Bachmann Hawksworth Autocoach

[Dunsignalling]

I still Don't understand why they would fit pickups if they havent fitted lights. Just doesn't make sense. And what especially doesn't make sense to me is the price. Even Hornbys Pullmans are cheaper than the Autocoach.

Yes, but Hornby Pullmans are made using a range of standard bits within each series (and in some cases, across them). By mixing them in various combinations, they can make  quite a lot of different models from a relatively small suite of tools. Pullman Cars not only exploit the market's skewed desire for the exotic over the everyday but the real things generally ran (and look best) in quite long formations thus ensuring repeat sales as we build our rakes. 

 

On the Auto-coach, virtually nothing (apart from the bogies) will be of use in the production of other coaches so Bachmann have to recoup all their costs from the one model. Just to make things worse, the nature of the prototype means that almost nobody will buy more than four and the majority will only require one or two. 

 

Given the amount of flak Bachmann received over the price, I'm guessing that they chickened out (fairly late in the day) from pushing it up even further by adding lighting, which not everyone wants anyway. Possibly why Hornby have never seen fit to upgrade the Auto-trailer they inherited from Airfix/Dapol to modern standards?

 

John

Edited November 17, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Hilux5972]

Yes, but Hornby Pullmans are made using a range of standard bits within each series (and in some cases, across them). By mixing them in various combinations, they can make quite a lot of different models from a relatively small suite of tools. Pullman Cars not only exploit the market's skewed desire for the exotic over the everyday but the real things generally ran (and look best) in quite long formations thus ensuring repeat sales as we build our rakes.

 

On the Auto-coach, virtually nothing (apart from the bogies) will be of use in the production of other coaches so Bachmann have to recoup all their costs from the one model. Just to make things worse, the nature of the prototype means that almost nobody will buy more than four and the majority will only require one or two.

 

Possibly why Hornby have never seen fit to upgrade the Auto-trailer they inherited from Airfix/Dapol to modern standards?

 

John

Yeah I suppose so. I'd still like to know why they didn't fit lighting when they did fit pickups.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I don't really get the lighting thing, the taillight would have only been lit at night, and having a brightly lit interior just jars, I see very few layouts that are lit and those which are just seem gimmicky fine for a Christmas tree but not on a layout. I would have thought railways in the 50s and 60s were quite dull places at night. I would rather have detail and weathering that looks great in daylight rather that lights.

[Dunsignalling]

Yeah I suppose so. I'd still like to know why they didn't fit lighting when they did fit pickups.

Covered (I think) in my subsequent edit.

 

I have the feeling that, as they did the same with the LMR inspection cars it may be "policy" to fit pick-ups to the bogies of all new coach ranges in preparation for future use.

 

J

[Andrew F]

Bachmann tend to upgrade their stock and fit lighting later; take the Class 37 for example that appeared with several modifications to the lighting over the years. It seems a natural progression as more modellers have DCC these days and sound and lighting become more popular.

   It could be an indeterminable wait these days if you want a saloon with lighting but the job is made much easier by the inclusion of pick-ups on the bogies for those who want to fit their own. The yellow leds used on rtr never looked right to me

. I suppose if you're going to detail the interior you'd probably either want your own custom lighting or not want lighting at all and Bachmann can hoover up some more sales when they upgrade later, possibly from the people who bought it first time round and wanted lighting.

[Hilux5972]

Bachmann tend to upgrade their stock and fit lighting later; take the Class 37 for example that appeared with several modifications to the lighting over the years. It seems a natural progression as more modellers have DCC these days and sound and lighting become more popular.

It could be an indeterminable wait these days if you want a saloon with lighting but the job is made much easier by the inclusion of pick-ups on the bogies for those who want to fit their own. The yellow leds used on rtr never looked right to me

. I suppose if you're going to detail the interior you'd probably either want your own custom lighting or not want lighting at all and Bachmann can hoover up some more sales when they upgrade later, possibly from the people who bought it first time round and wanted lighting.

That's a good point Andrew. Having the pickups pre-fitted does make it a lot easier on modellers to fit their own lighting.

[Budgie]

I wish Bachmann would make it easier for us to use those pickups to connect all the items in a train electrically. They do have electrically conducting NEM pockets that they could use; they use them on their 4CEP models. It shouldn't be difficult to connect coaches to each other and to the locomotive using conducting drawbars similar to those used in the 4CEP. And the more pickups the loco can rely on, the better it will run.

[dibber25]

Yeah I suppose so. I'd still like to know why they didn't fit lighting when they did fit pickups.

Presumably the bogies are designed to be used across a range of future coaches which will have lights. I think we can expect to see prices of this order become the norm for coaching stock in future. It equates with the likes of Rapido vehicles which are currently at £55-70 - usually, it's true, with on-board lighting. (CJL)

[paullad1984]

I really want one, BUT not at that price!  Sticking with the old Airfix/Hornby ones for now!

[K14]

Turfed this out of a pile of stuff that needed scanning today:—

 

 

Can't read the paint date (it's only 1/4" high!) & there's no sign of the 'S.P.' panel on the end either, so a precise date is sadly lacking, although John Lewis' book has a weight drawing annotated "Thrush" dated Jan '52. The tare weight on the drawing is given as 32T 4C which tallies with the 32 on the end; regular A38s were a nominal 31T 1C.

 

Seating capacity remained unchanged at 64 3rds, unlike W221 which ended up seating 70.

 

Cab interior was still grained/scumbled. Can't quite make up my mind about the sliding door - it looks like it was varnished dark brown/walnut stain, although it  **may** have received a melamine/Holoplast overlay.

 

P.

[Brian Kirby]

Great picture K14, thanks for sharing. It's inspired me to add the white window lines to my "Thrush" tonight, i did them quickly on the OUTSIDE with a Rotring pen, some white ink  and the straight edge of some spare glazing (so i can see where it's going). I'm already wondering if it might have been better with white tape or transfer correctly on the inside, but just as tricky. I might change it. BK

 

[K14]

Great picture K14, thanks for sharing. It's inspired me to add the white window lines to my "Thrush" tonight, i did them quickly on the OUTSIDE with a Rotring pen, some white ink  and the straight edge of some spare glazing (so i can see where it's going). I'm already wondering if it might have been better with white tape or transfer correctly on the inside, but just as tricky. I might change it. BK

 

For the sake of your sanity, don't do it! It's hard enough to line the glass from the inside on the real thing, stuff that for a game of soldiers at 4mm/ft. Anyway...

 

In the 'prototype for everything' category m'lud, I refer you to P.24 of Vol 1 of JL's Trailers. Top middle is a pic of a Dia. U in a two-tone livery & the central portion of the white line on the Driver's window is missing, presumed scraped off by the wiper. There are a number of other shots in the book which show no line at all on that window but all present & correct elsewhere. These strongly suggest that the lines were, on occasion, slapped on the outside of the glass (probably when the Foreman wasn't around).

Pretty sure I've seen another example of this, maybe in Russell Vol 2.

 

Looking at the photo again, the curtains look to be a colour other than light grey or cream. Surely there must be a colour shot of an A.38 when new?

 

Oh... One other thing... Please paint that gong on your other trailer to match the body colour. They're steel castings in 304.8mm/ft scale

 

P.

 

 

[Andrew F]

The kit is tasty...nice glazing.

[chrisf]

Looking at Brian's pictures above leads me to wonder whether there is scope for raiding the Dart Castings detailing kit designed for the Airfix A28/A30.  Handrails, auto rodding, decent folding steps - hmmm.

 

Chris

[w124bob]

Does anyone know the numbers of of the autocoaches which feature a lot in the new Lightmoor Press book on the Dean Forest book?. 8701 and 6437 are the SLS tour locomotives. Photos dated May 13th 1961 Sixbells archive doesn't list the coach numbers http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/60s/610513sl.html I know from one close up plain maroon 239 was sandwiched between 8701 +W239W+6437+?+?(lined) .

[dibber25]

Does anyone know the numbers of of the autocoaches which feature a lot in the new Lightmoor Press book on the Dean Forest book?. 8701 and 6437 are the SLS tour locomotives. Photos dated May 13th 1961 Sixbells archive doesn't list the coach numbers http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/60s/610513sl.html I know from one close up plain maroon 239 was sandwiched between 8701 +W239W+6437+?+?(lined) .

I think this special appears a couple of times in my book "Western Steam in Colour: Branch LInes' (Ian Allan) in pictures by Bill Potter. Not sure if you'll be able to read the coach numbers, though, and I don't have a copy of the book to hand. (CJL)

[Brian Kirby]

For the sake of your sanity, don't do it! It's hard enough to line the glass from the inside on the real thing, stuff that for a game of soldiers at 4mm/ft. Anyway...

 

In the 'prototype for everything' category m'lud, I refer you to P.24 of Vol 1 of JL's Trailers. Top middle is a pic of a Dia. U in a two-tone livery & the central portion of the white line on the Driver's window is missing, presumed scraped off by the wiper. There are a number of other shots in the book which show no line at all on that window but all present & correct elsewhere. These strongly suggest that the lines were, on occasion, slapped on the outside of the glass (probably when the Foreman wasn't around).

Pretty sure I've seen another example of this, maybe in Russell Vol 2.

 

Looking at the photo again, the curtains look to be a colour other than light grey or cream. Surely there must be a colour shot of an A.38 when new?

 

Oh... One other thing... Please paint that gong on your other trailer to match the body colour. They're steel castings in 304.8mm/ft scale

 

P.

Thanks again K14, having slept on it, i'm gonna leave it as it is. Putting the lining on the inside will be more difficult and require a mini strip down, plus transfers or tape can leave glue stains, so more complication. There are a couple of blemishes in my ink lining, but it looks okay in the flesh, over-size digital pics are so cruel, and highlight the slightest fault.   BK

[w124bob]

I think this special appears a couple of times in my book "Western Steam in Colour: Branch LInes' (Ian Allan) in pictures by Bill Potter. Not sure if you'll be able to read the coach numbers, though, and I don't have a copy of the book to hand. (CJL)

I have the book and the pictures are the same.

[Brian Kirby]

The kit is tasty...nice glazing.

Thanks Andy, that's Chris L's kit on the right. Well the sides are from his kit, everything else, including the cab, is Airfix. The front end is not strictly kosher, i deepened the cab windows to suit the Hawksworth, but the lower details are (and to paraphrase the great Eric Morecambe) "the right bits, but not necessarily in the right order". Anyway, who's gonna know(?), even an old fusspot like me is happy with it, you'd only notice by comparing with a drawing or pic (or the one standing right next to it!). Cab glazing is just hand cut, took about an hour, whilst half-watching a programme on telly.    BK

[coachmann]

Whatever purpose the white lines on the windscreen served initially, you would be hard put to find them by 1958 and very possibly earlier.

[Brian Kirby]

Whatever purpose the white lines on the windscreen served initially, you would be hard put to find them by 1958 and very possibly earlier.

I get the impression they were just to remind everyone that the glass was there, or maybe it highlighted the cab in the dark, for the signalman to offer a token? Signalmen did often hold tokens aloft, like an out-stretched tennis racket, maybe some windscreens were getting smashed? It's a puzzler?    BK

[coachmann]

I get the impression they were just to remind everyone that the glass was there, or maybe it highlighted the cab in the dark, for the signalman to offer a token? Signalmen did often hold tokens aloft, like an out-stretched tennis racket, maybe some windscreens were getting smashed? It's a puzzler?    BK

Considering the steam railmotors right from 1903 had similar end windows (and no one found them necessary during wartime black out), it is hard to imagine what was going through someones mind when the white lines were introduced on BR built GW design auto trailers built almost half a Century later. 

[David Bigcheeseplant]

The photos of Thrush in 1962 have no line on the front windows but there is still a vertical white line on the drivers door. Maybe the white line was visions of Adam Ant in the future!

[bigherb]

I thought the white lines where the bottom of the sun blinds, the glass looks darker above the line.

[K14]

I thought the white lines where the bottom of the sun blinds, the glass looks darker above the line.

 

None of the trailers had sun blinds in the Driver's compartment, only in the passenger saloons (apart from the Hawksworths which had curtains). The upper windscreen in the second batch of AEC diesel railcars was tinted though.

 

In the works shot I posted, I guess what you're interpreting as tinting is just the general gloom in the upper part of the cab. The photo also suffers from reflections of the surrounding buildings, which can confuse matters.

 

P.