RMweb Gold Downendian Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Modeller Robert Burdock from Buckfastleigh has been told to dismantle loft layout due to Health and Safety concerns. I don't make habit of reading the daily Mail, but this cropped up in a Google search. I haven't seen reference to this story although it's over a year ago. Seems heavy handed to me, I guess not if the roof timbers have been removed and/or rotten, but salient warnings for those playing trains in the loft. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324953/End-line-model-railway-fan-housing-association-demands-dismantle-10-000-train-set-attic-health-safety-grounds.html Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 There could be more to it than meets the eye, he could well have removed the cross trussing rendering the roof unsafe. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Sounds like he's made alterations to a house which he doesn't own and, in doing so, is in breach of a signed agreement. Nothing to do with a model railway as such and nothing to do with elf'n'safety. Typical Daily Wail beat-up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Never believe what you read in the news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewipe Jct Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Not really the overbearing hand of the wicked, evil H&S, though is it, if you read the article?Chap's chosen to live in a housing association property that has rules regarding alterations to said property (to quote: "Paul Davies, head of asset management, said: 'It is part of our tenancy agreement that tenants must seek permission to make any alterations to our properties so that we can make sure it is safe and meets the required building regulations."). He appears not to have bothered to do this & it's come back to bite him now he wants his chimney repaired. Also note that nowhere does it actually state that he's not allowed to have the railway, just that they need it removed to assess that it's actually safe to be there in the first place (which he should have discussed with them in the first place...). The final two quotes from the housing association are quite telling, I believe (with my emphasis), "We have written to Mr Burdock to explain that all items in the loft space must be removed so that we can gain access and reinstate the timber members to ensure the property is safe", and "Once this work has been done, we will look at ways for Mr Burdock's train set to be accommodated safely."Typical storm-in-a-teacup stirring from the Daily Heil... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Never believe what you read in the news. The date is usually right. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Where exactly did that £10k price tag for the train set come from? (No need to answer I think I can guess.......) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewipe Jct Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Where exactly did that £10k price tag for the train set come from? (No need to answer I think I can guess.......) He's been watching 'Bargain Hunt' or 'Antiques Roadshow' - that's the 'insurance value'... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Brit70053 Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2014 Journalists' dictum " Never let the facts get in the way of a good story" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 We had a similar case here in Fairbourne where someone cut and modified roof trusses to accommodate a model layout, without any building regulations approval. When the house came to be sold some years later, it was seriously devalued because the house was deemed to have a sub standard roof. What was worse, it was a semi so potentially could have had impacts on next door's roof as well. Building regs are there for a reason and have evolved over the years to protect the public, not to give the Daily Crapwrap a "health and safety gone wrong" story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Not really the overbearing hand of the wicked, evil H&S, though is it, if you read the article? Chap's chosen to live in a housing association property that has rules regarding alterations to said property (to quote: "Paul Davies, head of asset management, said: 'It is part of our tenancy agreement that tenants must seek permission to make any alterations to our properties so that we can make sure it is safe and meets the required building regulations."). He appears not to have bothered to do this & it's come back to bite him now he wants his chimney repaired. Also note that nowhere does it actually state that he's not allowed to have the railway, just that they need it removed to assess that it's actually safe to be there in the first place (which he should have discussed with them in the first place...). The final two quotes from the housing association are quite telling, I believe (with my emphasis), "We have written to Mr Burdock to explain that all items in the loft space must be removed so that we can gain access and reinstate the timber members to ensure the property is safe", and "Once this work has been done, we will look at ways for Mr Burdock's train set to be accommodated safely." Reminds me of the characters who tend to ignore established rules in the quest, for example, to satisfy their own curiosity or possibly compulsive behaviour. Sawing through or removing RSJs to make space for something else is but one manifestation. Best-known example I can think of was the late Fred Dibnah, who turned his back garden into a 70ft-deep mine shaft, leading to fears from some neighbours that it could lead to a weakening / collapse of neighbouring foundations. Then there was the council tenant (i think he was either in Camden or Hackney) who, over the course of several years and for no particular reason, created an entire system of tunnels underneath his home, and also that of neighbouring properties! The full extent of the system was only discovered after he died! I think he was nicknamed "Rat Man" at one stage. Where exactly did that £10k price tag for the train set come from? (No need to answer I think I can guess.......) Maybe he's a regular customer of Gosturde? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hmmm....I'm not so sure. He say's that he has merely floored and boarded it. Looks to me like the adjacent house is identical so a quick check of that loft would prove one way or the other whether structural timbers have been removed. If he hasn't removed any timbers, then he probably hasn't affected the structural integrity of the house. (Okay, there's the issue of the extra weight up there.) I would have thought that a surveyor could remove a bit of the flooring, a bit of the cladding and have a general poke around to make an initial assessment WITHOUT him having to remove the entire layout. At that stage, if there are any remaining doubts then yes, it's gonna have to come out, but I do just wonder whether the demand to remove it immediately is just a bit heavy handed, and whether there's really any problem with it all, apart from the fact that he didn't ask first. Without knowing for certain whether or not timbers were removed I remain open minded about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajaxjones Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Where exactly did that £10k price tag for the train set come from? (No need to answer I think I can guess.......) No doubt bought a starter set but added DCC and sound Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hi, Sorry to say, but it's been covered a couple of times before on the forum, somewhere. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted October 14, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Simon I did search, but nothing showed up. Happy for mods to lock if a link to original threads are identified. Still - I think it's a valuable lesson not to interfere with the structural integrity of where you live to find a place to house the railway. we don't know for sure this is what has been done, but Pyewipe's quote from the article suggest they may have been. I know I had a particularly intrusive A beam in my 1950s house, but wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. My railway is now in a spare room, and daughter 1 gained the loft for their penthouse suite when the boyfriend moved in. Edit : still no sign of this story on RMweb with several search strings. Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 The normal search function doesn't work on Wheeltappers topics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2014 Reminds me of the characters who tend to ignore established rules in the quest, for example, to satisfy their own curiosity or possibly compulsive behaviour. Sawing through or removing RSJs to make space for something else is but one manifestation. Best-known example I can think of was the late Fred Dibnah, who turned his back garden into a 70ft-deep mine shaft, leading to fears from some neighbours that it could lead to a weakening / collapse of neighbouring foundations. Then there was the council tenant (i think he was either in Camden or Hackney) who, over the course of several years and for no particular reason, created an entire system of tunnels underneath his home, and also that of neighbouring properties! The full extent of the system was only discovered after he died! I think he was nicknamed "Rat Man" at one stage. Maybe he's a regular customer of Gosturde? There was a guy in Kelevdon, Essex who wanted a basement, not for a model railway. When nearly complete his house fell into it, it didn't do much good to the other houses in the terrace. You get other people who build extensions without permission. One example comes to mind of a chap who built over the top of a sewer manhole. He wanted to sue the water company when his new kitchen filled up with his neighbours' doings. Things weren't helped when his was building the new extension he was washing out the cement mixer and pouring the slurry down the manhole he later covered over. :scratchhead: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Some of these people are only one step away from receiving a "Darwin" award but never underestimate the ingenuity of a fool as there is no such thing as fool proof! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The only thing that should be totally believed in any newspaper is "Fish & Chips" with a little salt and vinegar, says I. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 It does make you wonder how many DIY loft conversions for layouts actually meet building regs..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 It does make you wonder how many DIY loft conversions for layouts actually meet building regs..... As Paul Daniels would say - 'not a lot' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 South west landlord Teign Housing has ordered Robert Burdock to clear away the 70 feet of track after discovering supporting beams had been removed from the loft, and heating and electrics installed. My bold. From here: http://www.rentdirectuk.co.uk/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1607 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 The bloke is a builder! Anyone on the local area who has used him ought to get things checked out. Unless there's some missing information on the structural work it sounds like a real cowboy job. And I bet he isn't a qualified electrician, so anything more than simple electrics will be illegal too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Simon I did search, but nothing showed up. Happy for mods to lock if a link to original threads are identified. Neil Hi Neil, Had a look through, and found it quite a way back: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79027-end-of-the-line/ Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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