Henley-on-Thames - GWR in the 1930's

[Neal Ball]

8 hours ago, longchap said:

I remember the 62/63 winter well, when as young boy it seemed great fun, with no school for 6 weeks, snow drifts taller than houses, helicopters landing on the big field bringing in food and mail as the village was cut off, it was a huge adventure for us nippers.

 

Of course, at the time, we didn't realize that the dead were taken away by the Westland, we were just amazed with the machine, never having seen one other than with the Airfix kit.

 

Yes, no insulation in the precast concrete Cornish Unit houses with ice on the inside of those Crittal windows, but it was completely normal to us and happy times for our young family.

 

Happy days and fond memories of childhood from a small village once served by the mighty GWR 

 

Best,

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I wasn't around in 1963, but I remember my father talking about how he and his friends made the most of the winter of 1947, when the main road out of the village down to the railway station was visible only by the tops of the telegraph poles sticking out. 1963 was less enjoyable because by then he was expected to get to work and only had his motorcycle for transport.

 

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Don't worry Neal - when i was in charge of WR freight train planning at the end of the 1980s/beginning of the '90s we still made 'em walk to/from Foxhall on the odd occasions we booked relief or pick up/f drop off a Conductor Driver there.

 

The Winter of '62/'63 was a right one - started on Boxing day in our neck of the woods although we were down at my grandparents in Challow and we came home early the day after Boxing Day because it was obviously going to get a lot worse.  Just as well we did because the road up from the main road was blocked by snow a couple of days later and remained more or less blocked for over a month although aftera couple of weeks a farm tractor could get through if things went well.  A pal and I always used to visit Swindon works on the Sunday after Christmas and it tipped down with more snow on the Saturday night so we had a job getting to the station but we needn't have bothered because the bubble car had got stuck in a snowdrift between Twyford and Wargrave and the branch remained closed all day.  I was one of the few who got to school on time on reopening day for the new term and several of us were sent round to count how many were in then a decision was made to stay closed for another week so we went home.

 

Railway wise that winter was bad in numerous places but the real trouble was that it lasted so long.  The worst I've ever seen on the railway was in the West Country in 1978 when I was Area Manger at Taunton.  We had drifts up to 16 feet deep in the countryside between Taunton and Whiteball, the snow on the Down Main at the west end of Taunton platforms was level with my nose when i was standing at rail level - it had drifted between the platforms and where it hadn't drifted it was above knee high - almost thigh deep - and in places it was up to the eaves of the station building on the  outside of the Down side buildings.  The signalman at Whiteball lived about 20-25 minutes walk from the 'box but decided that because of the weather he would start early on the Monday morning to get the stove lit and the 'box warmed up.  in the event it took him the best part of 3 hours to get there and when he arrived all the signals were frozen off so I told him to go home and warm up.  For several days the only things moving in or b near taunton were trains 9just a double operable), helicopters, while the only things allowed in the town centre were snow clearance machines and military tracked vehicles.  By the Friday most of the snow had melted and the Somerset Levels were gently flooding.

 

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I was born in the winter of 62-63 and my Dad often told the story of how he had to battle through the snowdrifts in his little car to get to the Radcliffe hospital to pick me and Mum up and bring us home.

 

I can imagine, now, how scary and stressful that milepost event must have been in Dad's life - but inevitably in later years we got used to the story and didn't think much of it.
 

 

9 minutes ago, figworthy said:

 

My flat had a Crittal window in the kitchen, and that froze up on a regular basis.  I moved out of there just under 21 years ago.

 

Dad use to tell the tale of getting the bus to school in 1947, if he was upstairs, he could see over the snow.  In 63, he was commuting to Hull.  If Neville Hill depot had kept the DMUs running overnight, the service would be a DMU, otherwise it was steam hauled.

 

Adrian

Fascinating stories guys thank you. I suppose the only thing that has changed over the year is now we have better forecasting and an ability to cope with the weather.

 

I don’t recall school being closed due to the weather, but perhaps I just don’t remember.

 

My first car was a Ford Anglia and during the winter towards the end of the 70’s I remember driving to work in Hounslow, by the time I arrived the heater hadn’t warmed up and I’d barely pushed the choke in!

 

Different times.

 

Back to modelling tomorrow and I’m hoping to have a look at the H57 Restaurant carriage

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The Winter of '62/'63 was a right one - started on Boxing day in our neck of the woods although we were down at my grandparents in Challow

It started to snow on Boxing Day evening in North London.

[Siberian Snooper]

It started to snow in the afternoon on Boxing Day, in Horsham. After the first week of school we were allowed to wear long trousers, until half-term and it was nearly Easter before the last snow melted.

 

 

 

 

[Neal Ball]

There’s been talk in the last few days about Pannier Tanks.

 

It started on @Graham T Chuffnel Regis and has now spread to @john dew at Granby, with quite a few people joining the conversation.

 

The conversation has got round to the fact that we need / desire a new Pannier tank loco to modern standards, not a reissue of the current moulds.

 

Obviously if we want to suggest products to Rapido or Accurascale, that’s easy to do on here. But I don’t recall anyone from Bachmann being here.

 

In the past, I have suggested a new loco whilst in the members stand at Ally Pally (much rolling of eyes) and also via the members club. (Thank you)
 

A few years ago, they announced a sound fitted Pannier, which didn’t appear. When I queried this at the Mid-Hants / Bachmann members day, I was told that the moulds were life expired. With the additional comment that “I hope a new one is produced as we can lay claim to it being one of our first locos” Since when it’s all gone very quiet.

 

Any Bachmann staff online at RMWeb? Or do we need to coordinate a set of emails going in at the same time to them?

[MrWolf]

It may seem to the casual viewer that the humble pannier isn't exactly an exciting prospect for an all new model, but the fact is that there's not really anything much available and a new version of the old Mainline / Replica / Bachmann 57xx would sell very well.

I have examples of the first and last, varying in age between around 20-35 years of age and I suspect that mechanically they're all on borrowed time.

Judging by how well these venerable old bangers sell on eBay, despite their known limitations (not to mention that people are asking the price of a runner for body shells) I think that something more than a limited edition run is called for.

[longchap]

Sign me up to the polite petition. If we get 10,000 votes, it has to be debated in Parliament, then the manufactures will have to take notice. Hmm, we should lobby model railway MPs!

 

Seriously though, I am fully behind any attempt to get us some more up to date Panniers.

 

Best,

 

Bill

 

Newton Regis, GWR, 1920s and 30s, 4mm, DCC

Edited December 29, 2021 by longchap

[Harlequin]

I'm all for a modern Pannier Tank, I've said so before on this forum. I think they'd sell like hotcakes!

 

I think we need to be specific about the class, though. We've had 1366, 16xx, 15xx, 64xx and 94xx classes recently so Pannier tanks have not been completely ignored!

 

I guess we're really thinking about 57xx / 8750 but remember most of the older Saddle tanks became Panniers and there are lots of subtly different classes of Panniers because of that process - many with outside frames.

 

What about tooling up to actually make some Saddle tank variants sharing the same chassis and many other parts with the Panniers?

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Harlequin

[longchap]

On 29/12/2021 at 14:05, Harlequin said:

I'm all for a modern Pannier Tank, I've said so before on this forum. I think they'd sell like hotcakes!

 

I think we need to be specific about the class, though. We've had 1366, 16xx, 15xx, 64xx and 94xx classes recently so Pannier tanks have not been completely ignored!

 

I guess we're really thinking about 57xx, 67xx, 77xx, 87xx but remember most of the older Saddle tanks became Panniers and there are lots subtly different classes of Panniers because of that process - many with outside frames.

 

What about tooling up to actually make some Saddle tank variants sharing the same chassis and many other parts with the Panniers?

 

 

A thoughtful response Phil, which I much appreciate. I like the thought of a latter panniered saddle tank, although I suspect the manufacturers will steer clear of the less popular outside frames, so perhaps a 27xx may get in the frame, as my abused part built ebay purchase is missing many parts!

 

Looking forward to see how well this tangent of Henley on Thames develops.

 

Best,

 

Bill

Edited January 6, 2022 by longchap

[The Stationmaster]

Thoughts about such an idea as a new 57XX/8750 are not new and a sooper sooper detail version is in my view what is really needed and would be the best thing to replace the Bachmann version as that isn't too bad considering its age.  I'll say no more but a bit of lobbying in 'a suitable place' as far as attention to detail and performance is concerned etc might be a useful idea    

 

Surely I don't have to guide you all to 'the relevant place' and its particularly suitable thread for such lobbying requests?

[CoombeTown]

I completely agree that a new 57xx/8750 is very much needed. Definitely following the Rapido 16xx model with plenty of die-cast involved for decent traction.

 

I think part of the push required is a vote with feel. I for one am not buying any 57xx/8750 beyond my current one until it has seen a decent retool. 

[MrWolf]

You mean that it's time to have the top feed as a separate ( and easily detachable!! ) moulding?

 

And perhaps finally lose the fried egg from atop the dome? 

[Coach bogie]

The challenge with a new 57xx is flooding the market with the older versions. For me, a 2021 pannier would be the answer. Bachmann already have the chassis with the 64xx (for those who are not aware the prototype 54xx was a rebuilt 2021), it just needs smaller driving wheel. The development costs can be concentrated on the body. Open/closed cab, even a saddle tank version. 110 out of 140 built, lasted to BR days, many of which were overhauled at Derby, not Swindon, and were to be seen making their way to and from Derbyshire, giving appeal to other region modellers.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[MrWolf]

Possibly, but there's not that many as new survivors of the old models out there I suspect and their foibles / downright unreliability are well known and documented. I doubt that Bachmann were too worried when they released their 45XX that they would lose potential buyers to a flood of secondhand Lima prairies, or Hornby with the 61XX against the old Airfix clunker. 

Admittedly, there is a market for older models, but that is often amongst those of us (myself included) can't really justify or afford the thick end of £200 for a new model, or people who wish to modify them without risking trashing a new model.

 

A new, detailed and robust  2021 pannier though? Put me down for the first three.

 

RW

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by MrWolf
Typing with hind paws again...

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

The challenge with a new 57xx is flooding the market with the older versions. For me, a 2021 pannier would be the answer. Bachmann already have the chassis with the 64xx (for those who are not aware the prototype 54xx was a rebuilt 2021), it just needs smaller driving wheel. The development costs can be concentrated on the body. Open/closed cab, even a saddle tank version. 110 out of 140 built, lasted to BR days, many of which were overhauled at Derby, not Swindon, and were to be seen making their way to and from Derbyshire, giving appeal to other region modellers.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Don't worry Mike, as soon as I build my NuCast kit someone will produce one RTR.

[TrevorP1]

34 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Don't worry Mike, as soon as I build my NuCast kit someone will produce one RTR.

 

Yep, just like Hornby are about to announce a K40 or K42!  

[gwrrob]

2 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

 

Yep, just like Hornby are about to announce a K40 or K42!  

 

I told you to keep that to yourself.

[TrevorP1]

2 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

I told you to keep that to yourself.

But it might be a K38 Ocean Mail van to go with the new Saint  

[Neal Ball]

Ah thats interesting then - i only threw it out there for the afternoon; pop off to the pub quiz and we have loads of responses.

 

Thank you guys.

 

Whilst we have established we would like a pre-war Pannier / no top feed / other options such as saddle tanks... we haven't decided how to approach Bachmann....

 

Although there was one suggestion that we approach someone else... i take it you meant Accurascale Mike...

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Ah thats interesting then - i only threw it out there for the afternoon; pop off to the pub quiz and we have loads of responses.

 

Thank you guys.

 

Whilst we have established we would like a pre-war Pannier / no top feed / other options such as saddle tanks... we haven't decided how to approach Bachmann....

 

Although there was one suggestion that we approach someone else... i take it you meant Accurascale Mike...

You can make what you like of my suggestion Neal although I'm sure that concern are very busy with all sorts of things so it might take a while but it you like the 'Manor' (who doesn't?)  a pannier to that sort of standard would seem to be a rather spiffing idea.

[Neal Ball]

Setting the Pannier tanks aside for a moment….

 

It’s Carriage day at Henley on Thames:

 

In the shape of the H57 1st and 3rd class Restaurant carriage.

 

As I write this, everything has been stripped from the donor carriage, including all the raised details, door handles / hinges etc. all the roof she’ll vents have been taken off, although they have been set aside, I doubt I will use them.

 

This was the workbench first thing this morning:

 

Across the 3 volumes of GWR carriage books by Russell there are only 3 photos:

 

 

There is a third battery box shown, which is clearer in this photo, after the conversion to Propane. This battery box is not shown on the Comet drawings 

 

 

In the Harris book, there is one photo, showing only the 3rd class seating area.

 

This was the workbench as I stopped for lunch:

 

 

edit: April 2022

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Neal Ball
photos changed

[Coach bogie]

Here is the only GWR era image I have of a H57. Note the chimney cowl, removed in BR days. GA for interior layout.

 

I Look forward to seeing yours complete. I have a 30 yr old BSL that could do with a refurbish

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

 

[Neal Ball]

6 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

Here is the only GWR era image I have of a H57. Note the chimney cowl, removed in BR days. GA for interior layout.

 

I Look forward to seeing yours complete. I have a 30 yr old BSL that could do with a refurbish

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

 

Thanks very much Mike.

[The Fatadder]

While I have absolutely no need for another dining coach, seeing as I already have two more than I can actually fit in the fiddle yard, I think I am going to have to build one of those H57 just because its such an interesting looking coach, though its a shame it is a 61ft type rather than a 60.  Look forward to seeing yours come together. 

[Neal Ball]

2 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

While I have absolutely no need for another dining coach, seeing as I already have two more than I can actually fit in the fiddle yard, I think I am going to have to build one of those H57 just because its such an interesting looking coach, though its a shame it is a 61ft type rather than a 60.  Look forward to seeing yours come together. 

 

There is clearly a compromise to be had.... I need to slightly shorten the brass sides, although I don't think its by 4mm.

 

The roof still needs a bit of fettling before I can progress onto cutting the plastic sides - it also seems that the donor carriage has a slight bow upwards in the centre of the carriage... Add that to the list then!

 

I'm looking forward to building this carriage and am determined that 2022 will not see more half finished projects!

[The Fatadder]

2 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

 

There is clearly a compromise to be had.... I need to slightly shorten the brass sides, although I don't think its by 4mm.

 

The roof still needs a bit of fettling before I can progress onto cutting the plastic sides - it also seems that the donor carriage has a slight bow upwards in the centre of the carriage... Add that to the list then!

 

I'm looking forward to building this carriage and am determined that 2022 will not see more half finished projects!

Are you going for an overlay with the new sides or a complete replacement in the way Larry Goddard used to show?  I went for the latter when I did the 61ft brake third from the Mainline BCK, which got rid of the small bow along its length.  

 

The model as it comes is a scale 60ft6 (or there about) so its only 2mm or so of brass that needs removing. 

61ft Sunshine BTK side overlaying the Mainline coach body

 

The slightly trickier thing is that unlike with the BTK there is less of a large area of sheet metal at one end to remove it from (looking at Mike's drawing the ideal place to loose excess length is to the side of the double doors).  But being practical, I would probably be looking at half a mm from the door end and the rest from the third class end.  I'm not entirely sure which way I will go when I eventually tackle this one, to date I have only used Mainline/Bachmann roofs (either with shortened sides on the BCK or as a full kit.)  I do like keeping the rivet detail on the Mainline roof...