We have a problem, Houston?.particularly if you build copper clad track

[gordon s]

They do vary, Brian, but they are good enough for me.  I took a pile of 20 and the smallest was 3.36mm and the largest 3.51mm.  The bulk of them were 3.40-3.45mm.

 

To be honest I just took them at being 3.3mm as my eyesight isn't good enough to spot the fraction of a mm once painted and ballasted.

[martin_wynne]

they now appear to have a break off point and need to be sanded at one end

DSCF7349.jpg

 

Hi Gordon,

 

A snip with Xuron rail cutters would be much quicker?

 

Martin.

[polybear]

Hi Gordon,

 

A snip with Xuron rail cutters would be much quicker?

 

Martin.

 Or perhaps something like this, with a 90 degree guide fence?:

 

http://www.osbornsmodels.com/expo-mb450-minicraft-bench-sander-24266-p.asp

 

polybear

[gordon s]

Possibly Martin, but I didn't want to overly shorten them.  I have a sanding block on my desk and all it takes are a couple of passes to bring it square. Takes about 2-3 seconds at most.

 

Personally, it's far quicker for me to sand them.  I've got to pick up the cutters and get them into my 'senior' hands properly, align them across the sleeper and then cut.  

 

Odds are I'd probably drop them at least once…:-)

[hayfield]

I have found in the long past when building the SMP kits that if the copperclad is overheated you run the risk of the copper foil coming away from the Paxoine, I also found that a batch of sleeper strip obtained from Marcway (soon after taking over SMP) had very variable widths, both between strips and end to end, they may now have mastered SMP's guillotine which at the time was giving them problems

 

I now cut C&L sleeper strip with a junior hacksaw, takes a bit longer but nice and straight. I do only use a very old file for the fibreglass strip which is kept for the job. I also have a very fine 6" file (been told its a jewellers file) and use it across the face of the copperclad strip to de-burr the edges. As said I will have to buy some strip from Marcway if Peter cannot sort out his supplier soon.

 

I was sent a short sample piece of the fibreglass strip by Marcways, to my eyes not up to C&L's standards, clearly guillotined and I would be spending time squaring off the sides

[polybear]

I've been cutting copperclad using this:

 

 

- Fitted with an adjustable depth stop to make cutting sleepers to the same length quick:

 

 

It's an Office Guillotine (made by Rex) and purchased from (I think) Aldi several years ago for not very much (under a tenner I think). I was sure it would come in really handy, but has spent most of it's life in the loft...

 

It works really well on 1.06mm (C&L) strip - no doubt 1.2mm would be similar; I've also tried it on some 1.6mm strip - the results are also good (not quite as good as the thinner strip, but after ballasting you would never know). It's a bit more brutal though, with a decided grrr-ronk (technical term) as the blade goes down.  The guillotine has a raised edge to guide the sleeper strip and ensure squarely cut ends.

 

HTH

polybear

[Junctionmad]

 

 

I really feel for the individuals working at 1.06mm height if the supply of this will be compromised in the future.

Given that 1mm PCB is a very common thickness , Im not sure why in general there should be a supply problem 

[hayfield]

Given that 1mm PCB is a very common thickness , Im not sure why in general there should be a supply problem 

 

 

C&L's problem is not one of material availability but the cost of supplying cut pieces of copperclad

[sp1]

C&L's problem is not one of material availability but the cost of supplying cut pieces of copperclad

Does this mean that there will be a problem in future with supplying the other thicknesses they do when stock runs out?

Has anyone actually spoken to anyone at C&L about this?

[dhjgreen]

There is an explanation and update here:

 

http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_347_359_649

[Focalplane]

I just read the Finescale link ( see above) and it confirmed what I thought.  I bought some copperclad 3.3mm at the Leamington show but they had no 4mm wide strips with them.  Apparently we now know they didn't have any at all.

 

I suppose the moral of this thread is to estimate what you will need at the beginning of a new project and buy all the track materials in one go.

 

I am not surprised that prices are going up - not just because copperclad sheeting is becoming more expensive but because the process of creating sleepers is not anywhere close to the usual needs of the electronics industry, as noted by Pete Llewellyn in his explanation on the Finescale site.

 

I have to admit that my preference for using copperclad sleepers is based on the fact that that is what was available in the late 1960s and I have a strong desire to rekindle those skills now I am retired.  If I was building O gauge track it would be a very different story - I have a copy of an American book called Detailing Track by Mike Cougill which is one of many reasons why I ask myself the question - why didn't I choose O gauge?  Well, there is a simple answer to that - space!

[sp1]

I just read the Finescale link ( see above) and it confirmed what I thought. I bought some copperclad 3.3mm at the Leamington show but they had no 4mm wide strips with them. Apparently we now know they didn't have any at all.

 

I suppose the moral of this thread is to estimate what you will need at the beginning of a new project and buy all the track materials in one go.

 

I am not surprised that prices are going up - not just because copperclad sheeting is becoming more expensive but because the process of creating sleepers is not anywhere close to the usual needs of the electronics industry, as noted by Pete Llewellyn in his explanation on the Finescale site.

 

I have to admit that my preference for using copperclad sleepers is based on the fact that that is what was available in the late 1960s and I have a strong desire to rekindle those skills now I am retired. If I was building O gauge track it would be a very different story - I have a copy of an American book called Detailing Track by Mike Cougill which is one of many reasons why I ask myself the question - why didn't I choose O gauge? Well, there is a simple answer to that - space!

I started building track fairly recently, having put off trying for many reasons (probably thinking of it as a 'black art' that was beyond me). Having found that it was not all that difficult I now really enjoy building copperclad track, and can now build a simple turnout in a couple of hours. It would be a shame if the strips become unavailable or prohibitively expensive (the COST AND appearance is much better than Peco). If that happens then properly chaired track on either plastic or timber sleepers would become the only option - but that takes the cost factor out of the equation, as well as having to learn new skills....

[hayfield]

There is a note on C&L's website that they may soon resolve the supply matter

[Focalplane]

There is a note on C&L's website that they may soon resolve the supply matter

Yes, but keep for fingers crossed for the quotation!

[Focalplane]

I have received my order of 4mm wide copper clad sleeper strips from Wizard.  They are not exactly the same as the ones I bought from C&L and if anything are slightly  (~0.1mm) thinner because there is copper on only one side.  The widths are certainly more variable.  As I am building models of a GWR branch line and a BR engine shed I am not too concerned with these variations between suppliers as the prototypes probably also had more variety and wear and tear than, say, the ECML.

[donmatter]

Has anyone any experience of soldering spacers to raise the rails above the copperclad (O-F/31.5)?

[hayfield]

I have had experience with 4 mm copperclad construction, where around the common crossing I used copperclad sleepers raised by 0.5 mm to match chaired track. It was an experiment as an alternative way of building the common crossing, worked very well. Only used 3 copperclad sleepers, pre gapped and filled for electrical insulation. I would use 0.5 mm copperclad strip rather than metal, for ease of grinding back to the rail sides with a slitting disk. You would not know which are the copperclad and which are the plastic ones just by looking

 

In 7 mm scale you would need 1 mm metal/copperclad to raise the rails, If you are going to chair the track I would use the minimum number of copperclad timbers as I was looking for ease of build

[Campaman]

I have just received my order from Marcway for 1.6 x 4mm copper clad strip, to be honest apart from it being single sided I can see very little difference to the last few C & L strips that I have, one thing I did notice is that it seems to cut easier, maybe that's because its single sided.

 

As I was ordering I also got some code 75BH rail, very reasonable carriage charge of £4 via My Hermes for 2-3 day service, at least they don't seem to have the problems that C & L are having with carriers with the length of the rail parcels and increased carriage costs.

[Focalplane]

I visited C&L this afternoon and Pete Llewelyn told me that he is trying to find yet another supplier and had just sent off samples to a new potential supplier. So the last one obviously didn't stack up cost wise, etc.

[polybear]

I visited C&L this afternoon and Pete Llewelyn told me that he is trying to find yet another supplier and had just sent off samples to a new potential supplier. So the last one obviously didn't stack up cost wise, etc.

 

The C&L Finescale website also suggests that the samples received were incorrect and/or of insufficient quality:

 

Copperclad - The received samples were wrong - we have sent examples of our products to the manufacturer to see if they are able to make it how we want it.

 

HTH

 

polybear

[hayfield]

The C&L Finescale website also suggests that the samples received were incorrect and/or of insufficient quality:

 

Copperclad - The received samples were wrong - we have sent examples of our products to the manufacturer to see if they are able to make it how we want it.

 

HTH

 

polybear

 

 

Hardly rocket science 

[roythebus]

I made thousands of pcb sleepers many years for the New Annington layout. I found a pcb company in Mitcham who kindly let me use their guillotine for days on end!

 

For plain track I cut the sheet into sleeper length at first, then re-set the guillotine to cut the widths. I used a grp-type pcb, single sided, and fortunately a power guillotine. My feet suffered what we now call repetitive strain injury!

[hayfield]

Now to get square sides they are cut either by saw or router from what I can gather

[AndyID]

Shearing copper-clad laminate to make timbers is quite tricky, particularly with the thicker laminates. I can get strips of FR4 made locally, but the widths are not terribly consistent, and the sides are often not perpendicular to the top and bottom. In future, I think I will order them a bit oversize and file them down to the required width. It only takes a few strokes with a fairly coarse file in this jig thing I cobbled together.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97958-turnout-tools/?p=1845582

 

If I need to make a large number I will make a fixture to hold them while I plane the edges on a router table.

 

I don't know what material C&L use, but the strips from SMP were made from 50 thou single-sided FR2, which has a phenolic paper substrate. FR2 is probably a bit easier to shear than FR4 which is has a glass reinforced epoxy substrate, but FR4 is a lot easier to find in the US

 

 

[hayfield]

Had a chat with Peter at Railex this afternoon, and Peter said he had heard from the possible new supplier of copperclad sleeper strip after receiving peters samples has confirmed his ability to supply the strip required. No idea of time frame or costs but a solution looks to have been found. Good news as Wizzard Models have sold out of their 4 mm scale strip and are having the same problems with cost.