topsy11 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Hello. After getting some bits and pieces together to convert my Bachmann 221 train to DCC I've come online to buy a controller so I can swap to DCC. My main layout is 14'6" x 9'6" which extends to 14' wide and down to an 8' x 2' container yard. Its basically a 3 loop with a bit of a yard off the main loop. I'll have a couple of points to control and want to control some lighting signals. I only plan on having 7/8 loco's and only 2/3 running at once. I've finally got my head around wiring up for DCC (I think). I've already started a thread which brushed on this topic and appreciate the best way to choose a controller is to try but I can't really find anywhere local (Dudley) that stocks a few brands that I can play with. I don't really fancy trying them at a show as its not really the place to get a proper feel for a controller. I've watched numerous youtube videos showing the setting up and various functions of some of the more popular controllers. I've looked at the Hornby select which seems very basic, the select elite looks a little better although its out of stock at most places so I'm guessing its fairly old now and going to be replaced?? I've looked at the NCE Powercab - this one seems quite good, decent price and has quite a few functions and some good reviews on here. Lenz Set 100 - Seems quite pricey and looks a little basic. Bachmann Dynamis - Really like this - my favourite one I've looked at although it seems a newer model 36-504 is imminent although I can't find any info on it?? Is the 36-505 still a decent controller as they can be had for £100 2nd hand and very tempting. Anything else to consider. I know each one had its good/bad points and different features so a last bit of reassurance before committing would be greatly appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devious diesel Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Hi I have a dynamis and have recently bought a powercab for a second layout. Out of the two I would strongly recommend the powercab. The dynamis is more of a toy compared to the powercab. David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 You have clearly done some research and discovered how subjective the assessment is. I would suggest: forget Select consider Elite only if you want to use Elink/Railmaster if you like Dynamis, ensure that, in use, you will always be able to give the hand-set a clear view of the transmitter as it is wireless - otherwise it will not receive the signal. This certainly applies to the older version. Some contributors to this forum have found that the hand-set stops responding to the buttons so a second-hand purchase could be dodgy I have and like Powercab but also have the booster and Procab. Some contributors hereto seem to have found the power supply with the basic set inadequate. No doubt my comments will spark some controversy but I hope they help rather than hinder! Harold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Everyone has their favourite and will usually recommend theire choice - who wants to admit that they bought a lemon? The main problem for people just starting out with DCC is that they may not spot the deficiencies in specifications which will have a big impact in the way systems work or the convenience in use. If you have decided that a hand held controller is for you then the one which is least likely to disappoint you in the long term is the NCE PowerCab. It is a complete system in its own right and can be expanded later if required. To get the best from your DCC equipped models you will use your controller for managing and improving the running of your models, mostly via CVs. In order to change them successfully, you need to be able to read the existing values. That rules out the Hornby Select and the Dynamis which are incapable of this basic task. How many PowerCabs do you see available second hand? And how many Bachmann Dynamis? So why would this be? People tend to hold on to kit which works and 'pass on' the stuff they find out later does not live up to what they expect. I own several different brands, so that I can test my sound projects' operation with a range of systems before release, but the one I always take to shows to demonstrate my sound projects is the PowerCab. I do so because it is intuitive to use, invaluable when demonstrating to a crowd when I want my projects to shine and my DCC system to be 'invisible'. It is not faultless in that some of the things it does could be a bit more convenient, but it does do everything you will ever need, is realiable and proven and at around £135 represents the most cost effective way to a fully functioning DCC system. Good luck, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Hello, Might I sugest a look at the Merg website.DCC just for driving locos or both Locos and accessories.It seems a bit overwhelming at first but does widen ones options and choices for operating model railways.It is a whealth of information on all aspects of layout control and operation. trustytrev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Hello, Might I sugest a look at the Merg website.DCC just for driving locos or both Locos and accessories.It seems a bit overwhelming at first but does widen ones options and choices for operating model railways.It is a whealth of information on all aspects of layout control and operation. trustytrev. That's great advice for anyone with time for research and the ability to build his own stuff, but this guy's in a hurry, see the thread title! Ha ha Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweasel Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm in much the same boat. No one near me has systems to try,so I'm planning a 200 mile round trip to DCC Supplies. The Powercab sounds good, but I'm drawn towards the Didgitrax Zephyr because of the "analogue" handle I'm used to. I have an E-link at the moment but I can't see much expansion in it. Good for basic starter though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I have and like Powercab but also have the booster and Procab. Some contributors hereto seem to have found the power supply with the basic set inadequate. No doubt my comments will spark some controversy but I hope they help rather than hinder! Harold. The power supply is limited to 2amp on the basic Powercab as bought, but there are of course boosters. Having said that I have had a basic Powercab for some years now and haven't found the need to increase the output. However I rarely use more than two locos on a small layout and having set the 'cab to show amps being used it is not often that it shows more than about 0.5 amp. You don't have to use all it's capabilities straightaway, it can be as simple as you like. Later on if you want/need to do some CV twiddling it is easy to do that.. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsy11 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks for the replies gents, I'm going to go for the powercab everyone seems to have praise for it and it's reasonably priced. I'm gonna stick to my guns and stop looking :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I am biased as I have NCE systems - a Power Pro for home and Power Cabs for exhibition use. The Power Cabs become Pro Cabs on the Power Pro system so there is no redundancy of components.The Digitrax Zephyr also has its good points and is probably the closest in features and price to the Power Cab (a bit of swings and roundabouts when comparing features). This also can become a part of a larger Digitrax system later on, so again, no redundant components.Even though you have decided on the NCE, my advice to others is to look also at the abilities for computer connectivity (Gaugemaster/MRC lose out on this one), and the ability to read back values (Dynamis loses out here). While you may not envisage using a computer initially, there are advantages in using JMRI's Decoder Pro for programming decoders, as well as the possibilities for some automation and the ability to create virtual throttles. If you get into sound, the ability to download sounds and reblow decoders also comes into it (at a cost for a SPROG or LokProgrammer).In choosing the NCE you have allowed for all of the above ... sort of future-proofing your system. Several of the other brands can also do this (for the benefit of others who are also shopping around for DCC systems). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soony Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Topsy11, If you want to try a few DCC setups , try Oakes, vicarage road, Oldbury , they have layouts set up to do just that , or Tennants in Halesowen, but you need to ask as they are upstairs. Remember that not all DCC equipment is sold by every shop. Personally its NCE for me every time... Plug and go without fail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 if you like Dynamis, ensure that, in use, you will always be able to give the hand-set a clear view of the transmitter as it is wireless - otherwise it will not receive the signal. By way of further explanation, most people will assume wireless to mean radio. The Dynamis uses Infra-red, not radio, hence the line of site requirement. If you get into sound, the ability to download sounds and reblow decoders also comes into it (at a cost for a SPROG or LokProgrammer). A SPROG can only read/write the normal CVs (including adjusting sound volumes, etc). It cannot be used to load new sound projects into a decoder. Each decoder brand requires it's own proprietary interface to do that. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Interesting that Digitrax barely gets a mention. This was the system I had when starting out. It does what it says on the tin but it is complicated to use, not intuitive and the ergonomics leave a lot to be desired. The lads in the club, to a man, hated it. I now have the Powercab and love it. The large club layout also has NCE Pro. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Interesting that Digitrax barely gets a mention. This was the system I had when starting out. It does what it says on the tin but it is complicated to use, not intuitive and the ergonomics leave a lot to be desired. The lads in the club, to a man, hated it. I now have the Powercab and love it. The large club layout also has NCE Pro. John Some people say what you say John. Others like Digitrax. Comments from some of my fellow modellers are that the DT402 (the complicated one with lots of buttons) is really nice to use. So, it depends. And depends on LOTS of different factors around the individual(s) and the layout, the nature of control wanted, etc.. There is no substitute for a proper try-out of a system. Best way is to find a layout with a system and try it, and ask the layout owners about the shortcomings (there will be some!). Then decide what meets your needs. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 ...Lenz Set 100 - Seems quite pricey and looks a little basic... Less is more! Superb documentation, bombproof build and reliability, handset small enough to be operated single handed, with cup of tea or shunter's pole in the other paw. Despite the wide adoption of Lenz kit you don't see much on line comment about problems with it. That's because it works exactly as it says in the manual, which is a pretty vital attribute in what is a 'black box' control system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Sorry, but I saw the title of this thread and thought "if that's the effect buying a DCC controller has, I'll stick with DC. I've got enough headaches in life without needing another one! Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Some people say what you say John. Others like Digitrax. Comments from some of my fellow modellers are that the DT402 (the complicated one with lots of buttons) is really nice to use. So, it depends. And depends on LOTS of different factors around the individual(s) and the layout, the nature of control wanted, etc.. There is no substitute for a proper try-out of a system. Best way is to find a layout with a system and try it, and ask the layout owners about the shortcomings (there will be some!). Then decide what meets your needs. - Nigel I fully agree Nigel, there are a lot of people who love Digitrax. It was the DT402 that I had. Happily I was able to sell my system. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks for the replies gents, I'm going to go for the powercab everyone seems to have praise for it and it's reasonably priced. I'm gonna stick to my guns and stop looking :-) I think you've made a good choice. But spend a bit more and get a circuit breaker to protect the PowerCab from shorts. These can damage it and then you have to send it back to the US for repair. I found this the hard way. From the description of your layout I doubt you will need to upgrade to PowerPro (5A). The PowerCab is rated at 2A and I find I rarely go over 0.3A - that's with a circuit breaker (uses some power) up to 6 locos on the track and carriage lighting. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NoggintheNog Posted October 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2014 Less is more! Superb documentation, bombproof build and reliability, handset small enough to be operated single handed, with cup of tea or shunter's pole in the other paw. Despite the wide adoption of Lenz kit you don't see much on line comment about problems with it. That's because it works exactly as it says in the manual, which is a pretty vital attribute in what is a 'black box' control system. Indeed. My Lenz 100 is maybe 8 years old now, my compact 10, both work fine still and have never had a problem. And I don't think 'basic' is how I'd describe them, they are well featured. My only criticism of Lenz is the cost of the computer interface compared to most others (may not be an issue for everyone) and how slow the updates have become, V4.0 has been 'almost here' for years now, and there is very little progress seemingly being made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Indeed. My Lenz 100 is maybe 8 years old now, my compact 10, both work fine still and have never had a problem. And I don't think 'basic' is how I'd describe them, they are well featured. My only criticism of Lenz is the cost of the computer interface compared to most others (may not be an issue for everyone) and how slow the updates have become, V4.0 has been 'almost here' for years now, and there is very little progress seemingly being made. I would agree too. I have both the Set 100 (2 of them) and the Atlasmaster (rebadged Compact) and they have been very reliable. I also have a Powercab and a Prodigy Express, but the Lenz is my go-to controller. In the defense of the Powercab, the Lenz system is a biggish step up from it, but it is still a capable system and we use NCE on our club layout. Anything is a step up from the Prodigy Express (except, perhaps, the original Prodigy system I got, for free, for its power supply). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlyduck Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 It used to be the same when it came to DC controllers as to which was the best,n what did what.Me im glad i went DCC just wire it up n away you go.No need for dead sections n all the wiring that entails David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted October 31, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2014 wait one! Come to the NEC where you can try 7 (or eight) dcc systems as part of the DCC area! And there is no push towards any particular system. Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusDe Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Having had a play with various DCC systems at a few shows over the last few years my mouse has hovered over the click to buy button for a NCE Powercab a few times, as it was the system that appealed the most. One thing holding me back from making the DCC jump was a) without a layout it's not urgent and b) eventually I'd want to go the whole PC/Tablet operation route. I know you can get a JMRI usb module for the NCE system, and was wondering how well such a set up meets folks expectations? This question was prompted by a new feature in latest AnyRail update supporting file export to JMRI. Angus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Hi, I think most of us would agree that once you get the 'toy' systems out of the way, that the choice of DCC controller is a very personal matter as to how you like the 'feel' and operation of the units. The leading brands are all worthwhile looking into before making a final choice. Personally I started with a Digitrax DCS50 / Zephyr as having tried several others on several friends layouts I felt I prefered the Zephyr. I've now had that unit in use for almost 8 years without any problems at all. I now have in addition the newer DCS 51 Zephyr Extra and an (as yet unused) 'Super Empire Builder Extra'. What I like is the total interchangeability of items between the older and newer systems with nothing made redundant. Yes i'm glad I made the decision to go with Digitrax all those years ago but as has been said the final choice is a personal matter as all the 'proper' systems offer all the facilities you will need. What I would say is worth considering if you are going to get into DCC more deeply, such as setting your decoders up to suit individual locomotives, is the purchase of a 'Sprog' for programming. I bought one just over a year ago and wouldnt want to be without it now - it makes the detailed setting up of decoders so much easier as you see the settings on the computer screen. Not by any means essential but well worth the modest outlay. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2014 I am an old school fart, or should that be just old fart? Either way I dislike intensely the huge hand held controllers, I started with the Digitrax Zephyr and I love the layout of the controls, a proper lever for direction and brake (if required) and a nice big lever for throttle...........and if I need to "wander" a bit I have the small hand throttle which is just basic controls. I have played with the NCE and that type and just not felt right.....just my opinion of course, but then my opinion is always correct! Eventually I will upgrade to a desktop controller like the Roco or ECoS..........but for now the Zephyr controls perfectly and my old laptop and SPROG programmes easily. Sunday morning surmon finished...........lets go play trains! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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