Bachmann Hawksworth Autocoach

[Douglas G]

The preserved autocoach 233 is a real dogs dinner and nothing like how it was in BR service, different bogies it has a window plated up different buffers, and the current restoration has put windows in the non driving end which none of the BR built trailers had. The seats are from a modern road coach.

 

I have been looking through other colour photo books and agree in some shots the seats do seem green on the A40 batch but not clear enough to know for sure. What we do know is that the seats in the first batch as modelled by Bachmann should be brown, W220 Thrush was green, W221 Wren maybe green. W236 is red

 

 

Hi David,

 

Number W233 certainly is not original, and has been given bus seats as you say - the seat belts had to be removed. It also has a toilet and B4 bogies. But it is the only Hawksworth autocoach I know of that has bright blue seats like the Bachmann model, so I wondered if maybe someone there used it as inspiration when deciding what colour to use.

 

The fascinating story of the conversion of W233 to Test Car 1 at RTC Derby is given on this page:

 

http://www.traintesting.com/test_car_1.htm

 

This page includes a picture of the interior circa 1973, and it looks to me like the seats are the the originals fitted to Diagram A38 W 220-W234, with wooden frames and eight upholstery panels running vertically down the seat back. The fabric appears a browny-red colour, in line with other observations on these coaches:

 

http://www.traintesting.com/images/test%20car%201%20inside.jpg

 

On the plan on the web page showing the coach as he remembered it, the author Dave Coxon even indicates that these were the original seats.

 

Later on the interior was modified even more, and the coach gained some blue seats:

 

http://www.traintesting.com/images/one%20car%20inside%202%20c1980.jpg

 

 

Regarding W236, can you be sure that the autocoach interior in the film is actually W236 just because the film shows this coach from the outside in the same sequence? It is quite possible that shots were taken at different times and then edited together, especially if only one camera was being used. As far as I can tell Wren was in the area at the time. Just a suggestion...

 

Douglas

Edited November 15, 2015 by Douglas G

[David Bigcheeseplant]

"Regarding W236, can you be sure that the autocoach interior in the film is actually W236 just because the film shows this coach from the outside in the same sequence? It is quite possible that shots were taken at different times and then edited together, especially if only one camera was being used. As far as I can tell Wren was in the area at the time. Just a suggestion...

Douglas"

Although I can't not totally prove the interior is of W236 I am pretty certain it is as well being allocated to Banbury from May 1960 which fits in with the film. As I mentioned in a previous post the interior is not Wren due to the length of the bench seating adjacent to the entrence doors.

 

David

Edited November 15, 2015 by David Bigcheeseplant

[gwrrob]

http://precisionlabels.co.uk/sl12.html

 

Bespoke destination boards are available from John Peck in both maroon and chocolate version.

[dibber25]

So a tank was probably swapped from an out of service, or scrap, loco and as you say, with no time to match up the paintwork? The livery may have been restored a week or so later, during a quieter period, or perhaps never was, such was the state of play towards the end of WR steam?       BK

Yes, that would be my assumption. I doubt that it would have got repainted unless it paid a visit to Swindon works - probably unlikely by that time. Shed Masters were primarily concerned with turning out locos to cover all their duties. What those locos looked like was a secondary concern and became more so as the 1960s progressed. There was the odd notable depot repaint or quietly arranged works visit but that would be for a special duty, such as the Grantham A3 that came to the SR for a railtour. (CJL)

[locoholic]

I finally managed to read a magazine review of the Bachmann Hawksworth autocoach today, the magazine being Model Rail. I was surprised and disappointed to see that no mention was made of the prominent high floor level, or the very noticeable curved slots in the floor at each end. Did any of the other reviews pick these features up? I noticed them immediately, without even taking the coach out of the box. These are very expensive models, & such uncritical reviews are not helpful in my opinion.

 

I really hope that when the Bachmann Birdcage Stock finally arrives, they do not have similar avoidable shortcomings.

[coachmann]

At something like £29.99 the the slots and high floor would have been invisible..... 

[Barry O]

Never believe colours of preserved coaches. The interior of W231 was painted by the late Dave Smith (the Carriage Superintendent at Didcot), aided by a number of others including me when it was being restored in the late 1980s. The rexine coverings were painted as they had been badly marked in its years of use and Dave used some paint left over from other jobs. The seat ends and odd bits of woodwork was scumbled as that is what was believed to be the finish applied by BR (we couldn't find any other colours on the woodwork. Since then no doubt it has been repainted internally but which scheme did they use?

 

baz

[dibber25]

I finally managed to read a magazine review of the Bachmann Hawksworth autocoach today, the magazine being Model Rail. I was surprised and disappointed to see that no mention was made of the prominent high floor level, or the very noticeable curved slots in the floor at each end. Did any of the other reviews pick these features up? I noticed them immediately, without even taking the coach out of the box. These are very expensive models, & such uncritical reviews are not helpful in my opinion.

 

I really hope that when the Bachmann Birdcage Stock finally arrives, they do not have similar avoidable shortcomings.

I wrote that review and I can't say I noticed either of these aspects sufficiently to comment upon them. I guess it's down to expectations. I've yet to see a RTR coach model that does not have a compromised floor level - I'd just spent a day cutting people to fit the seats in a Hornby 153. I suspect that the Bachmann model was originally planned to have interior lighting - hence the slots in the floor, bogie pick-ups etc. (CJL)

[Dunsignalling]

I finally managed to read a magazine review of the Bachmann Hawksworth autocoach today, the magazine being Model Rail. I was surprised and disappointed to see that no mention was made of the prominent high floor level, or the very noticeable curved slots in the floor at each end. Did any of the other reviews pick these features up? I noticed them immediately, without even taking the coach out of the box. These are very expensive models, & such uncritical reviews are not helpful in my opinion.

 

I really hope that when the Bachmann Birdcage Stock finally arrives, they do not have similar avoidable shortcomings.

The Birdcages will have smaller windows, so it's less likely to be noticed if they do.........

 

John

[Brian Kirby]

I finally managed to read a magazine review of the Bachmann Hawksworth autocoach today, the magazine being Model Rail. I was surprised and disappointed to see that no mention was made of the prominent high floor level, or the very noticeable curved slots in the floor at each end. Did any of the other reviews pick these features up? I noticed them immediately, without even taking the coach out of the box. These are very expensive models, & such uncritical reviews are not helpful in my opinion.

 

That is such a picky comment about the floor, once you've painted the floor black, dark grey, dark brown or whatever, you'd need a torch to spot the semi-circular slots. So you'd rather not have working lights then? Any reviewer has to walk a tightrope, on the one hand not wishing to be too savage and upset the manufacturer, but on the other hand to stand up for the consumer, the art of a good review is to gently steer things in the right direction.  BK

[w124bob]

My main issue with the autocoach is I now have to build a layout for it (and the DJM 14XX I'm waiting for!), after years of doing American HO. I have a 11ftx2ft board currently doing fiddle yard duty, won't take to much time to remove the existing track. oh well here we go ! 

[Brian Kirby]

Well someone had to break ranks and start putting names on. I'm ready and braced for all the "thrush", "dose", and "itching to do" jokes. I didn't have any set names, but i'd worked out that i could rustle up the name from my old PC/HMRS transfer sheets, the letters are mostly poached from "Restaurant" with a couple of "H"s from "Kitchen" twice. "Wren" is perhaps possible, although the "W" is a problem. No, i haven't changed the interior yet, if you look closely, i haven't even wiped all the glue away from the transfers yet, not to mention varnish. Number is moved to the later r/h position.

                                                              Cheers, Brian.   

 

[dibber25]

My main issue with the autocoach is I now have to build a layout for it (and the DJM 14XX I'm waiting for!), after years of doing American HO. I have a 11ftx2ft board currently doing fiddle yard duty, won't take to much time to remove the existing track. oh well here we go ! 

Model the last day at Cirencester Town and you can have a nice Heljan AC railbus alongside a 14XX and two Bachmann autocoaches. In my book, that's as perfect as you can get! (CJL)

[locoholic]

That is such a picky comment about the floor, once you've painted the floor black, dark grey, dark brown or whatever, you'd need a torch to spot the semi-circular slots. So you'd rather not have working lights then? Any reviewer has to walk a tightrope, on the one hand not wishing to be too savage and upset the manufacturer, but on the other hand to stand up for the consumer, the art of a good review is to gently steer things in the right direction.  BK

 

If I noticed it immediately, without even getting the coach out of the box, then it's a fairly obvious feature which ought to have been mentioned in the review. Some people do not have the luxury of a local shop where they can inspect a model before buying, & rely on magazine reviews & photos on the internet. And if you're paying nearly £60 for one coach, I think you're entitled to be "picky"!

 

I inspected the model & decided that even with the slots and high floor I would buy it, and have painted the floor and put people in and, yes, it does look better. And yes, I'd rather not have working lights, as they would have highlighted the floor level and the slots even more! But surely the point is that there aren't working lights, just four bits of metal plus screws which I've presumably paid for, but which don't do anything except create the need for four large curved holes in the floor of the coach!

[TheSignalEngineer]

My main issue with the autocoach is I now have to build a layout for it (and the DJM 14XX I'm waiting for!), after years of doing American HO. I have a 11ftx2ft board currently doing fiddle yard duty, won't take to much time to remove the existing track. oh well here we go ! 

Make the fiddle yard into a BLT and you can still use it for your American HO and vice versa

[K14]

Never believe colours of preserved coaches. The interior of W231 was painted by the late Dave Smith (the Carriage Superintendent at Didcot), aided by a number of others including me when it was being restored in the late 1980s. The rexine coverings were painted as they had been badly marked in its years of use and Dave used some paint left over from other jobs. The seat ends and odd bits of woodwork was scumbled as that is what was believed to be the finish applied by BR (we couldn't find any other colours on the woodwork. Since then no doubt it has been repainted internally but which scheme did they use?

 

baz

 

Hi Baz

 

I was directly involved in W231's makeover between 2001 & 2006. I don't recall any Rexine in it, but there were acres of Holoplast, some of which had been vandalised years before in 'the attack of the mad axeman' & had large photos pinched from 9113 covering the damage. This time around the Holoplast was stripped back & was, as you say, found to be a bit the worse for wear - either scratched up (the brown panels) or discoloured (the cream). All were removed, stripped & the deep scratches filled flush with Isopon. All panels were then repainted with the nearest match we could get off the shelf from Brewers - 08B29 for the brown & an off-white (possibly 10C31 but don't quote me) for the cream. Seat ends were stained dark walnut & varnished as they were a plywood panel in a frame - was it these that were Rexine in your time? Railcar 22 has Rexine panels on its seat ends & they're of a very similar pattern to W231

 

I undertook the task of graining in the cab, vestibule & luggage van & used as a basis surviving original Factory scumbling in 7371's luggage van & 975's vestibule. Period photographs helped, but further clues were found when all the door capping strips were taken off (possibly for the first time in preservation) & underneath were clear traces of graining.

 

I won't say we've got it 100% right, but I feel we took it a lot closer than previous renovations. Both Bob Timmins (SVR) and Ken Habgood (ex Swindon Carriage Works foreman who rebuilt trailer 178) have given it a thumbs up, & that's good enough for me

 

Regards,

 

Pete S.

C&W Dept.,

GWS Didcot

1990-Present

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I have just found this photo of Thrush http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-GWR-LOCO-NO-5152-WITH-AUTO-COACHTHRUSH-AT-PRINCES-RISBOROUGH-IN-1957-/361428152413?hash=item5426cbf05d:g:ThkAAOSwNSxVdcewthe photo is dated 1957 and shows it in plain unlined livery I guess plain carmine. I wonder when Thrush was repainted from carmine and cream to plain carmine and from plain carmine to lined maroon. With a life of only 13 years there were a few changes.

Edited November 16, 2015 by David Bigcheeseplant

[57xx]

I finally managed to read a magazine review of the Bachmann Hawksworth autocoach today, the magazine being Model Rail. I was surprised and disappointed to see that no mention was made of the prominent high floor level, or the very noticeable curved slots in the floor at each end. Did any of the other reviews pick these features up? I noticed them immediately, without even taking the coach out of the box. These are very expensive models, & such uncritical reviews are not helpful in my opinion.

 

I really hope that when the Bachmann Birdcage Stock finally arrives, they do not have similar avoidable shortcomings.

 

Can you list the coaches from any manufacturer that have got scale height floors? I'd be interested to know how many there are.

[Brian Kirby]

I have just found this photo of Thrush http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-GWR-LOCO-NO-5152-WITH-AUTO-COACHTHRUSH-AT-PRINCES-RISBOROUGH-IN-1957-/361428152413?hash=item5426cbf05d:g:ThkAAOSwNSxVdcewthe photo is dated 1957 and shows it in plain unlined livery I guess plain carmine. I wonder when Thrush was repainted from carmine and cream to plain carmine and from plain carmine to lined maroon. With a life of only 13 years there were a few changes.

Having looked at the photo/thumbnail, and if it really is 1957, which fits, then the shabby condition would suggest crimson/carmine. Maroon would be squeaky clean and new in 1957, Unfortunately, John Lewis has got the two colours very confused in his book.  BK

Edited November 16, 2015 by Brian Kirby

[locoholic]

Can you list the coaches from any manufacturer that have got scale height floors? I'd be interested to know how many there are.

Since you ask, Hornby came much closer to it with the Devon Belle Observation Car (where a similar issue would have been even more noticeable), so if they can do it, why can't Bachmann?

 

But then Hornby didn't change their mind halfway through the design & manufacture process and lumber their coach with redundant electrical pickups and four great big slots in the coach floor, nor did they make the coach interior out of very shiny off-white plastic. The pickups in the Observation Saloon were far less obtrusive and were actually connected to interior lights!

 

I am frankly baffled why some people are apparently willing to turn a blind eye to two pretty blatant and avoidable shortcomings in the new autocoach, and yet agonise for days about precisely what design of seat fabric a coach had at any particular time, and I can't help thinking that undue deference is being shown towards the model simply because it comes in a blue box rather than a red one.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I am frankly baffled why some people are apparently willing to turn a blind eye to two pretty blatant and avoidable shortcomings in the new autocoach, and yet agonise for days about precisely what design of seat fabric a coach had at any particular time, and I can't help thinking that undue deference is being shown towards the model simply because it comes in a blue box rather than a red one.  

 

I don't turn a blind eye I do some modelling to correct things if needed, I don't really care what colour box it comes in the model is dimensionally accurate the paint job is fantastic, and it forms a easy basis to make an fantastic model, I have already taken the seating out to measure the floor up to make replacement seating for Thrush Wren and the later bus seat diagrams. I don't really think it would be a major job to fill the slots with filler if you find them offensive.

 

I am a railway modeller rather than a collector and I think this is the best way to have Hawksworth trailer. I spent quite a bit of money and time trying to build a Comet auto trailer to a high standard but the detail on the Bachmann version has made me leave the Comet one unfinished. The fine rivets on the roof exquisite  how an earth you could do these on a aluminium roof of the Comet version?

 

At around £60 I still think it is good value it is not perfect what model is, I hopefully think it will produce with some work something outstanding. 

[locoholic]

David, I agree with you (almost) completely. The Bachmann offering is far and away the best Hawksworth autocoach we're going to get. The design of the interior is so disappointing because the faults are totally unnecessary and I don't think that for £60 anyone should be required to dismantle a new model and either make a new interior, or even just paint it, to compensate for Bachmann's poor design.

 

The other Bachmann model I had been looking forward to was the Modified Hall, and Bachmann managed to mess that up too, so may be that's why I'm being a bit "picky"!

[Brian Kirby]

   The semi-circular slots are unfortunate, but they are hardly a game changer, i suspect Bachmann had greater things planned, but it was pegged back on grounds of cost. The shallowness of the floor is also unfortunate, i suspect floors have to be beefed up to give the model rigidity, and it may also have been designed this way to accommodate the aforementioned "greater thing", i.e. lights and hidden circuit board? I agree with Dave about the exquisite Bachmann roof, so much so that i've got a spare set of Comet etches and i plan to build these into a cheap Airfix donor, like i did with the Chris Leigh kit a couple of pages back, rather than using the plan Comet alloy roof (it's all to do with getting a nice thin roof edge for the front).

    As for replacing complete floor sections with new seats and layouts, yes it's extravagant practice on a pricey product, but some of us just crave something different. As for the price, it's certainly dearer than expected, but then it's a one-off type for Bachmann, no multiple types here, so costs cannot be spread across other variations, using standard components. Add to this that even the bogies are brand new, so there's a lot of investment to recoup, and we all want Bachmann to have a healthy financial state, too many people expect stuff at bargain prices, as if it were a social service. Unless a manufacturer makes a good profit, you won't see many more new products or ideas.    BK

[Andrew F]

Once we have accepted paying £60 for "one off" inspection saloons, it should not be too long before we are making excuses for finding £60 for a normal coach .....hopefully with lighting and better interiors though!

[Hilux5972]

I still Don't understand why they would fit pickups if they havent fitted lights. Just doesn't make sense. And what especially doesn't make sense to me is the price. Even Hornbys Pullmans are cheaper than the Autocoach.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Hilux5972