Hornby king

[Metr0Land]

Still the wrong one for nunney castle, in BR livery either way.

 

Hornby seems reluctant to do a single chimney late crest castle in any form. That said, it was the staple diet for many years prior on the old tooling, though that was the norm for the class.

 

An easy one to do would be 4082 Windsor castle, early crest collett tender, photographs show it with curved, flat topped and stepped versions. Though admittedly one variant was that it swapped identities with 7013 Bristol Castle in 1952.

Wasn't there a castle with an 8 wheeled collett tender at one point ?

 

 

We seem to have strayed a bit from a King however.

 

Remaining  

 

Scroll down to #17 for alloc of 8 wheel Collett tender

 

https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/gwr-tenders.16870/

[The Fatadder]

Remaining  

 

Scroll down to #17 for alloc of 8 wheel Collett tender

https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/gwr-tenders.16870/

Thanks for that, I didn't realise that 5071 had at one time the 8 wheel tender. I hope it had gone by 47!

[Coach bogie]

Thanks for that, I didn't realise that 5071 had at one time the 8 wheel tender. I hope it had gone by 47!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-GWR-CASTLE-CLASS-LOCO-NO-5071-SPITFIRE-/191953300098?hash=item2cb14eea82:g:fckAAOSwVFlT-gHl

 

Mike Wiltshire

[B15nac]

Went to my local model shop today and I saw the latest batch of kings it looks like Hornby has sorted the lower part of the boiler as it now sits true with no step. The BR blue one with single chimney is still incorrect as it has lubricator covers on both sides of the smoke box instead of one large one on the drivers side. All very nice looking models though.

 

Neil

[TerrySVR]

Is it me or does the green on the Hornby Kings look a little strange?

[The Fatadder]

Is it me or does the green on the Hornby Kings look a little strange?

Not just you, it's common to all Hornby GWR locos, sadly they won't listen when it's pointed out to them. I'm thinking about re varnishing it with something a little more shiny (I think a satin varnish ought to do it.). Looking at this photo of my King that is halfway through a renumbering and conversion to G crest W livery you can see the shiny patch where the old logo was is a much darker, richer green. In the flesh at least I think it looks a lot closer to the real thing, just need to find an aerosol varnish which does the same thing and go through with it. Either way the tender needs a revarnish to get a consistent finish.

 

Incidentally to anyone thinking of rebranding a King, I found Microsol didn't work nearly as well as usual in removing the old logos so an alternate approach my yield better results.

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by The Fatadder

[Ian Hargrave]

Is it me or does the green on the Hornby Kings look a little strange?

Tell me the old,old story which angel voices tell.

[Garethp8873]

I had the pleasure yesterday of getting Hornby's latest set, the Bristolian yesterday from my supplier AGR Models in Leighton Buzzard. Very impressed with the GWR King in this set. Am I thinking the GWR Green on this version is slightly darker than the King James I release? Either way it's a great set.

[No Decorum]

Is it me or does the green on the Hornby Kings look a little strange?

If you were to omit the word “little” I think I’d agree but I need to tread carefully. Hornby has listened to the comments and responded that the colour is correct. Chris Leigh has pointed out that the livery resembles the finish of a museum-preserved example. I assume (always a dangerous thing to do) that the finish in question has not been exposed to weather but it is old and may well have dulled with age, losing some of its sparkle.

 

However, and here I expect to get a bit of battering, it is a very unattractive livery, whether it is authentic or not. It seems to me that various manufacturers have applied shades of colours which are attractive but not necessarily authentic, the classic example being rail blue. The original colour was a subtle shade and, for want of a better description, not a pure, clear blue. Models often appear in a clearer, more intense blue which appears to me, if no-one else, more attractive than the original. Can it be that we are more ready to accept a colour which is not altogether authentic so long as it is attractive?

 

Another example is Hornby’s blue King. As I have said before, I think it is too light a shade but it has the advantage of being much more attractive and doesn’t seem to have attracted the ire of the green.

[JSpencer]

As said elsewhere, colours don't scale down well. In anycase it is scientifically proven that the perception of reality is very different from one person to the next. When it comes to colour, even camera's cannot agree, even the photo was taken at same moment, angle etc etc can produce different results.

 

Remember most of us will run these indoors whereby light is considerably less and the mix of wave lengths, considerably different. I personally think the GW and BR greens look ok to me and can be on shed with other locos from other makes in the same liveries, but accept that is my perception of reality.

[coachmann]

I happen to think that Hornby's shade of GWR/BR green suffers from having white in it. GWR green can be mixed from blue, yellow & red. The 1928-42 shade was at the yellow end of the spectrum and may even have been revived after the war. But I rather suspect the GWR added slightly more blue after the war to avoid the khaki-ness that was complained about in the mid 1930's when the paint was diluted with too much thinners (Railway Mag). The 1945 shade might possibly be the green adopted by BR. 

 

Since around 1991 it appears to me that preservation has followed modelling with quite a number of GWR locos appearing in the readily obtainable BS.224 Deep Bronze Green. LMS 'Scots Guardsman' too looks to carry this colour having seen stills and movie of this engine in Chester.

 

Returning to BR days, it wouldn't surprise me if steam and diesel locos were painted with the same green by the early 1960's. Diesel green always looked bluier than the loco green I was accustomed to. Lack of lining out could cause this perception of course, but I do recall seeing Brits and Jubilee's looking bluer than they had looked in the 1950's.

 

I still have an amount of cellulose that was mixed to match Precision Paints GWR 1945 green, which to me always looked closer to the mark than PPC's BR green. I also have dry and wet samples of PPC's GWR 1928 green (gloss) and this is much closer to the aforementioned Deep Bronze Green.

 

David Jenkinson penned an article under a nom-de-plume in 'Backtrack' in which he said railway colours were not as complicated as the amateur press made out. Quite simply, BR adopted GWR green. The question is, did GWR green change slightly due to notorious postwar shortages and did BR really mean to adopt the 'standard' green that had been in use since 1928. 

 

When it comes to attractive colours, the pre-war GWR green certainly has it over the bluier shade we often see on models. Two weeks ago I repainted a red 'Hall' in Deep Brnze Green. There was nothing scientific about it! I dun it 'cos I like the green. Some professional model painters have used it for years.  

Edited September 14, 2016 by coachmann

[Star-rider]

I too think that the green on recent Hornby GWR locomotives looks unattractive.

 

The problem is that at the tender age of 54 I have never seen a locomotive whilst it was owned and operated by the Great Western. My instinctive reference point therefore is the other models I have (older Hornby, Bachmann, Mainline etc.) and I have no way of knowing if these are right anyway.

 

The biggest problem is that the later Hornby model colour is much more inconsistent with the other older locos that I operate. Even if they are right, they just look a little dowdy.

 

My Bristolian pack arrived yesterday so when I get to lifting it out of the tray I will make a comparison to King James and see if Garethp8873’s instinct is right!

 

OK, back to my play-pen……..

[brushman47544]

Another example is Hornby’s blue King. As I have said before, I think it is too light a shade but it has the advantage of being much more attractive and doesn’t seem to have attracted the ire of the green.

 

The BR green being later will have been seen in the flesh by more of us, so in theory we have mental images of the prototypes to help us assess the colour. That's not the case, certainly for me, of BR express blue so we may subconsciously be more willing to accept what looks right and is more attractive.

[The Stationmaster]

The BR green being later will have been seen in the flesh by more of us, so in theory we have mental images of the prototypes to help us assess the colour. That's not the case, certainly for me, of BR express blue so we may subconsciously be more willing to accept what looks right and is more attractive.

 

I think that is spot on.  I probably saw BR 'express passenger' blue but I was far too young for it to register so I have no memory of it but colour samples are available from contemporaneous publications and they might or might not be accurate but the similarly dated green does look right.  however blue was long known as a  colour very susceptible to weathering effects so whatever might have started as a particular shade could well have changed subtly or less than subtly.

 

I am of course of an age where i was well familiar with BR green on the engines of various Regions but particularly the Western and Eastern but I am too young to have knowingly seen GWR green in traffic although I did see it on one early preserved example in the form of 'City of Truro' in York museum (the old museum that is)plus the various officially preserved locos painted in the 1960s at Swindon.

 

But all these memories are exactly that - memories and only decent, well preserved, colour sample and panels provide a true guidance unless the really skilled preservationists have carefully matched those colours - and then we are in their hands, and are also looking at a different form of weathering from past everyday operation.  I think I know what looks right for WR operational green in the late 1950s/early '60s but others might have a  different perception of course.

[asmay2002]

But all these memories are exactly that - memories and only decent, well preserved, colour sample and panels provide a true guidance unless the really skilled preservationists have carefully matched those colours - and then we are in their hands, and are also looking at a different form of weathering from past everyday operation.  I think I know what looks right for WR operational green in the late 1950s/early '60s but others might have a  different perception of course.

 

Everybody thinks they can remember colour shades accurately but they are wrong.  It has been scientifically proved that no one can accurately distinguish an exact shade from similar ones after more than a few minutes.  The only way to be sure is actual paint samples and as you rightly say paint weathers. 

Edited September 16, 2016 by asmay2002

[rovex]

Oh wouldn't it be funny if Hornby's shade of green turns out to be correct 

[Ian Hargrave]

Oh wouldn't it be funny if Hornby's shade of green turns out to be correct 

When might that day be?

[Ian Hargrave]

Everybody thinks they can remember colour shades accurately but they are wrong.  It has been scientifically proved that no one can accurately distinguish an exact shade from similar ones after more than a few minutes.  The only way to be sure is actual paint samples and as you rightly say paint weathers.

 

Well,"scientifically proven" is ok for toothpaste ads but I still prefer my own judgement on the matter of Hornby BR//GWR green notwithstanding perceived wisdom.I know it's wrong because it's indelibly ingrained in my conscious memory.It ought to be because I saw enough of it.

The blue as applied to most 8P engines and to some A3's is easier to live with due to the inherent instability of the paint in everyday use on the prototype but looked magnificent when first applied....and yes,I remember them too...from the Kings on Paddington-Birkenhead services to my first A4...60006 on the down "Heart Of Midlothian" ...to the Merchant Navies at Waterloo etc,etc...

[gwrrob]

When might that day be?

The same day that saw the Star class get extra spokes on the bogie wheels.

Edited September 16, 2016 by gwrrob

[Edwardian]

The same day that saw the Star class get extra spokes on the bogie wheel.

 

Or the day after, when it gets separately applied cab-side hand rails?

 

Just the one wheel?

[toboldlygo]

Well,"scientifically proven" is ok for toothpaste ads but I still prefer my own judgement on the matter of Hornby BR//GWR green notwithstanding perceived wisdom.I know it's wrong because it's indelibly ingrained in my conscious memory.It ought to be because I saw enough of it.

The blue as applied to most 8P engines and to some A3's is easier to live with due to the inherent instability of the paint in everyday use on the prototype but looked magnificent when first applied....and yes,I remember them too...from the Kings on Paddington-Birkenhead services to my first A4...60006 on the down "Heart Of Midlothian" ...to the Merchant Navies at Waterloo etc,etc...

 

Colour - I always thought people saw in Black and White, back in the Steam Age   

[Ian Hargrave]

Colour - I always thought people saw in Black and White, back in the Steam Age   

No....I had an Ilford Sportsman  35mm which took colour piccies/slides.Trouble is,I can't find them now...probably as a result of wife's current downsizing sweep

Edited September 16, 2016 by Ian Hargrave

[toboldlygo]

No....I had an Ilford Sportsman  35mm which took colour piccies/slides.Trouble is,I can't find them now...probably as a result of wife's current downsizing sweep

 

As long as she doesn't decide to send you to Barry Island...

[Silver Sidelines]

Is it just me but I don't see a King?

 

Regards

 

Ray

[railroadbill]

It is a well known fact that GWR 1928 green, post war GWR green, BR brunswick green and early diesel green are exactly the same colour (hue tint/shade saturation etc) as Halfords Rover Brooklands green acrylic paint.  Especially when given a top coat of Testors Dullcote on objects scaled down 76 times from full size.

 

 

 

ps I'm told that next grandchild due to arrive imminently could well have a name as carried by a King class (don't think that was actually a factor though).   So I suppose I 'll just have to get another king , if they do go with that....