Class 800 - Updates

[Coryton]

7 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Maybe reservations should be compulsory on journeys over a certain length? Maybe they should all incur a charge?

 

I expect I'm not the only person here who would see the end of "walk-up" long distance rail services in the UK as something of a move in the wrong direction. To put it mildly.

 

[jim.snowdon]

It's been many years since I travelled on DB and SNCF, but my recollection is that whilst they retained a base level walk-on service for inter-city services, the faster services (IC rather than the ordinary RE, or Regional Express) required a supplement to the base fare, and in at least some cases, mandatory reservations.

 

Jim

[Mallard60022]

5 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

I expect I'm not the only person here who would see the end of "walk-up" long distance rail services in the UK as something of a move in the wrong direction. To put it mildly.

 

I agree, however there are well known 'totally loaded in advance' services on the ECML from London to Scotland and (presumably) the other way? They are well known to the staff who will not put 'abandoned because of another services failure to run passengers' on these if at all possible. So maybe they could introduce a few really long distance trains that are actually advance booking only, especially when there are a load of other services to choose from? I think there have been trains like this in the past; was the Midland Pullman one of them? Were some ER prestige Expresses like this (Elizabethan?) I have forgotten. 

I know it is not quite the same but if a bus is full to capacity it (well the Driver) will not take on further passengers and in some cases will not stop unless there are alighting passengers. Thus waiting (walk on people) just don't get to travel on that bus if it comes along full! Long Distance Coaches can not accept  more passengers than there are seats. We accept that planes have a passenger capacity. Why not long distance trains?

The problem would be the management of boarding such trains at stops, so maybe we get back to some more limited stops services on the long runs? I have no idea really and as for the ticketing system, surely that really needs sorting into a more simple process to understand? 

My brain hurts now!

Phil

 

[phil-b259]

16 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Reserving seats on trains which are already on their way strikes me as one of the daftest ideas the privytised railway a has yet come up with.  Cross Country do it and it is a considerable disincentive to take a long journey with them as you can settle yourself in clearly unreserved seats I only to find - long before you are going to alight - that someone gets on and claims you are sitting in their reserved seat.  Fortunately it has never happened to me but I saw an example of it a while back which very nearly descended to fisticuffs.

I know they now show something about 'This seat may be reserved during the journey' but that's not much help to an old lady travelling from York to Bournemouth who didn't  reserve a seat in advance and isn't aware that they play this trick on unsuspecting irregular travellers.

 

Reserving seats on trains that have comenceded their journey only works providing said train operates a mandatory seat reservation policy (i.e. French TGV services). That way your little old lady has nothing to fear as she will always have a reserved seat while a businessman joining mid way will also get a reserved seat - and without said reservation his ticket to travel will not be valid on that service.

 

Of course the Downside of this is it can only really work on true limited stop long distance services - and the brutal truth is that in the UK, most ‘InterCity’ services also double up as commuter services - Cross Country suffering particularly badly with services via Birmingham (they would probably need to run non stop between Bristol & Birmingham or Birmingham & Derby at minimum to try and avoid the bulk of the commuter traffic).

[caradoc]

17 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Reserving seats on trains which are already on their way strikes me as one of the daftest ideas the privytised railway a has yet come up with.  Cross Country do it and it is a considerable disincentive to take a long journey with them as you can settle yourself in clearly unreserved seats I only to find - long before you are going to alight - that someone gets on and claims you are sitting in their reserved seat.  Fortunately it has never happened to me but I saw an example of it a while back which very nearly descended to fisticuffs.

I know they now show something about 'This seat may be reserved during the journey' but that's not much help to an old lady travelling from York to Bournemouth who didn't  reserve a seat in advance and isn't aware that they play this trick on unsuspecting irregular travellers.

 

I half agree with you Stationmaster; I have been asked to move from a seat which was unreserved when I joined the train but then became reserved ! Not helped of course by the reservation displays being impossible to see when seated. On the other hand, it would be very reassuring for the old lady travelling from York to Bournemouth if she was sure of getting a seat, even if only deciding to travel on that day. Ideally the Guard should be made aware when a seat becomes reserved during the journey so they can advise anyone already in that seat in advance; Or a system such as that used I believe by LNER where an occupied seat cannot subsequently be reserved (although the system cannot know where a person in an unreserved seat is alighting).

[31A]

Having just spent a few very pleasant days travelling around Belgium by train, I'd do away with seat reservations altogether in all but a few special cases, perhaps for wheelchairs and elderly/infirm 'assisted travellers'.

 

The only seat reservations we saw in Belgium were a few for school groups, which were indicated by window labels - there doesn't seem to be any provision for seat reservations by individuals.  It's truly 'turn up and go' which to my mind is one great advantage of the railway over plane or long distance coach.  And although it's quite a small country some of the journeys can be two or three hours.

 

To the best of my knowledge Holland and Switzerland are the same and possibly Austria although it's a long time since I've been there.  And in this country I believe Southern Railway and South Western Railway don't provide seat reservations despite running over some quite long 'inter city' type routes.

 

This removes so much hassle, you just get on, sit in the nearest suitable empty seat and admire the view.  No squinting at displays or labels to see whether reserved, if so where from / to, having to eject someone who's sat in your seat, being challenged by someone that they've reserved the seat you're in only to find out that they're in the wrong coach / train, people thrashing up and down aisles because the seat they've reserved is at the other end of the coach, 'no shows', wrong formations, computer failures etc. etc. etc.

[Mallard60022]

4 hours ago, 31A said:

Having just spent a few very pleasant days travelling around Belgium by train, I'd do away with seat reservations altogether in all but a few special cases, perhaps for wheelchairs and elderly/infirm 'assisted travellers'.

 

The only seat reservations we saw in Belgium were a few for school groups, which were indicated by window labels - there doesn't seem to be any provision for seat reservations by individuals.  It's truly 'turn up and go' which to my mind is one great advantage of the railway over plane or long distance coach.  And although it's quite a small country some of the journeys can be two or three hours.

 

To the best of my knowledge Holland and Switzerland are the same and possibly Austria although it's a long time since I've been there.  And in this country I believe Southern Railway and South Western Railway don't provide seat reservations despite running over some quite long 'inter city' type routes.

 

This removes so much hassle, you just get on, sit in the nearest suitable empty seat and admire the view.  No squinting at displays or labels to see whether reserved, if so where from / to, having to eject someone who's sat in your seat, being challenged by someone that they've reserved the seat you're in only to find out that they're in the wrong coach / train, people thrashing up and down aisles because the seat they've reserved is at the other end of the coach, 'no shows', wrong formations, computer failures etc. etc. etc.

Flanders and Swann would have done a lovely song about this sort of crap. Having had some Cider at lunch time ICBA to conjour up any of the possible words, however I can hear their jolly tones in my weeny brain cell that is still alight.

Philth

[black and decker boy]

800109 seen today on AC Power at Newcastle Central to form 5Q41 LNER Azuma Crew Training run to Edinburgh (AC all the way)

[Mallard60022]

33 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

800109 seen today on AC Power at Newcastle Central to form 5Q41 LNER Azuma Crew Training run to Edinburgh (AC all the way)

Great 'frame' in the first pic. 

I am not sure if I should be but I'm getting to like the look of these things, especially when they are sparkling like this.

P

[Hilux5972]

I do like that LNER livery. Suits the train very well. That being said i am a fan of the GWR livery too.

[Mallard60022]

The dark Green GW livery is good IMO and I think more appropriate than that 'First' dark Blue wavy stuff.

I see there are some odd workings on the ECML tomorrow. Newcastle to Retford 1G50 'Unadvertised Express'. It then becomes 1F51 to York (but looped twice for long periods).

There is an 'HST' from Leeds to Retford which becomes an Electric to Donny IEP Depot! Could that be an IEP on Diesel from Leeds and then whatever up to Donny?

P

[melmerby]

800112  forming 1A41 1645 Leeds - Kings Cross just outside Leeds (last thursday 4/7/2019) taken from "racing" class 158

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by melmerby

[Richard E]

17 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

The dark Green GW livery is good IMO and I think more appropriate than that 'First' dark Blue wavy stuff.

I see there are some odd workings on the ECML tomorrow. Newcastle to Retford 1G50 'Unadvertised Express'. It then becomes 1F51 to York (but looped twice for long periods).

There is an 'HST' from Leeds to Retford which becomes an Electric to Donny IEP Depot! Could that be an IEP on Diesel from Leeds and then whatever up to Donny?

P

Heaton T&RMSD to Newcastle (5G50) which becomes 1G50. From York it becomes 1G52 to Peterborough then 1F53 to Newcastle and then 5F53 back to Heaton.

[St. Simon]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

There is an 'HST' from Leeds to Retford which becomes an Electric to Donny IEP Depot! Could that be an IEP on Diesel from Leeds and then whatever up to Donny?

P

 

Hi,

 

Class 80x units can be classed as 'HSTs' for timing purposes if required, as can Class 91 sets.

 

Simon

[rodent279]

3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

The dark Green GW livery is good IMO and I think more appropriate than that 'First' dark Blue wavy stuff.

I see there are some odd workings on the ECML tomorrow. Newcastle to Retford 1G50 'Unadvertised Express'. It then becomes 1F51 to York (but looped twice for long periods).

There is an 'HST' from Leeds to Retford which becomes an Electric to Donny IEP Depot! Could that be an IEP on Diesel from Leeds and then whatever up to Donny?

P

Fraid I'll have to disagree there! I think the GW green livery is dull and unimaginative. I much preferred the green/cream of the original Great Western Trains, when launched back in the 1990's. I like the purple with wavy lines, but not sure it would suit an 800.

[Mallard60022]

8 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Fraid I'll have to disagree there! I think the GW green livery is dull and unimaginative. I much preferred the green/cream of the original Great Western Trains, when launched back in the 1990's. I like the purple with wavy lines, but not sure it would suit an 800.

Sadly I never saw that early livery in action. I would also agree that the all over green is rather unimaginative but when I saw them running in at Doncaster they looked really smart, however it is always sunny in Donny

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎05‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 17:09, jim.snowdon said:

It'sbeen like that ever since reservations were free - people doing return trips suffer no loss by booking a seat just in case, and the online booking systems in use these days positively encourage it by automatically offering the option.

 

Jim

I look out for seats reserved from Reading coming west out of Paddington -  I've only ever had to move once so assume it's quite common for them not to be taken up. Maybe it's incoming air passengers who don't make their intended train. Or do they also, perhaps, reserve on the services either side of their expected one to be on the safe side? 

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎06‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 15:43, Coryton said:

 

I expect I'm not the only person here who would see the end of "walk-up" long distance rail services in the UK as something of a move in the wrong direction. To put it mildly.

 

Easy enough to deal with, just have a dedicated portion of the train in which seats cannot be reserved. Doors could be colour coded to make it really simple to find.

 

That would make things much easier for everybody as, having boarded the appropriate coach(es),  one could just grab the first empty seat without having to check for a reservation.  Those with reservations would also benefit by not having seat-hunters getting in their way when they board.

 

I'm another who disagrees with seat reservations being free. It just encourages abuse of the system.

 

John

Edited July 9, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[jim.snowdon]

24 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Easy enough to deal with, just have a dedicated portion of the train in which seats cannot be reserved. Doors could be colour coded to make it really simple to find.

 

That would make things much easier for everybody as, having boarded the appropriate coach(es),  one could just grab the first empty seat without having to check for a reservation.  Those with reservations would also benefit by not having seat-hunters getting in their way when they board.

 

I'm another who disagrees with seat reservations being free. It just encourages abuse of the system.

 

John

They do, but it's not very much. For example, out of the seven standard class cars on an 11-car Pendolino, two (only) are unreservable, and of those, car C is effectively only half a car as much of its length is taken up with the shop and conductor's office. At the same time, there are four first class cars that are seldom loaded to anywhere near capacity for much of the day.

 

Jim

[31A]

Likewise on East Coast, the buffet car in Mk4 sets (coach H) isn't normally reserved, but is only half a coach (and doesn't have any power sockets!), and Coach F seems to be the 'last resort' for reservations - only reserved if really busy, so I usually make for that. 

[Titan]

14 hours ago, melmerby said:

800112  forming 1A41 1645 Leeds - Kings Cross just outside Leeds (last thursday 4/7/2019) taken from "racing" class 158

 

 

 

I find it very interesting how similar the silhouette is to that of an A4, minus buffers and chimney. They did a very good job in the 30's of getting the optimum streamlined shape!

[jim.snowdon]

12 minutes ago, Titan said:

I find it very interesting how similar the silhouette is to that of an A4, minus buffers and chimney. They did a very good job in the 30's of getting the optimum streamlined shape!

You can thank Ettore Bugatti for that. His 1930s railcars were the inspiration for Gresley and his design team.

 

Jim 

[Mallard60022]

A 'bit of trouble' on the ECML today from about 10.00. OHL damage between Grantham and PB. Almost all services cancelled from Retford. One Zoomer 800107 went south at 10.10ish and then was back sharpish so presumably only went up to Newark? I was at the Station from 09.55 until 11.15 ish and then gave up. Passengers for London were off to Sheffield and those for as far as Peterborough were awaiting the arrival of the Taxis or bustitution. 

I believe some services were diverted on the 'up' from Doncaster but CBA to check.

There will be swearing on the LNER Forums this evening.

P

[Mallard60022]

On ‎09‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 09:44, Titan said:

I find it very interesting how similar the silhouette is to that of an A4, minus buffers and chimney. They did a very good job in the 30's of getting the optimum streamlined shape!

I am going to annoy you Titan; apologies in advance. It is a bit of artistic licence to suggest the Zoomers' fronts are similar to an A4 except in a darkened tunnel in the middle of the night.

I get what you mean, however I would say they are more 'Bullet Train' like than dear old Gresley's lovely Pacifics. However, the Livery lines are quite like the shape of the valance.... 

 

No doubt someone clever will furnish a Zoomer with a funnel and some buffers...……………………...and then tell me I need to go to Specsavers.

However, there is this thing

…………...or maybe not!

Edited July 10, 2019 by Mallard60022

[iands]

30 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

A 'bit of trouble' on the ECML today from about 10.00. OHL damage between Grantham and PB. Almost all services cancelled from Retford. One Zoomer 800107 went south at 10.10ish and then was back sharpish so presumably only went up to Newark? I was at the Station from 09.55 until 11.15 ish and then gave up. Passengers for London were off to Sheffield and those for as far as Peterborough were awaiting the arrival of the Taxis or bustitution. 

I believe some services were diverted on the 'up' from Doncaster but CBA to check.

There will be swearing on the LNER Forums this evening.

P

OLE brought down by an Azuma - again!