Grasshopper John Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 More work done on the smokebox, the inner ring now fitted You can see how much of a difference it's made by the gap now on the bottom Measures as follows 12 - 6 F 38..40mm R 38.45 9 - 3 F 38.36 R 38.39 even by my standards thats as close as i'm going to get it, The front cover is now a Bu**er to fit Just a photo of all the pieces, I've now formed the cab turn in's ( after a lot of practice ) and added the handrail knobs then filed them flush to the rear. Grasshopper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Hi John just been catching up with your build. Seems like you have the same issues with the DA kit that I had with Javelin kit in relation to getting the smokebox right and its alignment with the footplate. First of all the cast smokebox ring is too small for the diameter of the smoke box wrapper . The solution for me was to solder up the wrapper first then push in the etched rear ring and solder that in. That gave me a perfect parallel sided cylinder, not a slight cone that results from soldering the front tight around the cast ring. I cut the ring at the bottom and splayed it out about 3 mm until it matched the diameter of the smokebox. Before fitting I filled the gap with a piece of spare white metal from a casting soldered in with low melt. Then I fettled it up before inserting. Solved. To get it to sit parallel to the footplate you have already mention the solution. That is to file the front and the rear of the boiler back to the disc at the top at the front, and at the bottom at the rear. Hope that makes sense and is of assistance. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Hello John, Here's a picture showing the smoke box ring modification. Unfortunately the picture was taken after it was in place, but if you look closely you can just see the insert in the circle. I don't have any pictures of the boiler after I filed the front and rear faces, but it looks like that's what you will need to do to get the smoke box to sit parallel to the footplate. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 Many Thanks Peter, It's been a big learning curve, I've had a few setbacks I can tell you but that will be over a pint at TELFORD Going to make it for Sat & Sun this year You have plenty of time to arrange something, Be good to see you my friend. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 First job today was figure out how to fit the Turn In's to the rear of the cab without burning my fingers, Not possible so I had to hold them in place and suffer. Done now the handails are just dry fitted Then I started on the bands, the firebox has all three in place and the front on the boiler one covers the small gap I had nicely. Just two to fit to the boiler, I thought this was a long Firebox model but according to the measurements I dont think so. Edit just noticed I need to move the front band on right slightly forward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot6p Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Hi John by looking at the fire-box it is the long fire-box, you can tell that as the join from the fire-box to the boiler is in line with the centre axle. Len Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I know it's not a black 5 but it shows the rear cab handrails very well. Copyright as per photo. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Cheers OzzyO thats exactly how I attached them, bloody fiddly though. All the Bands now in place and I sorted out the one at the front of the firebox. Len your right, I was measuring from the wrong point. Next the cab roof, No idea how to form it ATM as it's curved at the sides and flat in the middle. Grasshopper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Spent the good part of this morning forming the cab roof, the difficulty was that its curved at the edges and flat in the middle so it did take a few attempts, perseverance won though. Just to finish before I go out I added a few ribs on the inside. Grasshopper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Spent the good part of this morning forming the cab roof, the difficulty was that its curved at the edges and flat in the middle so it did take a few attempts, perseverance won though. DSCN0586.JPG DSCN0589.JPG Just to finish before I go out I added a few ribs on the inside. DSCN0588.JPG Grasshopper. Hmmm, your getting good at this . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Cheers Martyn, It's not easy. Only job today was I thought not too bad, How wrong. Fitting the cab roof was difficult but the beading was a different matter. Three sections which have a half etched groove have to be put on the cab side's then formed for the first bend in the extension then bent backwards for the roof. It took more than one attempt I kid you not. So all now soldered in place. I wish I had more experience, It's the best I could do with my ability, It will come though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I'm learning, It pays to dry fit before as I folded the sandbox filler pipes to 90dg which of course they are not because of the shape of the boiler, so more fettling with them and the pipes and lids a whole morning just on four little pieces, Jazz would have built a loco in that time The cab is done now so it's now on to the detail, ( That should be fun ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2014 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Going well there John, you'll have painted yours by the time I get to this point on mine! Cannot agree more on how often I think 'this will be easy' only to find it's a complete pain. Then things you think are going to be awful actually end up being quite easy. I think for me I spend much more time thinking and planning the perceived 'hard' things, whereas it's all to easy to reach for the iron and get solder everywhere before you realise you should the 'easy' stuff differently. I reckon I will anneal my beading (gently) and then work it into place and get the fit spot on. I've never yet gone "gosh, I wish I hadn't spent so much time getting that piece to fit" whereas I have often wished the opposite. BTW I think beading is covered quite nicely in the Connoisseur Models guide designed to go with his starter kit. That guide was enough to make me think I could tackle a kit myself and I plan to return the favour by getting his Jinty kit when next in the UK: no valve gear to worry about! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 By beading are you referring to the Bands Tim? No need to anneal them I just tinned them while in the etch and rolled them with a bit of broom handle on a telephone book, simples Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think that Tim is referring to to the bits that you have just fitted to the rear of the cab and roof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Boiler bands are I find best done with magic tape painted the body colour after painting. Then when varnished they are there for good. Very quick simple, clean and can even be lined before adding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 What's magic tape? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It is a selotape made by Scotch. It is better than the normal one and is translucent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 I think that Tim is referring to to the bits that you have just fitted to the rear of the cab and roof. Ah Thanks OzzyO, Start at the bottom Tim and work upwards, Tis a mighty fiddly job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2014 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I think that Tim is referring to to the bits that you have just fitted to the rear of the cab and roof. Yes, those, but also the cab cut-outs - which are a point of difference between the Scot cab and yours. I don't like trying to find a former the right size for tight bends and complex shapes because you need to account for the thickness of the metal and the residual 'spring' and I never get the curve in quite the right place. Forming in situ using the piece it's mating to as the former sounds attractive and I've enjoyed working with the softer annealed brass. With thin etchings though it probably wouldn't be necessary and it would be easy to get it too hot. I'll shut up since I have no experience!. I'm interested in the brass vs tape boiler bands too. Not decided which way to go yet on mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Spent the last few days preparing, and repairing You solder one piece and another makes a run for it The fallplate is now in place and made a start on the backplate. This is just dry fitted but gives an idea of how it should turn out, the smokebox front is held by blue tac so not representative of how it will look when fitted. Have lost a lot of enthusiasm having to re-do things, It always seems one step fwd two back for me at the moment. Edit: I spent a lot of time getting nowhere filling the corners of the backplate so I decided to cut them out, It actually worked a treat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 "Edit: I spent a lot of time getting nowhere filling the corners of the backplate so I decided to cut them out, It actually worked a treat." Hi John, Seems like this is par for the course with these kits. Had to do the same with my Javelin version. As I said when we met last year, the Black 5 is a complex kit to build and would not be easy, but look how well you have done! Keep you chin up, you'll get there in the end and have a model to be proud of. We all have to un-solder and re-do bits from time to time. That's all part of kit (and scratch building). Took me a bout 5 attempts to get the bl**dy buffer beam on centrally on my 57XX the other day! Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Thanks Peter, No one said it would be easy, It's just frustration I think. Peter, anyone, what gauge wire did you use for the pipework on the backplate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Thanks Peter, No one said it would be easy, It's just frustration I think. Peter, anyone, what gauge wire did you use for the pipework on the backplate? John, I think this is the wrong question - you're building a model of a Black V, hopefully, not a model of someone else's model? Attached is the pipe & rod diagram of the boiler backhead on a late version Black V. It looks very complicated but you can simplify by just including the main items. I've marked on the 7 mm scale diameters of the main pipes. You will see that the pipes to gauges and drains from the water level gauges are very small - much smaller than appears in the photo of the other model. A good rear end photo of a loco separated from its tender would also help. I'm sure there's some published. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2014 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Spent the last few days preparing, and repairing You solder one piece and another makes a run for it DSCN0595.JPG The fallplate is now in place and made a start on the backplate. This is just dry fitted but gives an idea of how it should turn out, the smokebox front is held by blue tac so not representative of how it will look when fitted. DSCN0600.JPG . DSCN0599.JPG Have lost a lot of enthusiasm having to re-do things, It always seems one step fwd two back for me at the moment. Edit: I spent a lot of time getting nowhere filling the corners of the backplate so I decided to cut them out, It actually worked a treat. Now that's looking like a loco! But It might be time to take a break for a few days? But try and do it when you are happy with something - so focus on one thing and get it done well, then rest and regain the mojo. Or just put it down for a bit if it's all a little overwhelming and do something completely different. It sounds like you've had some stuff unsoldering? Is your iron a digital soldering station? I (very reluctantly) invested in a Micron digital soldering station from our local electronics hobbyist after deciding a dimmer switch on a conventional iron wasn't going to work for me. It was the cheapest station they did and will do 150 C to 450 C (I think, I never use it past 380 and get out a big 80W monster or a flame if I really need heat). I cannot imagine building a kit like this without it now - although I know there are alternatives. I've also found my alligator clips to be very useful heatsinks when working on laminated etchings and see you have some too. You can clip them on between a delicate part and the current joint and heat that leaks from where you are making the current joint *has* to warm up the clip rather than conduct along to wreak delamination havoc. That buys you time, and if things aren't going well, you have to decide when to bug out and let everything cool down before trying again - or figuring out a better way. If you are really worried, you can clamp some damp paper onto the metal too and create some steam while limiting the metal temp to around 100 C. Look I really don't want you or anyone to think that this is supposed to be tried and trusted wisdom, I'm offering it up only because if I've learnt one thing in life it's that experienced people never realise how much they know and so sometimes the inexperienced can help other newcomers because they are struggling with the same difficulties that the experienced forgot about years ago. True craftsmen don't think consciously about the actions they use to weave their magic and although the web is great, it's limited when it comes to the sort of practical disciplines that lend themselves to apprenticeships - imagine if experts like Ozzy could watch us try a tricky joint and point out our errors just before we made them? Back in the real world, I believe that whatever you do as a hobby should be enjoyable. Challenging is fine, but continuous challenge is for mountaineers, not model train enthusiasts! So take your time, break the seemingly intractable problems into stages and knock them off one at a time. Or do something else that you know won't be quite so challenging so you can rebuild your enthusiasm and confidence. Don't give up, but do consider taking a break for a bit if it's getting to you, it won't always be fun, but it has to be satisfying overall. You can do this but you don't need to rush. Now I'll stop procrastinating and cluttering up your thread and get back to the other side of my valve gear! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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