looking forward to seeing your progress.

 

Regards,

 

Tom

[danstercivicman]

Wow those are impressive ideas! I think a lot of the pits round here (Black Country) were quite rudimentary... there's still some old pit buildings up near where we live and the operational interest you have added is excellent . A first rate layout just got better!

[Brian D]

Brian,

colliery looks great. Don't know if you've come across this layout but it provides wonderful inspiration.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76110-moving-coal-a-colliery-layout-in-0-gauge/

 

An old picture of Easington heapstead. The left half looks similar to yours, no doubt by design.

Easington.jpg

 

I followed the advice in the second Modelling Aspects book and bought the Wrightscale headframe kit. Lots of folding and soldering but one would look good sticking out of the top of your heapstead. Sheave hoist yet to add.

20140622_204902.jpg

 

Finally a washery / loading building, the left hand end would be up against a backscene and empties are pushed under onto a cassette and replaced with fulls to be drawn back out. Just an idea !

20170123_193418r.jpg

 

Looking forward to seeing your progress.

 

Regards,

 

Tom

 

Any similarity in appearance of my mock up to the Easington pit head building is purely accidental believe me - very useful picture though Tom, very inspirational.

 

Your Headframe looks the business but I'll probably opt for a scratch build using plastic beam and angle sections, that is why I've plonked it on top of a pit head building so I don't have to build all of it.  I've seen some lazer cut mine wheels on flea-bay which I'll probably use - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-Cut-Coal-Mine-Head-Frame-Wheels-x-2-Pit-Head-Colliery-Winding-Gear/111910425200?_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Df31689f509164b9882210b1a55521966%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D111910425200&_trkparms=pageci%253A92373b8f-4ec0-11e7-8c67-74dbd180d56d%257Cparentrq%253A97ec4e2115c0a866eb2add60fffe8144%257Ciid%253A1

 

Your screens look great too btw.  I'm not sure how I'll fill the empties with coal, probably just drop the coal loads back in the hoppers - no room for cassettes unfortunately, good idea though.

 

Thanks again for your interest and comments.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[tom shaw]

I will be using plastic angle for my other headgear based on something like this:

 

 

This is Woodhorn Colliery near Ashington, it's a museum now (just the surface buildings) and very modellable. The headgear at the rear is for the upcast shaft and is sheeted-in using corrugated iron so you wouldn't have to detail the cage guides etc. I could imagine this on top of a steel and brick panelled heapstead.

 

Regards,

 

Tom

[AireValley1962]

Ho, Brian! That looks like an awesome idea! I look forward to seeing it being built.

 

William

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Brian

 

I like the pit idea.

[Toftwood]

I thought I'd better plant a coal train in the reception siding to make sure it fits!

 

20170610_135741rev.jpg

 

20170610_140011rev.jpg

 

Oh, and pose a couple of wagons under the screens.

 

20170610_140254.jpg

 

Regards,

Brian.

 

I hate to be picky and I will almost certainly get shot down, but if this is the North East (propa like) then wagons were 'mainly' 21T hoppers not 16T minerals. I say mainly because obviously 'other wagons' were available, but the mainstay were the Hoppers. 

[Brian D]

I hate to be picky and I will almost certainly get shot down, but if this is the North East (propa like) then wagons were 'mainly' 21T hoppers not 16T minerals. I say mainly because obviously 'other wagons' were available, but the mainstay were the Hoppers. 

 

I agree.  I only ever recall seeing hoppers at Easington.  Perversely, I have seen some pics of minerals at some Durham pits though (he said, scurrying off to check his library in case he was talking out of the wrong orifice).

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

The AnyRail track plan doesn't quite mesh with reality - the single track viaduct is not in the corresponding place as shown on the drawing which makes the pit entry point layout somewhat different than on the drawing.  But I've been experimenting to sort out the mismatch and also to include the kick back shunter spur as below.

 

 

 

This all works well until I looked to check where the point motors go underneath and one of the points is slap bang over a baseboard member.  I have therefore ordered a Mercontrol Starter Pack from Lytchett Manor Models.  This is the trusty wire in tube method of point control - never used it before.  I am inclined to have all three of these points manually controlled without frog polarity switching, or at least I'll give it a try.  I also need to purchase some more points (two RH medium radius and a large radius Y) and some straight track to finalise the colliery and complete all track laying on the layout.  Then, I really must give the layout a proper name.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[tom shaw]

The AnyRail track plan doesn't quite mesh with reality - the single track viaduct is not in the corresponding place as shown on the drawing which makes the pit entry point layout somewhat different than on the drawing.  But I've been experimenting to sort out the mismatch and also to include the kick back shunter spur as below.

 

20170612_175554.jpg

 

20170612_181245.jpg

 

This all works well until I looked to check where the point motors go underneath and one of the points is slap bang over a baseboard member.  I have therefore ordered a Mercontrol Starter Pack from Lytchett Manor Models.  This is the trusty wire in tube method of point control - never used it before.  I am inclined to have all three of these points manually controlled without frog polarity switching, or at least I'll give it a try.  I also need to purchase some more points (two RH medium radius and a large radius Y) and some straight track to finalise the colliery and complete all track laying on the layout.  Then, I really must give the layout a proper name.

 

Regards,

Brian.

Brian,

mount the point motor remotely and drive the point via the wire-in-tube, then you won't have different methods of control.

 

Tom

[5BarVT]

Just looking at your earlier photo of the arriving empties and then the position of the kick back point: have you got room for the NCB shunter to clear the point to draw the wagons back? I hope so, because I do like the look of the kick back and shunter.

I was also wondering if the level crossing could be a mine access road rather than a public road - with all the shunting going on the locals aren't going to be impressed with the long waits.

Sorry for appearing negative, because I do like the colliery idea - as you said, much better than a branch off a branch.

Paul.

[Brian D]

Brian,

mount the point motor remotely and drive the point via the wire-in-tube, then you won't have different methods of control.

 

Tom

 

Thanks, Tom.  Something to think about but due to the baseboard member being directly under the tie bar, the remote drive would have to be on the surface and there's not a lot of space thereabouts.  I'll certainly have a look at your suggestion though.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

Just looking at your earlier photo of the arriving empties and then the position of the kick back point: have you got room for the NCB shunter to clear the point to draw the wagons back? I hope so, because I do like the look of the kick back and shunter.

I was also wondering if the level crossing could be a mine access road rather than a public road - with all the shunting going on the locals aren't going to be impressed with the long waits.

Sorry for appearing negative, because I do like the colliery idea - as you said, much better than a branch off a branch.

Paul.

 

Thanks for the comments.  Unfortunately there isn't quite enough room for the shunter to join the rear of the incoming train without fouling the kick back siding point unless I shorten the train length which I might do.  Otherwise, the NCB shunter could be positioned in one of the screens roads prior to the incoming train's arrival and the kick back used as spare loco storeage.

I very much take your point about the level crossing being blocked a lot of the time by rail traffic.  I am led to believe this happened quite a lot in places like Shotton Colliery in County Durham much to the locals annoyance.  There were no crossing gates at Shotton, just traffic lights which I am now minded to replicate.

Thanks again for your interest.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

I have a couple of yard lengths of SMP track left (still not had a chance to purchase the points, etc for the colliery), enough to get from the mainline junction over the metal viaduct to the first colliery point, so I have tacked yard one in place to check clearances over the viaduct.

 

The worst scenario clearance wise will be to run a dmu or auto-train into the colliery area (if I have enough room to fashion some sort of platform) so the MetroCam was backed down the branch (powered car at the rear - no power in the track yet) thus.

 

 

 

 

All looks well, clearance wise, so the hoppers and a lone Q6 were also tried out.

 

 

 

This all looks promising so no further changes of plan envisaged.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Two_sugars]

I can recall  hoppers, 16 ton minerals, and 7 plank wooden wagons all on one train pulling out of Easington, Horden, and Shotton. . . They didn't seem to care as long as they shifted the black stuff. . 

 

The crossing at Shotton was the most unlevel level crossing in the country. . .I worked at Newton Aycliffe in 1970, and after paying my fare on the way home, I used to go to sleep . . . a nearly 2 hour journey. . . I always woke at the Shotton Crossing! . .

 

Shotton Pit Heap is now an airfield.

 

 

John