Class 800 - Updates

[surfsup]

12 hours ago, Jonboy said:

Given the situations that occur with suicides and level crossing incidents it seems bizarre the emergency services cannot rely on the driver to isolate the unit and confirm safe without a phone call to tell them how to do it, or is that just me being naive with no experience of these situations?

 

I can confirm from my personal experiences that these units are something of a pain for us now when there is an incident involving them. As mentioned above, we now have to confirm with Hitachi, usually this involves having to wait for a Hitachi engineer to come out to the train involved, that it is safe to go near or underneath said unit. This somewhat puts further pressure upon us - given that we are already conscious of the time when such an incident (eg fatality) occurs - as long as the incident is declared non suspect, then the focus can switch to recovery and clear up and a partial or full re-opening of the line. Add in time taken waiting for a Hitachi engineer to come out to the site, and this extends the length of closure - something we're not exactly keen on, nor are the TOCs or NR.  

 

5 hours ago, royaloak said:

Hitachi do have their own ream of TRIs riding around fixing faults on these trains.

 

The way the contract (and training) is written train crew are not allowed to touch pretty much anything without direct instruction from Hitachi, like it or not it is what it is!

 

From a conversation I have with a guard yesterday, this highlights how stupid this contract has been set up. He was not overly impressed with the build quality of the 800 fleet - having mentioned various faults that he has come across. Unfortunately, some are simply fixes that the train crew would have previously been allowed to touch & fix. This isn't the case with the Hitachi contract however - who either have to send one of their engineers to fix it, or log it into an already heavily growing queue. Indeed one fault he was showing me yesterday was the quality of fixing to the CDL Panel cover - of which he's already had some fall off, while this one was surviving on 1 screw.

 

Unfortunately this all adds to why I'm not very impressed with this fleet. Living firmly in an area served by Siemens Desiros, even the roughest of hard to beat for quality 450s is still preferable. Perhaps if the maintenance contact had been set up in a similar fashion to the SWT / LM / TPE Desiro fleets, with some of the quality of their materials, things may have been a better outcome. We shall see.   

[Mallard60022]

Accidental trip on the 14.06 Zoomer to Newark from the X today due to the usual Cancellation of the 13.48 Hull Trains service. This train also absorbed many of the rest of the intended HT passengers from said cancelled train, but they all seemed to have wanted to pile into two coaches in the middle for some weird reason.

SWMBO, on her first Zoomer trip because of this, asked what she was supposed to notice that was different to other stuff she travels on apart from it being bright and shiny? I suggested the acceleration was pretty impressive and good leg room! She noticed that the seats were a bit rigid but liked the luggage racks which are see through and quite low for shorter persons.

Turned out to be Bustitution at Newark for Retford and Donny. Rumour had it that there was a coach coming from Hull to Newark to collect stragglers, or maybe even the remaining souls bound for stations beyond Donny? I can't see why they weren't all plonked on Donny stop services apart from loaded Edinburgh, as there were quite a few including the 14.03 Leeds Zoomer that was not that loaded. HT could have done with a real person as support at the X rather than the LNER Staff (already really busy) having to rely on phone/computer contact. However they seemed to cope admirably well.

Was about 90 minutes late home in the end but not a real discomfort and well done to the involved staff that had to sort it.....mind you I think I helped a bit at the LNER Info stand at the Cross by suggesting the 14.06 for Grantham and Retford passengers (Taxis from Newark was mooted at that moment) would be fairly lightly loaded (which it would have been had it not been for many of the the HT mob then using it! Even then I'd say more than half the LNER reserved seats in our coach were not even taken up. 

Another part of our journey today was on a Javelin Unit from Broadstairs to St. Pancras via Ramsgate, Canterbury West & Ashford; the fast route. Was impressed with the Javelin and it don't half shift on the HS1 section to Ebbsfleet. More comfortable that a Zoomer by the way, but not much more.

Such fun.

Phil

P.S. Was so engaged in trying to find out what to do, being clever (so I thought) & going to Platform 0 where the Newark service was supposed to be, then seeing it was now going from P6 (thanks RTT and I Phone), that I didn't note any Unit Numbers. Then I dived on the Leeds Zoomer at Platform 7 as I was rushing and then realising it was the Leeds and our Zoomer was on P6 (as I had just read on my phone), getting off the Leeds blah, blah and feeling a real kn0b for not being in control. Doh, and I'm supposed to know something about what trains are all about! Didn't even calculate which coach would be best for the footbridge at Newark so we could be out first to bag a Taxi! (Didn't matter ….. see above re Bus)

[rodent279]

Ah, the joys of train travel eh?

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, rodent279 said:

Ah, the joys of train travel eh?

Rather this than being on the sodding M20 or whatever it is/M25/M11/A14/A1 for half my life!!!!! I just hate driving that far these days.

It was actually quite good fun but I was shocked at how dimwitted I seem to be becoming if things go a bit wonky. Going to have to get a grip.

Anyway, back to the 800s. KIng's Cross is becoming infested with them now and they seem to be attracting the attention of the spotting brigade. 

Also, I am fairly sure that most of the 'delayed' passengers didn't even notice what sort of train they were on. It was another train, it worked and it was going somewhere near where they wanted to be.

Also I am a big fan of Hull Trains but my recent experiences have been less than 'super' and I see that they have had large numbers of cancellations recently. Our HT service to the Cross on Friday morning last was an EX GW HST with a green livery Buffet Car in the otherwise First style GW Blue Livery set. Great I thought, HST and a proper job Buffet. However the seat booking was not amusing in that we were in Coach B, which is our coach of choice on a 180, but the seat numbers on the luggage racks had been taped over really untidily with bits of black electrician's tape. Eventually we found 'our' reserved seats (1 & 2 Facing), in a carded up section* at the 'wrong end numerically' in the coach. The actual HST blacked out seats numbered 1 and 2 back to travel direction were occupied and the train was very crowded when we piled in and so we and many others joining at Retford were all bundling about the gangway at what we thought was the correct end number wise, wondering WTF was going on and where were the seats booked, until we spotted some *reservation cards at the other end, so went to investigate and there they were, all in a block; slightly weird.

When reading the nice shiny HT booklet about their pending use of Zoomers etc and hired in HSTs and jolly travel opportunities, I was amused to see that the 2 HST sets brought in had been 'prepared and brought up to standard' for service when they arrived, including testing/training etc. and before being used by the public!  Bits of sticky tape renumbering seat system eh? Well, at least this HST didn't fall to bits or catch fire; early arrival at the X as well. Classic.

 

Incidentally, now living in a fairly typical local town for local people, where few people 'look different', sitting between the X and St Pancras and watching the amazing variety of human life moving around in the big City is just wonderful, oh and M & S in St Pancs have some really decent GF, Egg and Cress Sandwiches. Incidentally, the bogs in St P are free, whereas the bogs on the 'Veranda' at the Cross are pay to enter; but I am sure you all knew this.

Next planned 800 outing for me is the first service from The X/Retford to York in a few weeks time and return.

T. Ravel Buff

Edited July 1, 2019 by Mallard60022
idiot punctuation/possible false news?

[159220]

On 30/06/2019 at 19:23, jools1959 said:

I was wondering when the Class 800/2’s and 801(both 5 and 9 car sets) will start entering service?

 

The 801/1s (5-car) "should' see entry into service next month, with four units on KingsX-Leeds contained services. This releases two 800/1s for York and Edinburgh services from "1st August".

 

The 800/2s "should" (subject to approvals) be in service from September (inc. Lincoln extensions from Newark), releasing further 800/1s for the NE and Scotland.

[Zomboid]

16 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Incidentally, the bogs in St P are free, whereas the bogs on the 'Veranda' at the Cross are pay to enter; but I am sure you all knew this.

You sure? NR abolished fees for toilets at managed stations earlier in the year. KX should have been included, but I've never used the bog there to know.

[Market65]

Just for the record, you have to pay to use them on Sheffield station next to the main entrance, but not on the platforms....

 

Rob.

[Mallard60022]

1 minute ago, Zomboid said:

You sure? NR abolished fees for toilets at managed stations earlier in the year. KX should have been included, but I've never used the bog there to know.

Ah, not sure as I have not used the  lofty bogs there since late last year. Thanks for that. SWMBO says the St P ones have always been free AFASKs but the upstairs ones at the X were pay to pee etc.

 

1 minute ago, Market65 said:

Just for the record, you have to pay to use them on Sheffield station next to the main entrance, but not on the platforms....

 

Rob.

We could do another thread Rob. Complete guide to Station Bogs?

P

[Market65]

I think you are right, Mallard60022. This thread is rapidly going down the pan! 

 

Rob.

[eastwestdivide]

14 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Our HT service to the Cross on Friday morning last was an EX GW HST

HT's usual 180s are having a lot of bother at the moment, and they've hired/borrowed/stolen a couple of HSTs from their sister company. Every week, each of their HSTs makes a cross-country trek* from Hull to Bristol (230-odd miles one way) for maintenance, as apparently there's "no room at the inn" for spare HSTs anywhere nearer their route like Leeds Neville Hill (60-odd miles one way). Hope they get their 80x trains before the rest of their 180s give up.

 

*Here's one today: 1100 Bristol St Philips Marsh to Hull arrive 1835 (it's booked to sit in loops for 2.5-3 hours en route)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97226/2019/07/02/advanced

[Mallard60022]

52 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

HT's usual 180s are having a lot of bother at the moment, and they've hired/borrowed/stolen a couple of HSTs from their sister company. Every week, each of their HSTs makes a cross-country trek* from Hull to Bristol (230-odd miles one way) for maintenance, as apparently there's "no room at the inn" for spare HSTs anywhere nearer their route like Leeds Neville Hill (60-odd miles one way). Hope they get their 80x trains before the rest of their 180s give up.

 

*Here's one today: 1100 Bristol St Philips Marsh to Hull arrive 1835 (it's booked to sit in loops for 2.5-3 hours en route)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97226/2019/07/02/advanced

I believe the 180s are 'serviced' at Heaton (Newcastle)? yes, HT's 180s are really falling to bits, well catching fire really, on a regular basis. I do hope they can struggle on until December and their fleet of 800s should be coming on stream.

By the way I 'waved' twice but we were going very quickly indeed the return trip  and I couldn't observe the loco's near the 'Dagenham' sidings.

ATB

Phil

[Mallard60022]

15 hours ago, Market65 said:

I think you are right, Mallard60022. This thread is rapidly going down the pan! 

 

Rob.

OP should be flushed with success then?

A. Sillyboy.

[eastwestdivide]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

I believe the 180s are 'serviced' at Heaton (Newcastle)...

Crofton (Wakefield) - two workings across between there and Hull  in the wee small hours.

Glad you enjoyed the trip.

[Mallard60022]

2 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

Crofton (Wakefield) - two workings across between there and Hull  in the wee small hours.

Glad you enjoyed the trip.

Ah that's closer and better. Few years back I was chatting to some staff and they told me about Heaton but maybe that was for serious maintenance as when they blow up etc?

Phil

[Mallard60022]

I've just realised there are no areas for wheelchair users in Standard Class in the 5 car units. That is crap IMO.

Phil

[Mallard60022]

 

I've also been looking at the LNER site and Azumas have their haters already. There is also annoyance at the poor standard of things like Air Con failure on the hottest days. I usually post the info about Hitachi Engineers being required so it is not really LNER's fault, but I do think that is a useless set up of the contract by the DFT; they don't have to come face to face with the train users!

Phil

Edited July 2, 2019 by Mallard60022

[royaloak]

18 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I've just realised there are no areas for wheelchair users in Standard Class in the 5 car units. That is crap IMO.

Phil

So a free upgrade to 1ST class for the wheelchair passenger and their companion is crap is it?

Righto then! 

[Coryton]

10 hours ago, royaloak said:

So a free upgrade to 1ST class for the wheelchair passenger and their companion is crap is it?

Righto then! 

 

Great so long as the wheelchair user is only with one person.

 

I expect quite a few people travelling in a group (e.g. families) would prefer to all be able to sit together in standard rather than being split up, albeit with two of them in first.

 

It seems quite an odd decision to me, particularly as what really takes up the space is the accessible toilet and there's one of those at both ends (and a good thing too because I believe wheelchair users aren't the only people who benefit from such facilities).

[The Stationmaster]

21 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I believe the 180s are 'serviced' at Heaton (Newcastle)? yes, HT's 180s are really falling to bits, well catching fire really, on a regular basis. I do hope they can struggle on until December and their fleet of 800s should be coming on stream.

By the way I 'waved' twice but we were going very quickly indeed the return trip  and I couldn't observe the loco's near the 'Dagenham' sidings.

ATB

Phil

The 180s were falling to bits when they were brand new so no change there.  II remember the first trip the lad and I did down to Cardiff & back not long after they finally entered service - you had to v be very careful moving through the train as bits were inclined to come off in your hand and the atrcon wasn't working in one car (on a hot day of coursre).  But all the trips I've had with them with HT have been ok, apart from occasional loose fittings

[Mallard60022]

18 hours ago, royaloak said:

So a free upgrade to 1ST class for the wheelchair passenger and their companion is crap is it?

Righto then! 

Look I said there were no spaces in Standard and I had not been told there was the option of the upgrade. Why are you such a pedant that leaps in and throws a punch without giving information?  Could you not have told me that there are spaces in First and a free upgrade would be available? So to answer your damn question, no it is nor crap it is a damn fine offer.

Phil

Edited July 3, 2019 by Mallard60022
To remove swearing.

[Mallard60022]

4 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

Great so long as the wheelchair user is only with one person.

 

I expect quite a few people travelling in a group (e.g. families) would prefer to all be able to sit together in standard rather than being split up, albeit with two of them in first.

 

It seems quite an odd decision to me, particularly as what really takes up the space is the accessible toilet and there's one of those at both ends (and a good thing too because I believe wheelchair users aren't the only people who benefit from such facilities).

Thank you Coryton. A measured response and is what I had been discussing with someone on the LNER thread. I appreciate your thinking. Upgrade is fine but not having at least a coversion space in Standard is poor design IMO. On Javelins there are these sort of spaces provided. My LNER discussion was also talking about the lack of space for (say) a buggy as even when folded they area a bulky item. Presumably the buggy could go in the 'luggage' area in the Staff part of the train? Not much use if a single parent wants to travel with (say) a toddler and a buggy babe? Maybe the person I was chatting with would choose train rather than something else or no travel if there was the option?

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The 180s were falling to bits when they were brand new so no change there.  II remember the first trip the lad and I did down to Cardiff & back not long after they finally entered service - you had to v be very careful moving through the train as bits were inclined to come off in your hand and the atrcon wasn't working in one car (on a hot day of coursre).  But all the trips I've had with them with HT have been ok, apart from occasional loose fittings

Mike, I had actually forgotten that GW had sent these 180s back when they had used them for a while. Reliability and technical issue were awful I read recently. Then Grand Central and HT got them...….. I don't use GC as they never stop at Retford (unless they die or there is an emergency), so I don't know about their reliability or breakdown situations. The majority of my HT experiences have been excellent and I really enjoy their sort of 'family' approach, however they do struggle and it must be putting people off using their services if they have several bad experinces and alternatives on the ECML are there for the taking. I like HT to the Cross as it only calls at Grantham after Retford so you know it isn't going to get 'stuffed' en route.

Take care

Phil 

[AY Mod]

22 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

All you needed to say was that the upgrade to first was available without the sarcasm. So to answer your damn question, no it is nor crap it is a damn fine offer.

 

If you report posts in which an argument is taking place Phil I am somewhat limited in what I can do if the post you are porting uses the same phraseology as the response you are reporting. Also quoting things which you then report doesn't make it any easier to edit; so I won't.

[Mallard60022]

2 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

If you report posts in which an argument is taking place Phil I am somewhat limited in what I can do if the post you are porting uses the same phraseology as the response you are reporting. Also quoting things which you then report doesn't make it any easier to edit; so I won't.

Apologies. I just find Mr Royal Oak's responses very patronising and I think he could be a little more considered in his responses and not just to me.

If he reports me then fine I can handle that.

P 

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

.....Upgrade is fine but not having at least a coversion space in Standard is poor design IMO. On Javelins there are these sort of spaces provided......

 

 

Rather than poor design, have you considered the possibility that the decision to put wheelchair spaces in First and not Standard was made for good reasons?

 

Wheelchairs take up valuable seat space. If you are going to lose seat space, where’s the best place to put them?

Overcrowded trains generally have more free space in First, in my experience.

 

Ron