Class 800 - Updates

[Budgie]

Looks like I'm going to have to pack my most comfortable cushion when travelling in future.

[david.hill64]

Compare the IEP seats to the current GW HST option and I can see complaints from people who pay a lot of money to travel first (and even those of us who don't have to pay.................). What a farce.

[Zomboid]

I had a ride in a declassified first class GW mk3, and I wasn't convinced that it was better than standard. A bit more room, but no softness to the seat and the fabric in standard was more pleasant to sit on the leather in first.

Maybe this won't improve matters, but I an sceptical that existing first class ticket holders are getting anything worth a premium.

[bigP]

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Edited January 31, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[Joseph_Pestell]

Thanks for thse pics surfsup - very interesting.

 

I'm intrigued to know how GWR/Daft think people are supposed to get their legs in at this seat however!

post-7515-0-43931800-1482358507.jpg

 

 

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

It's only a mock-up. The real table will be cantilevered off the vehicle side as it makes cleaning so much easier.

[Fat Controller]

It's only a mock-up. The real table will be cantilevered off the vehicle side as it makes cleaning so much easier.

Seats like this have turned up in other display coaches; there was a photo in either Today's Railways  Europe or Modern Railways recently of an example where the end of the seat stub was hard up against the partition, so that the only person who could use it was a double-amputee.

[Waverley West]

Thanks for thse pics surfsup - very interesting.

 

I'm intrigued to know how GWR/Daft think people are supposed to get their legs in at this seat however!

post-7515-0-43931800-1482358507.jpg

 

 

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Nice view from the window too, or is that just a mock-up as well? 

[cheesysmith]

I keep looking at those seats and thinking " YOU VILL ZIT TO ATTENTON" in a bad nazi accent. How long before they introduce cattle class? Just little perches to rest against, no seats as such, but just think how many people you could fit in each coach.

[modfather]

It's only a mock-up. The real table will be cantilevered off the vehicle side as it makes cleaning so much easier.

Will it? Somebody ought to tell hitachi...

 

I think I know which seat this is and I think it's the angle of the photo.

[Richard E]

Isn't that seat fully 'reclined'/slid forward as well?

[Ron Ron Ron]

".....The design process took into consideration all users of the trains, including employees and passengers.  An extensive consultation process was undertaken throughout the design process which involved numerous passenger groups, representing  commuters, cyclists, wheel chair users and visually impaired travellers, to name a few."

 

“....Prototyping played a key role, with the design team and project stakeholders using rigs and mock ups throughout to explore and evaluate the compatibility of the interior design with identified passenger and staff activities. ....... Great care was taken to work with user groups to determine the optimum space to enable easy access. ...........Increasing passenger comfort was at the heart of every decision taken, with posture and length of travel time playing a significant role in the seating.

 

 

Quotes from....

http://www.dca-design.com/latest/dca-and-hitachi-win-2015-user-centred-product-design-award-class-800801-train

 

 

 

.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Ron Ron Ron

[The Stationmaster]

Interesting that the "Designed in Japan", on the side of the unit, is in bold type, but the "Built in Britain" bit is in a lighter outline-type and less clear to read.

 

Re-seats with no windows, looks like it's back to Bulleid's post-war Tavern Cars.

 

But at least they had a proper bar - the catering on these heaps of junk will no doubt also be a giant leap downwards if the quality of the seating is any guide.  looks like the road lobby is well and truly in charge at DafT and they are setting out to line the pockets of their mates in the road transport industry by delivering grotty trains that are less comfortable than BR's 1970s efforts and might well still turn out to be slower because they're also canning electrification work.  And what chance a reintroduced refreshment stop at Swindon?

 

And no - I haven't travelled on one but Roger Ford has clearly seen the interior and his comments, as a professional railway engineer, experienced rail traveller, and truly expert commentator are good enough for me.  These trains hardly appear to be suitable fora  1 hour journey let alone 4 hours and quite honestly contemporary high quality road coaches offer better quality for passengers.  What a shambles; what a future for the railway industry - ruined by a pack of idiot pea-brained (un)Civil Servants who clearly have't got a  clue what they're at.

[The Stationmaster]

It's only a mock-up. The real table will be cantilevered off the vehicle side as it makes cleaning so much easier.

 

So in order to be strong enough to take the weight of a passenger who leans on it as they get up (it happens) it will have to be very strong.  Very strong then turns it into a death trap for injury in the event of heavy deceleration/collision - really cleverly thought through.  More DafT stupidity.

[The Stationmaster]

 

 

Quotes from....

http://www.dca-design.com/latest/dca-and-hitachi-win-2015-user-centred-product-design-award-class-800801-train

 

 

 

.

So are there two very different interior fits in terms of seating I wonder?

[cornish trains jez]

Why are they actually replacing HST's anyway??? Do they really need replacing??

[The Stationmaster]

Why are they actually replacing HST's anyway??? Do they really need replacing??

 

Definitely showing their age I think.  The interiors are onbviously benefitting from refits and some of the mechanical fit has obviously been dealt with.  But many of the trailer roofs have patches suggesting corrosion troubles and according to my backside the ride quality has definitely declined (although poorer track standards probably play a part in that as well).

 

But overall they can still deliver some top rate performances and it's not unusual to see Down trains arrive in Reading as quickly as they did in their early days - assuming punctual departures from Padd 23 minutes start to stop is not unusual and even 22 minutes is occasional.  Regrettably though I think we're going to see them as having been the pinnacle of British passenger train design in the diesel/electric age and it increasingly looks as if the latest trains are taking us back to a distant past in terms of onboard  passenger facilities and comfort - or lack thereof.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Probably mentioned elsewhere, but are the 800s limited to 100mph on the diesel? Are there any stretches between Thingley and BTM that HSTs currently achieve 125mph?

 

Just wondering.

[Fat Controller]

Why are they actually replacing HST's anyway??? Do they really need replacing??

They need to have retention tank toilets, which are compliant with Disabled Access legislation, and the bodies are suffering with corrosion (especially around toilets). The doors really need to be power-operated as well.

[cornish trains jez]

I bet the driver seats are more comfortable!

[Steadfast]

Probably mentioned elsewhere, but are the 800s limited to 100mph on the diesel? Are there any stretches between Thingley and BTM that HSTs currently achieve 125mph?

 

Just wondering.

 

The sectional appendix, here shows 125 in the down direction until just west of Middle Hill Tunnel, dropping to 100 there on the start of the approach to Bath. So Thingley to Middle Hill will see the Hitachi devices losing time over approximately 6 miles. If I've worked it out right that's about 2 1/2 minutes time loss

*page 71, Western Route Sectional Appendix

 

Jo

[royaloak]

They need to have retention tank toilets, which are compliant with Disabled Access legislation, and the bodies are suffering with corrosion (especially around toilets). The doors really need to be power-operated as well.

All of which will be addressed when they are converted for further use with GWR and ScotRail in 2+4 and 2+5 formations.

If the coaches are so bad why are the majority being retained?

 

A lot of the coaches with patches on the roofs were formerly 402xx and 407xx series Buffet coaches which were converted to Standard class coaches in the 425xx series.

Most of the GWR coaches have been refurbished (they have blue roofs instead of black) and most of the corrosion issues were dealt with then.

[Zomboid]

They still won't go on forever. If they cancelled the IEP project today, HSTs will still be replaced at some stage.

[surfsup]

Just for completeness, here are a few pictures of the interiors of the FGW 180s and GWR First Class HST vehicles. You've never had it soo good comes to mind for the FC Passengers, who are soon to go down from the large and comfortable seats to these Fansia's.

 

Ultimately I still feel that it's a shame the 180 came from Alstom's troubled period. As a HST replacement, they do the job fine. Just move the FC into a driving car, fit a kitchen and retain the small buffet counter. Alstom had even offered a bigger, duel powered (and electric) and more modern version of the Coradia as an alternative to the IEP - First Group were reported to have shown interest in it as well.

[jjb1970]

Seats do seem to be the weak link on modern trains. I like firm seating, but it has to be supportive. Unfortunately many modern train seats are firm but do not offer much in the way of support.

[russ p]

The 180s and the 175s always seem like a very cheaply built mk3 with lots of creaks and rattles from inferior plastic trim