Class 800 - Updates

[31A]

45 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Before CDs, and then USB keys/ streaming, arrived, we used to get lots of catenary trips when lorry drivers used to throw damaged tapes out of their cabs. They used to drape themselves over the catenary, then disintegrate once one end caught the contact wire.

A few years ago (well probably more like 8 - time flies!) there was a bit of a spate of that on the Leeds North West electric routes, traced to people dumping redundant audio / VHS cassettes somewhere near the railway; the tape all got loose and blew about in the wind ending up tripping out the overheads.  For some reason I seem to recall the scrapyard at Shipley station was involved with at least one of the incidents .... 

[Ian Hargrave]

I was wondering why this morning’s Inverness-KX working is cancelled......Is this an omen of things to come ?

[31A]

1 minute ago, Ian Hargrave said:

I was wondering why this morning’s Inverness-KX working is cancelled......Is this an omen of things to come ?

 

Quite possibly yesterday's down train got to Inverness too late for the crew to have their booked rest period before taking duty for this morning's up train - yesterday's Highland Chieftain ended up 119 mins late, arriving Inverness at 2202.

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y75715/2019/07/11/advanced

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Looking ahead,the Azuma is scheduled to enter service on the Highland main line and to Aberdeen at the turn of the year in bi mode form,though current progress makes this projection doubtful.One hopes that the potential for extreme embarrassment in such remote terrain will be avoided as much as is humanly possible.This morning ‘s events bring that into sharp relief.This service is vital in so many ways.

[jim.snowdon]

14 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Pantographs do not usually break the OLE. More normally it is a defect in the OLE that breaks the pantograph, and then gets further deranged by the now broken pantograph.

More will come to light in due course, but the pantograph in the picture looks to have suffered the classic symptoms of having run into something hanging below the contact wire, and the OLE above it is still under tension.

 

Jim

It would appear that the pantograph may have struck something on the contact wire, and then brought down a headspan as a consequence, as all four lines were affected at the same time.

 

Jim

[jamie92208]

That's the problem with headspans.   I believe that there is an ongoing programme to replace the headspans by fitting gantries to the existing uprights to stop this happening.

 

Jamie

[jim.snowdon]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

That's the problem with headspans.   I believe that there is an ongoing programme to replace the headspans by fitting gantries to the existing uprights to stop this happening.

 

Jamie

That's what I understand as well. Headspans have their uses, but out on the main line is not one of them, not just on this account but also because of the dynamic coupling between the contact wires of adjoining tracks and the effect that that has on pantograph performance. Different in lower speed areas such as major stations, where squeezing in fixed structures can be problematic and very long span portals impracticable.

 

Jim

[Mallard60022]

A little off topic I am afraid. I have some t#t on an LNER forum telling me that the Azumas are British built as were the 125s and 225s. I tried to explain that they are actually constructed/assembled here but the Richard Cranium told me I am wrong and got really arsy. I have already told him to read the history of the units and then to #### off, but I would like your opinions please. Are these British designed, then built as at Doncaster/Crewe or wherever, or just put together from a pack of parts from all over the place, at Newton Aycliffe with some assistance from Eastleigh and wherever? These know-alls get on my #### but I would appreciate you telling me I'm wrong if I am!!!!!!!!!!

Out of interest, are most of the Hitachi Engineers actually Japanese or are there now trained Engineers from elsewhere in the world that are actually allowed to tinker with these things? Presumably when all the Units ae in service and 'totally proven', they will belong to Agilty Trains but will be serviced by Staff working in the UK Depots, most of whom would be local to those Depots or brought in for special works? 

ECML seemed to be back up and running today; well done NR Staff who repaired the OHL.

Phil

 

[4630]

I'd just leave them to their own smugness, Phil.  You're right and you know that you are.

 

People like that really aren't worth bothering with.  Certainly not worth the time and effort composing an accurate answer to.

[iands]

7 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

A little off topic I am afraid. I have some t#t on an LNER forum telling me that the Azumas are British built as were the 125s and 225s. I tried to explain that they are actually constructed/assembled here but the Richard Cranium told me I am wrong and got really arsy. I have already told him to read the history of the units and then to #### off, but I would like your opinions please. Are these British designed, then built as at Doncaster/Crewe or wherever, or just put together from a pack of parts from all over the place, at Newton Aycliffe with some assistance from Eastleigh and wherever? These know-alls get on my #### but I would appreciate you telling me I'm wrong if I am!!!!!!!!!!

Out of interest, are most of the Hitachi Engineers actually Japanese or are there now trained Engineers from elsewhere in the world that are actually allowed to tinker with these things? Presumably when all the Units ae in service and 'totally proven', they will belong to Agilty Trains but will be serviced by Staff working in the UK Depots, most of whom would be local to those Depots or brought in for special works? 

ECML seemed to be back up and running today; well done NR Staff who repaired the OHL.

Phil

 

Hi Phil,

Your are correct. If you go back to pages 230/231on this topic you will see some photos I took when visiting the Newton Aycliffe Hitachi factory in late May. The body shells and bogies (and may be a few other bits and pieces) are shipped in (literally) to the UK and then via road transport from the docks to the Hitachi factory. The units are then "assembled" in the factory, moving around different installation sections via the traversers.

The Azumas are designed by Hitachi (presumably in Japan), but at the time of our visit to the factory (early evening) a lot of staff had left for the day and I didn't see any Japanese staff - not to say there aren't any there, but probably they occupy the middle/senior management roles and had finished for the day by the time we arrived. I do believe however, that with the wonders of modern technology, they have daily video conferences and the like with Hitachi HQ so the Japanese designers are effectively "on site" at some point during the day.

 

Suggest you get Richard Cranium to contact Hitachi and ask if he can visit the factory and find out for himself. Apparently, if there are a sufficient number of people wanting to visit, Hitachi will try their very best to accommodate a trip around the factory.

[Mallard60022]

12 minutes ago, 4630 said:

I'd just leave them to their own smugness, Phil.  You're right and you know that you are.

 

People like that really aren't worth bothering with.  Certainly not worth the time and effort composing an accurate answer to.

Oh, I had forgotten smugness as a word. I shall keep that in reserve just in case. I must have been guilty of being a smug arse on many occasions, however I do try to apologise if I have cocked up and am happy to accept I am not entirely correct.

Someone else posted a great pic on his thread, of two 225s during build at Crewe with a caption going something like "....when we could build our own trains and didn't have to buy them in....."; didn't add anything else but I felt the vibes!!!!!!

Thanks

P

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

A little off topic I am afraid. I have some t#t on an LNER forum telling me that the Azumas are British built as were the 125s and 225s. I tried to explain that they are actually constructed/assembled here but the Richard Cranium told me I am wrong and got really arsy. I have already told him to read the history of the units and then to #### off, but I would like your opinions please. Are these British designed, then built as at Doncaster/Crewe or wherever, or just put together from a pack of parts from all over the place, at Newton Aycliffe with some assistance from Eastleigh and wherever? These know-alls get on my #### but I would appreciate you telling me I'm wrong if I am!!!!!!!!!!

Out of interest, are most of the Hitachi Engineers actually Japanese or are there now trained Engineers from elsewhere in the world that are actually allowed to tinker with these things? Presumably when all the Units ae in service and 'totally proven', they will belong to Agilty Trains but will be serviced by Staff working in the UK Depots, most of whom would be local to those Depots or brought in for special works? 

ECML seemed to be back up and running today; well done NR Staff who repaired the OHL.

Phil

 

Just as a matter of interest there are some comments by Ian Walmsley in the new Modern Railways. Apparently a lot of skilled staff from Wabtec at Doncaster have left to work at the new Hitachi depot where Carr Loco used to be. They apparently think that a job with a company with a 27 year long contract is a good idea. This exodus is apparently one of the reasons behind the delays in getti g HST's rebuilt for Scotrail.

 

Jamie

[Zomboid]

I suppose it depends what you mean by "built". Take a wagon kit, can you "build" one, or do you "assemble" it? There's a line there somewhere, but I'm not sure where.

 

And as for the design, weren't they specified down to the nut and bolt by the experts at the DfT?

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

I suppose it depends what you mean by "built". Take a wagon kit, can you "build" one, or do you "assemble" it? There's a line there somewhere, but I'm not sure where.

 

And as for the design, weren't they specified down to the nut and bolt by the experts at the DfT?

"experts?" In the same sentence as "DfT"?

 

What are the DfT expert at? There must be something, surely?

 

Answers on a postage stamp please!

[royaloak]

5 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

"experts?" In the same sentence as "DfT"?

 

What are the DfT expert at? There must be something, surely?

 

Answers on a postage stamp please!

There is something but it cannot be posted on a family friendly forum!

[royaloak]

17 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Just as a matter of interest there are some comments by Ian Walmsley in the new Modern Railways. Apparently a lot of skilled staff from Wabtec at Doncaster have left to work at the new Hitachi depot where Carr Loco used to be. They apparently think that a job with a company with a 27 year long contract is a good idea. This exodus is apparently one of the reasons behind the delays in getti g HST's rebuilt for Scotrail.

 

Jamie

We had similar down here with plenty of fitters etc leaving GWR at Bristol and Laira to join Hitachi (mostly caused by the uncertainty of whether they were going to be kept on at GWR or made redundant), several are now trying to get back to GWR because the grass isnt always greener.

Edited July 12, 2019 by royaloak

[phil-b259]

11 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

"experts?" In the same sentence as "DfT"?

 

What are the DfT expert at? There must be something, surely?

 

Answers on a postage stamp please!

 

Incompetence

 

Style over substance

 

Pseudo-science

 

Deliberately engineering disputes with the trade unions solely for party political reasons

 

 

[Fat Controller]

19 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

 

 

Deliberately engineering disputes with the trade unions solely for party political reasons

 

 

This seems to have been the one area of engineering they are good at.

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

I suppose it depends what you mean by "built". Take a wagon kit, can you "build" one, or do you "assemble" it? There's a line there somewhere, but I'm not sure where.

 

And as for the design, weren't they specified down to the nut and bolt by the experts at the DfT?

What the bloke was saying was that the Zoomers were actually British built and not concerning Japan. I believe he then actually looked some stuff up as his next post was along the linres of they are ut together from parts from all over Europe and showed me by posting a diagram of an 800 like an Airfix set of Instructions.

What I was saying was that they were mostly assembled here from stuff built elsewhere. Semantics I know but it was a follow on from people mentioning the 125s and 225s that were actually built/assembled here from parts made (mainly) here. He would not retract or acknowledge the fact that his calling me wrong for saying they were not actually conceived and then made here was in fact him being wrong. He was just a know all arse & instead of just saying he hadn't realised the actual situation with the 800s but I was being fussy in my description (could have accepted that without a problem); some people just can't be wrong and many of them reside on RMW.

"...….what you mean by "built". Take a wagon kit, can you "build" one, or do you "assemble" it?"      My take on this is that I would build from scratch, assembling the parts afterwards or as I went along. However I would assemble a kit where the parts were all provided for me. I don't care if that is wrong because I am also always right

 

[Mallard60022]

Back to Zoomers. There are fewer workings through Retford at the moment and I have not seen a 5 Car Set for ages. Presumably they appeared only to give Crews route knowledge south of York and Donny for when diversions occur.

Just for interest, I have not yet been arsed to get up to see the Leeds to the X Zoomers that actually call at Retford in the early morning. I think there is one stopping on the way back in the afternoon but I am usually asleep then as well.

Also, has anyone 'cleared' their 800s yet?

ATB

P

[Ken.W]

On 10/07/2019 at 18:31, Siberian Snooper said:

At least the zoomers on the GW have enough diesel engines to carry on if the knitting gets in a tangle,  whereas your LNER zoomers can only limp to the next station when it goes pear shaped, so perhaps the cockup with getting the knitting up is a blessing in disguise.

 

Erm, no, all the LNER zoomers in service so far are full bi-modes, non of the 'electric' (1 engine only) 801 sets are in service.

 

And, no matter what engines it has, that zoomer will not be going anywhere in that state!

The classic effect of a de-wirement, which I've commented previously that I encountered on both such occasions I've attended to a 91 with Thunderbird -  the remains of the pan are left out of gauge and require removal. Moving that anywhere will bring down the rest of the wires!

[Richard E]

20 minutes ago, Ken.W said:

The classic effect of a de-wirement, which I've commented previously that I encountered on both such occasions I've attended to a 91 with Thunderbird -  the remains of the pan are left out of gauge and require removal. Moving that anywhere will bring down the rest of the wires!

 

And you can not clear the pan until the wires that are wrapped around it are removed. so net impact is that a dewired set will still have to wait until the tecchies turn up to remove all the debris and get the thing in a fit state to move. In that respect it doesn't matter if it is a bi-mode, get you home diesel or full electric, there will still be delays.

[jim.snowdon]

1 hour ago, Richard E said:

 

And you can not clear the pan until the wires that are wrapped around it are removed. so net impact is that a dewired set will still have to wait until the tecchies turn up to remove all the debris and get the thing in a fit state to move. In that respect it doesn't matter if it is a bi-mode, get you home diesel or full electric, there will still be delays.

And even more delay if they find that they haven't got the right harness bits for working on top of an 800.

 

Jim

[Ken.W]

12 hours ago, Richard E said:

 

And you can not clear the pan until the wires that are wrapped around it are removed. so net impact is that a dewired set will still have to wait until the tecchies turn up to remove all the debris and get the thing in a fit state to move. In that respect it doesn't matter if it is a bi-mode, get you home diesel or full electric, there will still be delays.

 

And, when the tecchies have turned up they won't be removing anything at all until an OHL gang have also turned up to physically isolate, using the post-mounted switches you can see in various locations, and also, to earth, the sub-section concerned at the location. A simple Emergency Switch Off from the Electrical Control Room would cut power to too many other trains in the area and is insufficient anyway, only allowing the OHLE to be approached but NOT touched.

In one of the incidents I referred to above, although the fitters arrived the same time as me, on another Thunderbird arriving simultaneously on the opposite line, we still had a considerable delay for the OHL isolation before they were allowed anywhere near the roof.

[Mallard60022]

19 hours ago, Ken.W said:

 

Erm, no, all the LNER zoomers in service so far are full bi-modes, non of the 'electric' (1 engine only) 801 sets are in service.

 

And, no matter what engines it has, that zoomer will not be going anywhere in that state!

The classic effect of a de-wirement, which I've commented previously that I encountered on both such occasions I've attended to a 91 with Thunderbird -  the remains of the pan are left out of gauge and require removal. Moving that anywhere will bring down the rest of the wires!

That's weird as yesterday I was reading a book about new trains including thr 800s and it suggested that all the ECML 9 Car sets only have a 'get you a fewmiles diesel engine. However I though it was what you state