Kernow Pete Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Many thanks Kernow Pete, Your information is so very useful, and helps to explain several features. I've read before that the auto gear could be stiff, so the Plymouth to Saltash and Liskeard (2 auto + loco + 2 auto) service must have been the most demanding. In times of difficulty, did they ever disconnect the auto gear, and yet still run in service, or was the gear always connected by rule? Regarding the lamps, so you suggest, at least around Plymouth, that lamps remained in place at each end, and with a red lens added when at rear? It looks like the front white window lining disappeared by the mid-50s, but lingered on the side cab windows until the 60s, at least on some. Thanks also for confirming the "pea green" bus seats. Cheers, Brian. Regarding lamps on auto trailers, the loco lamp was carried on the centre bracket throughout. The red slide is stored in the headlamp and just pulled out from the back or side and slid into the front when a red light is required. A clue to when auto trailers are being used without auto gear is the use of a tail lamp on the tail lamp bracket. Tail lamps are easily recognised by the clinched handle that allows them to hang steady on a coupling hook. Auto train headlamps on locomotives are often left on the centre lower bracket with the red slide being used when running at the rear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Pete Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Thanks Pete, So does that mean that with a Plymouth to Saltash/Liskeard 2 auto + loco + 2 auto formation, only the two leading coaches would have the regulator connected, and then vice versa on the return? If the rear cars were left regulator connected, would the levers move on their own in the cabs, or was there a dis-engaging/slip clutch device? Also, would intermediate car regulators be always connected, or were they by-passed underneath? BK Hi Brian, The front and rear ends of the loco have separate rods in the cab, basically they are clamped back out of the way for normal running or either one pinned to the regulator handle as required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Pete Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Indeed it might. If the water column was at the platform end, as was so often the case, it could have made life interesting with a sandwich formation. I have dim recollections - not first hand, you understand - that the SECR used to operate sandwich formation push-pull suburban trains, leading to some water columns being repositioned. While I'm posting: here are the instructions from the Plymouth cwp for winter 1956-57 in respect of what were still called "rail motors" despite what you and I call rail motors having died out in 1935. For the sets used on the Saltash shuttle all day the following was specified: "Formation: from London end. Auto engine and 2 trailers with Regulator London end. Auto engine to leave shed Chimney trailing." For the sets used between Plymouth and Tavistock it merely said "Auto Engine and Trailer", with a footnote in respect of some Saturdays Only workings "Additional Trailer (Millbay to provide)". Chris The water column at Saltash was in the middle of the Down platform and it was usual for Saltash Motor trains to take water there on all down services as there were no other "convenient" facilities on the route including Plymouth North Road. Water could also be taken at Tavistock on the Down Platform end before crossing over to the Up Platform to return to Plymouth. Edited December 1, 2015 by Kernow Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Pete Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Indeed it might. If the water column was at the platform end, as was so often the case, it could have made life interesting with a sandwich formation. I have dim recollections - not first hand, you understand - that the SECR used to operate sandwich formation push-pull suburban trains, leading to some water columns being repositioned. While I'm posting: here are the instructions from the Plymouth cwp for winter 1956-57 in respect of what were still called "rail motors" despite what you and I call rail motors having died out in 1935. For the sets used on the Saltash shuttle all day the following was specified: "Formation: from London end. Auto engine and 2 trailers with Regulator London end. Auto engine to leave shed Chimney trailing." For the sets used between Plymouth and Tavistock it merely said "Auto Engine and Trailer", with a footnote in respect of some Saturdays Only workings "Additional Trailer (Millbay to provide)". Chris Remember that the whistle is connected by a wire through the roof of the trailers. Running with the bunker to the trailer as stated above has practical safety advantages in that there is no wire for the fireman to get caught up on when he climbs up to take water and crosses to open the far hatch to allow the air out for faster filling. Water columns deliver much more water that a water main and time was at a premium at Saltash as the shunt to the Up line had to be performed before another Down train to Cornwall could be run. A starting signal was provided to allow Up departures from the Down platform to keep things moving and remained in use even with DMUs. Obviously when running with 4 trailers the wire will be in the way and the fireman will just have to be careful. The instructions on formation are interesting and it is worth paying attention to them. Alec Swain told me of a situation to which he was called relating to DMU unpowered trailers which with their Single Unit DMUs were of course the auto train's replacement. Apparently there was a working into Paddington in the mornings where a DMU was to be split off and left in the platform to form another service. The driver who came to take this unit out failed the train having been unable to start the engines and when Alec went to investigate he discovered it was i fact two trailers back to back so no chance of going anywhere. The instructions about storing all of Southalls single unit trailers pointing the same way had been broken. He didn't tell me which way was correct and I never thought to ask. Alec was a mine of operational information as well as a cracking photographer. best regards Pete C Edited December 1, 2015 by Kernow Pete 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Pete, thanks for reminding us of Alec Swain. He used to give a talk called "I assumed ..." and that Paddington incident should have been in it! At the risk of digressing I ought to mention that the driving trailers were not just used with bubble cars. Many and varied were the formations in the winter 1959-60 timetable, when Paddington had to rely on borrowed 3-car sets because the 117s were late being delivered. OK, back to auto trailers ... Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted December 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2015 The crews on the Chalford service also said that the driver wasn't always controlling the regulator.Is it omething which became more common as maintenance shortcomings made it more likey that linkages weren't free moving, or was it always the case? Davd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2015 Pete, thanks for reminding us of Alec Swain. He used to give a talk called "I assumed ..." and that Paddington incident should have been in it! At the risk of digressing I ought to mention that the driving trailers were not just used with bubble cars. Many and varied were the formations in the winter 1959-60 timetable, when Paddington had to rely on borrowed 3-car sets because the 117s were late being delivered. OK, back to auto trailers ... Chris Alec was a smashing bloke - used to take great delight in bringing models into the office as a means of diverting attention from work. Later, in my traincrew depot days, I was very sorry to see his departure from the post of our Divisional Traction and Traincrew Asst as he was well respected by all our Drivers and a very nice chap with it. there was quite a good model railway representation at his funeral but - perhaps indicative of how time passes - there were only two of us from the railway industry and, again alas, only two of us when his ashes were buried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinjamesporter Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Would auto trains in BR days have run in a coach-loco-coach formation or would the loco only be between coaches if there was more than 2? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Would auto trains in BR days have run in a coach-loco-coach formation or would the loco only be between coaches if there was more than 2? If an extra auto trailer was added and it faced the same way as the initial trailer, both coaches would run together with the loco at one end. If it faced the opposite way to the original trailer, it would not be possible to couple the mechanical linkage and so it would have to go at the other end of the loco. At least that is my understanding of W/Region practice. Edited December 1, 2015 by coachmann 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinjamesporter Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 If an extra auto trailer was added and it faced the same way as the initial trailer, both coaches would run together with the loco at one end. If it faced the opposite way to the original trailer, it would not be possible to couple the mechanical linkage and so it would have to go at the other end of the loco. At least that is my understanding of W/Region practice.Thanks Coachmann that makes sense.Best wishes Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Would auto trains in BR days have run in a coach-loco-coach formation or would the loco only be between coaches if there was more than 2? Post #365 above will help you. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinjamesporter Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Post #365 above will help you. Chris Thanks Chris that's brilliant. I missed that earlier when skimming through the topic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam in the North West Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Here is my review of the BR Lined Maroon version of the autocoach and I have to say it is absolutely brilliant. Maybe a tad expensive but I'm only getting one so can't really complain. Hope everyone enjoys. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9402 Fredrick Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I just got my lined maroon and plain crimson autocoaches today, I absolutley love them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted December 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2015 I've just received a red and cream one and am very pleased with it. Some have commented that there is not the same feeling of a huge leap forward compared with the Airfix/Hornby version compared to other new releases but I think that is much more because the Airfix model was extremely good for its day and is still not a bad model. A bit like the ancient Mainline Mk.1 restaurant/buffet still holding up well. The Bachmann one is a bit pricey but c'est la vie, I think we get used to it. As well as price inflation we will soon be faced with a produce to meet pre-order route, I don't like that model for locomotives but like it even less for coaches. I can see the points raised about the interior, but it is easily addressed by a lick of paint I think although I also take the point that you shouldn't really be faced with a need to get the paint brush out for a premium priced coach. Really, I think the criticisms I'd make rather minor and on the whole I think Bachmann have done a really good job. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted December 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2015 Anyone opened theirs up and peopled it up? Be interesting to see how much of a visual difference it is seeing as how large the windows are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9402 Fredrick Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I'm honestly hoping Bachmann releases some more, and gets out some of the GWR Collett ones, that'd be a site to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Possibly Hornby will do the pre-war auto Trailer now it has got the 7' wb bogies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9402 Fredrick Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Possibly Hornby will do the pre-war auto Trailer now it has got the 7' wb bogies. That could be a possibility for their 2017 or 2018 range. Back on topic, the colors in the coaches are inaccurate, but, like everyone else said, can be solved by some touch-ups of paint & card, I plan to leave mine as is since I'm bad at that stuff, the plain crimson and lined maroon ones look great paired with the plain black 64xx that I've had simce yesterday. Yes the price is jarring, but it would've been higher if there was lighting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2015 That could be a possibility for their 2017 or 2018 range. Back on topic, the colors in the coaches are inaccurate, but, like everyone else said, can be solved by some touch-ups of paint & card, I plan to leave mine as is since I'm bad at that stuff, the plain crimson and lined maroon ones look great paired with the plain black 64xx that I've had simce yesterday. Yes the price is jarring, but it would've been higher if there was lighting. I think I've posted this a while back . Lord & Butler do a ready lit one with passengers for around £100. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9402 Fredrick Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I think I've posted this a while back . Lord & Butler do a ready lit one with passengers for around £100. I saw that, I was talking about if Bachmann added it during the production. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) I don't know if this is of any use to the thread, but I have this photo of W220W Thrush taken at Banbury on 24th March 1962. Edited to correct the date from slide mount. Edited April 28, 2016 by jonny777 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 Very nice photo, good to see crimson and cream coach behind at this late date. The non driving end looks like it is very dirty maroon but unlined. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted April 29, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2016 I have just been into my local model shop here in NZ. This coach is retailing for an astonishing $238. That's about £100. I can buy a loco from the uk including postage for less than that. I couldn't believe it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 I have just been into my local model shop here in NZ. This coach is retailing for an astonishing $238. That's about £100. I can buy a loco from the uk including postage for less than that. I couldn't believe it. It's selling for $180 in Melbourne but that is way to expensive for a single coach, well it is for me anyway. It is a nice looking model though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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