Class 800 - Updates

[Ken.W]

Passing Doncaster Carr yesterday, several 800s stood outside, mostly GWR Green, one VTEC....

and one white with what appeared to be GW Green doors and window surround panel

[royaloak]

I suspect that in many cases the number of passengers that would travel using the wayside stations wouldn't bring in enough money to make up for maintaining the stations, never mind the loss of some through passengers because the journey time would be longer.

It depends how you define wayside station, a small station serving a hamlet of 50 houses and nothing else then no it wont, but some wayside stations have a large catchment area of people driving to them instead of the 'main' station because the roads might be better or parking cheaper, so they can have passenger numbers far in excess of the immediate catchment area.

 

For me it is these (or genuine Parkway stations) that need to be encouraged so they remove road traffic trying to get into the mainline (City) stations, most commuters want to live in the Countryside but work in the big Cities, giving them the option of driving to a small wayside station (eg Tiverton Parkway) instead of having to drive and park in (for example) Taunton to catch the train from there.

Edited February 27, 2018 by royaloak

[dibber25]

Without wishing to search back through 136 pages can someone tell me if I'm correct in assuming that the blanked out three window section in one driving car is the 'crew accommodation' - Guard/conductor, refreshment trolley? Is there a shop or buffet counter in there? Bicycle storage? The Hornby model has a humungous motor and flywheels in that area and I'd just like to know what's missing. With the weather like it is, I guess it'll be a week or two before I can get down south to go look at one. (CJL)

[Peter Kazmierczak]

To ward off any complaints from customers about the forthcoming Class 800s, VTEC have decided to slightly re-configure the passenger accommodation on these units.

 

Part of a new unit was on display at King's Cross earlier this month.....

 

[royaloak]

Without wishing to search back through 136 pages can someone tell me if I'm correct in assuming that the blanked out three window section in one driving car is the 'crew accommodation' - Guard/conductor, refreshment trolley? Is there a shop or buffet counter in there? Bicycle storage? The Hornby model has a humungous motor and flywheels in that area and I'd just like to know what's missing. With the weather like it is, I guess it'll be a week or two before I can get down south to go look at one. (CJL)

It's the food prep area for 1st class, there is nothing for Standard class who will be served from a trolley ala Cross Country style.

 

There are storage locations in the other coaches for bikes, luggage and refreshment trolleys.

[The Stationmaster]

Without wishing to search back through 136 pages can someone tell me if I'm correct in assuming that the blanked out three window section in one driving car is the 'crew accommodation' - Guard/conductor, refreshment trolley? Is there a shop or buffet counter in there? Bicycle storage? The Hornby model has a humungous motor and flywheels in that area and I'd just like to know what's missing. With the weather like it is, I guess it'll be a week or two before I can get down south to go look at one. (CJL)

 

Here's a copy of a PDF file from GWR (click on the image to enlarge)

 

Edited February 28, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Very useful diagram Mike.

 

With the numbers 99 and 00 above the (single) cycle symbol, does that mean there's only the capacity for two bicycles per 5-car unit?

[Coryton]

Very useful diagram Mike.

 

With the numbers 99 and 00 above the (single) cycle symbol, does that mean there's only the capacity for two bicycles per 5-car unit?

 

If I remember correctly, this and the area in the coach D vestibule shown as a luggage area are both configurable as either cycle spaces or luggage.

 

So in principle there could be four cycles per train.

 

(The "cubpoard" across the corridor from the cycle space is trolley storage, I think, and all the other unmarked ones are equipment "cabinets".)

 

That diagram shows just how much space is taken up by the disabled toilets. I was thinking they could have left the standard one off and let passengers who require a disabled loo travel in first class for a standard fare...then I remembered that they do - there isn't wheelchair space in standard.

 

Of course this means the bodies for the two end coaches are similar - and space is needed for the corridor to ramp up to the centre coaches with their higher floor height. 

[dibber25]

That's brilliant! Thanks, Mike. I've bought this model so I can review it but it has already captivated me. When the weather improves I shall try to get down to see one for real. I'm still on a learning curve, however, and every question that's answered throws up another one. I note that the diagram refers also to coaches in a 10-car train but I thought the longer version was a 9-car unit? I thought they got 10 cars by joining two 5-car units together. So is the 803 a 9-car or a 10-car?

Also, from the position of the First class and the kitchen, I assume first class passengers will get a Pullman-style at-seat hot food service from the kitchen, while the rest of us will get sandwiches off a trolley? 

From the diagram, I reckon they'll suffer the same inadequate luggage space that plagued Mk 3 and Mk 4 stock. In car D one luggage space is actually separated from the passengers, by the vestibule, making it impossible to keep an eye on your bag. First class passengers in car E have no luggage space at all unless they utilise the wheelchair spaces. I'm guessing there are luggage racks but in my experience, few people these days have bags that are small and light enough to lift above their heads. My limited experience of Pendolinos is of bags and cases everywhere, blocking aisles. Similar situation in the truly awful Mk4s. These look like they might be the same. (CJL)

[St. Simon]

That's brilliant! Thanks, Mike. I've bought this model so I can review it but it has already captivated me. When the weather improves I shall try to get down to see one for real. I'm still on a learning curve, however, and every question that's answered throws up another one. I note that the diagram refers also to coaches in a 10-car train but I thought the longer version was a 9-car unit? I thought they got 10 cars by joining two 5-car units together. So is the 803 a 9-car or a 10-car?

Also, from the position of the First class and the kitchen, I assume first class passengers will get a Pullman-style at-seat hot food service from the kitchen, while the rest of us will get sandwiches off a trolley? 

From the diagram, I reckon they'll suffer the same inadequate luggage space that plagued Mk 3 and Mk 4 stock. In car D one luggage space is actually separated from the passengers, by the vestibule, making it impossible to keep an eye on your bag. First class passengers in car E have no luggage space at all unless they utilise the wheelchair spaces. I'm guessing there are luggage racks but in my experience, few people these days have bags that are small and light enough to lift above their heads. My limited experience of Pendolinos is of bags and cases everywhere, blocking aisles. Similar situation in the truly awful Mk4s. These look like they might be the same. (CJL)

The 9-Car Class 800/3's haven't been delivered officially to GWR yet, so the 10 car formations come from coupling two 5-Car Class 800/1's together. There is no Class 803 yet.

 

You're assumption on the catering is correct.

 

Simon

[Coryton]

That's brilliant! Thanks, Mike. I've bought this model so I can review it but it has already captivated me. When the weather improves I shall try to get down to see one for real. I'm still on a learning curve, however, and every question that's answered throws up another one. I note that the diagram refers also to coaches in a 10-car train but I thought the longer version was a 9-car unit? I thought they got 10 cars by joining two 5-car units together. 

 

10 car trains are indeed 2x5 - it's just showing what the two possible letters are for each coach in a 2x5 train.

 

In car D one luggage space is actually separated from the passengers, by the vestibule, making it impossible to keep an eye on your bag. First class passengers in car E have no luggage space at all unless they utilise the wheelchair spaces. I'm guessing there are luggage racks but in my experience, few people these days have bags that are small and light enough to lift above their heads. My limited experience of Pendolinos is of bags and cases everywhere, blocking aisles. Similar situation in the truly awful Mk4s. These look like they might be the same. (CJL)

 

Yes - it intrigues me that there are incessant announcements not to leave luggage unattended, then they put luggage racks tucked out of the way like that.

 

As for overhead luggage racks, in my experience they generally get plenty of use especially when they are roomy enough - and the ones on the 800 give a very decent amount of space for luggage. There still probably isn't enough luggage space overall, though.

[Ken.W]

From the diagram, I reckon they'll suffer the same inadequate luggage space that plagued Mk 3 and Mk 4 stock. ....... Similar situation in the truly awful Mk4s. These look like they might be the same. (CJL)

Except that the Mk4 sets at least have a DVT which can consume six bikes and a mountain of luggage

 

... wonder where all that lot will go

[Ron Ron Ron]

Except that the Mk4 sets at least have a DVT which can consume six bikes and a mountain of luggage

 

... wonder where all that lot will go

I'm genuinely curious.

How often and how much is that DVT luggage space used Ken?

 

How do passengers go about putting luggage in there, how is it loaded or retrieved and who's responsible for it when out of the passengers sight?

[cheesysmith]

To ward off any complaints from customers about the forthcoming Class 800s, VTEC have decided to slightly re-configure the passenger accommodation on these units.

 

Part of a new unit was on display at King's Cross earlier this month.....

 

P1120498.JPG

Bet te seats are stil better on that than the DaFT cheapest option on the 80Xs. Northern had trails of different seats for its new units, and the cheapest version was a no by everyone. But it looks like they cheapest seats have been used again.

[Gilbert]

The 9-Car Class 800/3's haven't been delivered officially to GWR yet,

But they are whizzing around the network - this was one at Keynsham on 23 February - it was scheduled to stop but did not.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Gilbert

[DY444]

Reports suggesting there have been at least three IET failures caused by the horns being clogged up with snow.  Drivers now being told to sound the horn regularly in snowy weather. 

 

Allegedly designed to cope with Dawlish sea water (we'll see!) but clearly not with snow.  Anyone got any old socks?

Edited March 1, 2018 by DY444

[Coryton]

I'm genuinely curious.

How often and how much is that DVT luggage space used Ken?

 

How do passengers go about putting luggage in there, how is it loaded or retrieved and who's responsible for it when out of the passengers sight?

 

I believe there have been occasions in the summer when some sort of checked baggage service was offered for passengers travelling from London to Edinburgh and vice versa.

 

But apart from that...

[Banger Blue]

Reports suggesting there have been at least three IET failures caused by the horns being clogged up with snow.  Drivers now being told to sound the horn regularly in snowy weather. 

 

Allegedly designed to cope with Dawlish sea water (we'll see!) but clearly not with snow.  Anyone got any old socks?

I was on 800012 (1W29 Paddington - Worcester Foregate St) on Tuesday when it failed between Oxford & Hanborough with the loss of the warning horn. It had been snowing but not to any great extent. The train went forward at 20mph to Moreton-in-Marsh where it terminated. Thankfully I was bailing at Hanborough.

 

Just as a point of interest, where the train initially rolled to a halt would have put us just shy of the old Yarnton station platforms.

[Steadfast]

That seating plan shows the first class seating numbers seem to be all over the shop. Not that it matters really as each seat has a unique number, but there's a lot of numbers skipped.

 

But they are whizzing around the network - this was one at Keynsham on 23 February - it was scheduled to stop but did not.

P1310116 comp 800 9 23.2.2018.JPG

That'll be a GBRf crewed mileage accumulation run. Interestingly, despite IEP being the project and IET being the trains, all the drivers involved in them I've spoken to refer to the trains as IEPs!

 

Where are the horns mounted? Are they behind the little grill on the grey bit below the coupler hatch?

 

Jo

[Coryton]

Interestingly, despite IEP being the project and IET being the trains, all the drivers involved in them I've spoken to refer to the trains as IEPs!

 

Does it really matter?

 

We all know what they mean, don't we?

 

Just like calling the signalling on the Cambrian ERTMS when - apparently - from a technical point of view it should be called ETCS.

 

(Edited to add missing word)

Edited March 1, 2018 by Coryton

[Steadfast]

No, doesn't worry me, but there has been some discussion previously about the correct naming

 

Jo

[Gilbert]

Presumably they will get a nickname - Can I suggest "Cucumbers" - as they are green and be bought as halves if required....

[rodent279]

Presumably they will get a nickname - Can I suggest "Cucumbers" - as they are green and be bought as halves if required....

[The Stationmaster]

The 9-Car Class 800/3's haven't been delivered officially to GWR yet, so the 10 car formations come from coupling two 5-Car Class 800/1's together. There is no Class 803 yet.

 

You're assumption on the catering is correct.

 

Simon

 

Not quite re the catering Simon.  Pullman. service dining will only be provided on the trains for which it is advertised - exactly as now on HSTs although I expect the difference might be that it will be available at all seats in 1st Class due to the relatively limited room for people to move to/from the eating area.  The rest of the time the catering in 1st is from the trolley - at times it seems to be the same one that serves the rest of the train although I would hope there's more than one if you're in Coach A and getting a bit thirsty or peckish.

[The Stationmaster]

I believe there have been occasions in the summer when some sort of checked baggage service was offered for passengers travelling from London to Edinburgh and vice versa.

 

But apart from that...

Apart from  that I wonder how they'll manage if they work a Padd - Newquay with all the surfboards trying to get themselves loaded aboard - not too difficult to use the van area on an HST but no similar space on these trains.