Hornby king

[coachmann]

Hornby Dublo's 1950's favourite 'Silver King' (A4) has been swimming around my mind all morning. My dyslexia is getting the better of me as Hornby King and Silver Sidelines got jumbled to produce Hornby Silver King.

[Betty's Husband]

I had three Kings through my hands over Christmas

 

 

 

 

Sorry to hear you have had some bother with the kings. My 6025 is a truly wonderful runner, although I have had a couple of locos (not kings) from big H that have required remedial action prior to running well. It just seems very hit and miss - although in your case surely beyond the balance or probability. 

[Tankdave]

Hello Dave

 

Thanks for the reply.  I didn't think that I would be the only person to have noticed!

In my case it was only the 'narrow bearing' that seemed to be affected.  I thought at first that it might just be paint blocking the slot.. I hope Coachman is not reading this but I just used a little screw driver, the same width as the slot for the bearing and scraped the paint out of the slot and then applied a bit more pressure and continued to scrape out some of the Mazac casting.  The Mazac was very soft and after some gentle scraping and a couple of trial runs  I deemed it a satisfactory result.

 

There is another thread here on RMweb disecting Hornby, I would simply say that I think that I have had more than my fair share of duff models this last twelve months..

 

Regards

 

Ray

 

Thanks for the tip, I have not taken the loco to bits so I have not seen these bearings, but this little job sue needs exploring now.

 

I assume the bearing is a brass coller around the axle that sits in a chassis slot?   I have no idea if it is like this but this is how I'm guessing its done?  I shall have to take a look but I need to finish my Cobalt lever harnesses first.

[Silver Sidelines]

 Yes Dave - the little brass things.

 

I usely take pictures whilst undertaking these exercises but on this occasion I think I was so relieved to get everything back together without breaking anything.....

 

I found it helpful to undo the crank pins on the centre wheel set which allows the centre pair of wheels to be lifted clear leaving the two other pairs of wheels and the coupling rods all in place.

I assume the bearing is a brass coller around the axle that sits in a chassis slot?   I have no idea if it is like this but this is how I'm guessing its done? ....t.

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Dave (again)

.....I have not taken the loco to bits so I have not seen these bearings,..

I have added a Post to my Blog with some pictures that should assist.

 

Regards

 

Ray

[Tankdave]

Hello Dave (again)

I have added a Post to my Blog with some pictures that should assist.

 

Regards

 

Ray

 

 

Than you so much for this info Ray   

[The Fatadder]

Still yet to buy a perfect king...

 

Today I decided to get on with converting my Bristolian king into KIng George V in post war livery.

 

Amazingly when fitted with DCC it worked first time (the first of my 3 Kings to do so)

 

However so far it has lost its 3 lower lamp irons on the tender, the speedometer bracket, a tender hand rail and a pipe under the cab! All this taking place before I started working on it.

 

The lamp irons are a lost cause (one is somewhere on the chipping sodbury club room floor, the other two pinged across my workshop as I tried to refit them. Amazingly for something that fell out, it really didn't want to go back in.). Fortunately the rest will be easy to fix. Now to get on with removing the lining from the other side...

[Downendian]

I'd picked up a cheap Hornby TTS King last week after the DJM/Hattons announcement.

Unfortunately it's had to go back lunchtime today, as the chip wouldn't respond to my functional DCC system (Lenz).

Maybe worthwhile checking rather than let them lie in the stock box for a few weeks (unfortunately a habit I've got into!).

Anyone had similar problems? I've seen in Rich's post above that it maybe an issue others have seen.

Neil

[Hilux5972]

My chip had issues. The sound stopped working but the chip still controlled the loco. In the end I just put a standard decoder in it.

[Coach bogie]

My chip had issues. The sound stopped working but the chip still controlled the loco. In the end I just put a standard decoder in it.

 

I picked up a cheap TTS King as well.

 

No idea if the chip worked as it was removed and filed in the junk box as the only interest I have in DCC is when the fitted engines are being sold for less than the unfitted ones as in this case!

 

Mike Wiltshire

[BWsTrains]

Hi this may sound daft but to save me having to read all 37 pages of this thread (its very late) can anyone tell me if there are any major problems with the Hornby King class? I've looked at one or two on a bidding site, the  'King James II' looked good...but.

As always any help is very welcome.

I had an electrical problem with my first purchase, R3332 British Railways 'King Edward VIII' - internal short. The retailer replaced it and all was fine. He later told me it was a very simple "fix" for him.  My suspicion is that Hornby raced out the first releases with indecent haste (facing the DJM threat) given how many problems have been reported here. The replacement ran very smoothly from day 1 and has been a strong and reliable performer.

 

I took a minor precaution when ordering my 2nd King, 6006 King George I (TTS) and asked the on-line Retailer ("YKW") to do a test before they dispatched it around the world. This they did willingly for the modest "cost" of a 1 day delay.

 

The "unboxing" revealed the King with minor "rub mark on boiler" which according to here is common. I'm the sort that is philosophical about these things; like the first dint on your new car, you get over it!, I just wish /feel they could do better but will not loose sleep, it's forgotten already.

 

Running. To my surprise after its having been tested, the loco took off with a VERY SLIGHT coggy stutter that I'd never experienced in any earlier Hornby purchase. Otherwise it ran fine.

 

After my initial reaction, a bit of Internet research showed

 

1) I was not alone

2) All was not lost

 

Following useful help on the Hornby Forum and elsewhere I did the following:

 

1) lubricated all the recommended spots

2) Ran the loco in properly, 30 min half speed, 30 min 3/4 full speed, then added my own variant, 15 min very low crawling speed

 

All this worked a treat and it now takes off seamlessly. At the price these models sell at, a proper full running in at factory just is not on the cards so a good workout after purchase loosens up any stiff spots.

With hindsight, expecting perfect "out of Box" running seems unreasonable. My last Bachmann came with recommendation of a good run-in so why no do so likewise with Hornby locos? If you pay a Ford price don't expect RR performance!

 

TTS works very well also but will feedback on that later.

Edited February 12, 2017 by BWsTrains

[BWsTrains]

I picked up a cheap TTS King as well.

 

The King TTS    

 

FWIW this is my take; firstly, some thoughts on sound quality in general.

I enjoy good music, have a decent hi-fi and the weakest link in any system are the Speakers. I’m lucky that despite the years slowly pilling up, my high frequency sensitivity is excellent, as it is usual for hearing to decline from the top end with age and then for sounds to tend to become muffled. What this has to do with DCC Sound (of any sort) is

1. You can’t expect full range sound out of a 28mm speaker, however expensive. Small speakers cannot reproduce low frequencies effectively.
2. Speaker location will be important.
3. If a user’s hearing has lost high frequency sensitivity, they will be a poor judge of any sound source. Would you ask someone who couldn’t hear sounds above 8Khz what they think of your Hi-fi?

So, if your DCC Sound loco sounds terrible to you, replace the speaker with a better one before anything else then perhaps consider point 3.

King TTS Sound

I find the sound quality quite acceptable for the purpose; clear and crisp and the various whistles, scrapes chuffs and steam wooshes all seem realistic. Compared to archival films I have for 6024, the weak element of the TTS King sound is in the Bass area, something a tiny speaker has no hope to emulate anyway.

I’ve no intention of buying a more hi Spec Sound DCC so to offer comment must make do with what’s on line. This review of the 6009 with a Loksound chip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCXpqknvFyw&t=251s

 

(running from 2’50”) sounds positively tinny (i.e. awful) when compared to the TSS and hence even further from the real thing. I much prefer the TTS. Just possibly, someone with reduced high frequency sensitivity might find the Loksound better.

Where the Loksound has a clear edge is in the flexibility to upload sounds and change many settings e.g. Chuff rate. On this last point, in the video referred to, loco does not have Chuffs set to synchronise with piston strokes. Easy to count as it slowly accelerates. The Loksound manual provides the CVs to tweak and helpfully adds tips on the steps required, it’s not a trivial task by the sound of it.

 

One final comment on Chuffs. If in doubt, watch a few online videos, I’m happy with the non-prototypical approximation that TTS delivers and in the end that’s what matters to me. Purists will want it perfect but one thing I’ve noted on line watching a 3-cylinder loco was that prototypical chuff rates just sounded bizarre and unrealistic. Some compromise is probably required and Loksound cover this issue as well.

 

Bass woofer and sub-amp in carriage #1 anyone?

Edited February 12, 2017 by BWsTrains

[57xx]

One final comment on Chuffs. If in doubt, watch a few online videos, I’m happy with the non-prototypical approximation that TTS delivers and in the end that’s what matters to me. Purists will want it perfect but one thing I’ve noted on line watching a 3-cylinder loco was that prototypical chuff rates just sounded bizarre and unrealistic. Some compromise is probably required and Loksound cover this issue as well.

 

Any 3 cylinder chuff rate, prototypical or not, will sound wrong for a King.

[BWsTrains]

Any 3 cylinder chuff rate, prototypical or not, will sound wrong for a King.

To Clarify,

 

my point was that prototypical chuff rates in general do not sound realistic, particularly at higher speeds. If you doubt this, LokSpeed say in their manual (p72) "Quite small driving wheel diameters are likely to make the steam chuffs sound very good at small and medium speeds; however during high speed it sounds strangely distorted and ticked off."

 

The video I'd watched illustrated that point rather well. It was just that it was done with a 3 Cylinder loco, that's all. Probably equally applicable in same context for a King but I can't test that point.

[coachmann]

When it comes to DCC sound, it is clear to me that many posts are not from people with experience who have purchased good sound files and experimented for hours, days, weeks and even months with the CV's and speakers trying to get the best out of DCC sound. The TTS sound in the 'King' cannot be altered to 4 beats per wheel revolution.  One chuff per wheel revolution changing to two chuffs as the King gather speed is pure toytown, which a better speaker will never improve.  

Edited February 12, 2017 by coachmann

[Silver Sidelines]

Well done Larry

When it comes to DCC sound, it is clear to me that many posts are not from people with experience who have purchased good sound files and experimented for hours, days, weeks and even months with the CV's and speakers trying to get the best out of DCC sound. T..

As I am discovering it can take a lot of time and patience.

 

Regards

 

Ray

[coachmann]

Well done Larry

As I am discovering it can take a lot of time and patience.

 

Regards

 

Ray

I originally relied on a friend to set up my sound and I thought he mus be a mathematician the way he swiftly stabbed the buttons. Then one day I realised he must have thought I was taking liberites so I asked him to explain what he was doing. For some reason it gelled and so i bought a Lenz LH100 handset. Setting CV's and seeing what they were capable of producing with sound, acceleration and so-forth became a way of life for me for much of last summer. My friend printed out graphs that he advised me to fill in so that I could go back if I cocked something up. Trouble now is, I have been without a layout for over four months and I fear everything will have to be learned all over again!

Edited February 12, 2017 by coachmann

[JSpencer]

At the end of the day my wife brought me a TTS sound fitted Blue King for the bargain price of £129. As it will appear on the layout only from time to time, this is an adequate replacement for a 30 year old tender driven blue King (well, you cannot replace all the old stuff at once!).

The option of a fully fitted sound King is beyond what will get authorised for the yearly budget by the CFO. Meaning if my present had been around £250, a big "No" would have happened.

 

However I go overboard on more work-a-day locos like my BR C class with firebox glow tied in with the chip, working lights etc. Or the same with a black 5 (here smoke was added, but the sound stops abruptly each time I turn the smoke on!). 

 

I'll be adding TTS to a Castle though when the chip is out as this too is a from time to time loco.

[BWsTrains]

I originally relied on a friend to set up my sound and I thought he mus be a mathematician the way he swiftly stabbed the buttons. Then one day I realised he must have thought I was taking liberites so I asked him to explain what he was doing. For some reason it gelled and so i bought a Lenz LH100 handset. Setting CV's and seeing what they were capable of producing with sound, acceleration and so-forth became a way of life for me for much of last summer. My friend printed out graphs that he advised me to fill in so that I could go back if I cocked something up. Trouble now is, I have been without a layout for over four months and I fear everything will have to be learned all over again!

Coachmann,

 

brilliant responses, thank you. Exactly what I'd expected to hear about, see my emphasis above.

 

Now it's been made absolutely clear in this place that the path to good sound is anything but trivial in time and complexity, Loksound hint at this themselves and my post was in part to hear some real experiences of what's involved get a decent sound result.

Nothing stands still for ever and maybe a future generation of chips + some form of external monitoring might reduce the sync process to an automated fine tuning, at a price.

 

Meanwhile I'm happy in my space as I trust you will be in yours.

[Tony_S]

I don't have many GW locomotives but have occasionally been tempted and one recent acquisition was King Charles II. Having seen the various photos of dodgy wiring I installed my dcc decoder after careful inspection and prodding with a multimeter. Sprog and JMRI didn't report any issues and everything went well. I did knock a tender buffer (and associated lamp iron) off removing the loco from the expanded polystyrene but soon sorted with a spot of superglue.

Tony

[The Fatadder]

My curse with the Hornby king continues, today I've been fitting a tts decoder to the ex Bristolian king. On the programming track it's coming up as a short. There's no short on the loco (of the 42xx I use as a decoder test bed), but I can't see a short on the chip. What's likely to be wrong?

[Tankdave]

Got around to trying this bearing-seat scraping as suggested a few posts back, spent a good hour at it and gave up when I could hardly detect any clearance under the rear wheel with a ruler up against all 3 driving wheels

 

Mine only had the bearing issue on one side of the centre wheeel, I rekon I scraped out  0.5mm, I then tested it and "boy" she runs rather well now, none of that rear end waggling side to side, the loco stays straight at all speeds.

 

When checked by laying down next to the test track "glasses off", all wheels do seem to be touching the rails at the same time. "how novel Mr Hornby"

 

So thanks to Ray for his advice & blog and a "slap" to Hornby for such poor QC.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Tankdave

[Silver Sidelines]

Thanks Dave

Got around to trying this bearing-seat scraping as suggested a few posts back,..., I then tested it and "boy" she runs rather well now, none of that rear end waggling side to side, the loco stays straight at all speeds.

..

I have only just spotted your Post.  I must have been preoccupied adjusting CVs on my King with LokSound Micro (on analogue DC).

 

Regards

 

Ray

[Star-rider]

My curse with the Hornby king continues, today I've been fitting a tts decoder to the ex Bristolian king. On the programming track it's coming up as a short. There's no short on the loco (of the 42xx I use as a decoder test bed), but I can't see a short on the chip. What's likely to be wrong?

 

Out of curiosity, which decoder did you fit? (The thread had dived off on a "sound" tangent and I am a bit lost!)

 

I have two of the new generation Hornby Kings, both were fitted and worked well with my favoured Bachmann 36-553 decoder. As these were my most expensive locomotive purchases ever I decided to push on and fit a Loksound decoder to one as my first flirtation with steam sound. After fifteen minutes or so of running I got the same short you have described. Putting the 36-553 back in revealed that all was still well with the locomotive and track.

 

There was no obvious damage to the Loksound decoder; this was returned to the retailer who replaced it without question.

 

Pete.

[The Fatadder]

Originally working with a Lenz gold, then fitted a Hornby tts

 

So I suspect I have fried the chip, then made it worse by redoing the pins wiring trying to fix it myself rather than just sending to Hornby...