steve fay Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 John, will you be painting up that brake Van you built? You have the front end power now under way and the brake van to go at the other end! Just need to fill the middle but in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 Steve I sprayed the brake van with clear cellulose so a paint job might be difficult, Or I could send it to OzzyO and get it dipped The last few days have been spent on preparation and working out the motion and slide bars and all the detail that goes with them. So happy with the slide bars I had to fit them in the front bracket, it was far too tight and effectively closed up the slide bar enough to stop the piston moving at all ( No force was used, honest ) so remembering Martyn's tip about cusps I removed them from the upper and lower slots in the motion bracket on both sides. Both fit very nicely and the piston has a lovely movement, I've fitted both relief valves with a dab of solder and here they are just dry fitted. All the rest of the parts now prepared for fitting Now I'm getting more confident with the soldering iron but a few WM pieces have lost wax pieces that need attached, Hmm even with low melt solder my confidence isn't that great Grasshopper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Grit blast it!! The brake van that is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2014 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Kenton, if you would like to help John would you like to identify the castings using the parts list? msg-14207-0-11449700-1430754637.jpg Casting No's.pdf ATB OzzyO. It's coming together nicely John. I will be watching closely as you work on the valve gear. And I've just played the 'identify the casting' game with my Scot castings. It wasn't much fun, but did reveal I'm missing some (almost certainly my fault). I think I'd be game to photo and attempt to name my remaining ones against the casting list. If a couple of you experts could review and correct any mistakes, it might help us first-timers learn what all the proper names are as well as make identifying a particular casting a fair bit easier? I also found the Scot instructions had a casting mis-numbered between the hand-drawn diags and the casting numbers, easy to do given the number of individual bits, but again, a source of potential confusion. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Hello Grasshopper, one thing that you do want to check is that the front and rear faces of the cylinders and the front motion bracket all run parallel to each other. So you may have a bit more to do to get that right. Looking at the length of the piston rod that's going to need cutting back. I'll give you a text in the morning. Tim , this is a photo of the parts that Grasshopper has for the Black5, some of them may? be common to the Scott that your building. If the parts on the list have a line though them they are not on the photo or are not required in this build. The part numbers may not be the same in your kit. If the parts have a red number or a ? mark next to them I'm not sure about them due to the photo. HTH OzzyO. PS. if you want to post a photo of the castings and the list I'll do my best to help you out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hello Grasshopper, one thing that you do want to check is that the front and rear faces of the cylinders and the front motion bracket all run parallel to each other. So you may have a bit more to do to get that right. Looking at the length of the piston rod that's going to need cutting back. I'll give you a text in the morning. I will check them First thing OzzyO, I 'hope' the cylinder is OK as it's mounted on a spacer that has a downward slope towards the back, and I did struggle a bit to fold the cylinder in the first place. Re piston rod I know but I have no idea of the amount to be removed, I would have liked to fit the coupling rods and connecting rods to make sure but I'm sure you have a cunning plan PS I have the heebie jeebies thinking of what I have to try and put together today so no pressure. Grasshopper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 OzzyO, I checked the motion brackets the front is meant I think to be at a slight angle to match the cylinder frame and the cut out in the frame is also slightly at an angle so I think all is good. A nerve racking morning, I just couldn't get the slide bars right, so had a break and laminated the connecting rods and finished them off. Back to the slide bars, after a break it 'seemed' a bit easier. So with not enough hands as per, I have put them and the valve guides in place. To my eye they are all square and parallel but before I continue to fit the rest of the parts to the cylinder frame I just need your expert opinion please. Grasshopper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The slidebars are at the correct angle when a line drawn through the piston rod passes through the centre of whichever driving wheel the connecting rod will connect to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Grasshopper, here is a link to the Royal Scott build. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/91887-7mm-gladiator-royal-scot-build/page-4&do=findComment&comment=1880861 OzzyO. PS. have a look at post No.76. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Thanks OzzyO I found it I think I'm just a bit ahead of Tim as I couldn't find anything with the motion / slide bars in place. I Found that drawing and Jeff's comment very useful, thats when the penny dropped Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 So I had to un solder the slide bars and valve guides clean everything up and start again, I knew How the slide bars needed to go ( Thanks Jeff, OzzyO ) but the front motion bracket would only allow them to sit square, So I gave the slots in the motion bracket a "downwards' slant top and bottom, took a while but got there in the end. Then it was a case of re assembly, as Jeff pointed out the piston rods now have a slight downwards angle and when I put the connecting rods as an extension it's exactly over the hole of the middle driver, Phew. While I had the iron on I attached the cylinder and valve front covers, relief valves, and the snifters. Thats the cylinder frame almost complete. My one little niggle is with the cylinder frame, It should be NS for a bit more strength the brass one is far too flimsy even after soldering the seams, It's very easy too push out of shape as I did without noticing, I had assembled the slide bars and valve guide on the left and right, then I saw the left was pushed forwards, that was because you have to hold the slide bars in place to solder them to the front motion bracket. Ho Hum. Grasshopper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Just a little progress before lunch A bit, well a lot of fettling before I was happy with the slide bars and conn rods. So out with the soldering iron and I've fixed the cross-heads to the conn rods a dry run with the mini drill and all is good. Grasshopper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Looks powerful with only one wheel...LOL Enjoying this build. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 If it's going to happen it happens to me, went to the WB to start a bit of work and just had to make sure the conn rods and slide bars hadn't decided to move overnight, Thats when I noticed my mistake. The Inst say to enhance appearance drill a hole above the locking nut on the cross head, You guessed it, I drilled said holes but put the cross heads on the wrong $###$&$ way round. All rectified now the holes are at the TOP and she runs sweetly, am getting good at this recovery lark though Grasshopper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 A slow frustrating day, But eventually I overcame some hurdles, namely fitting the drop link to the crossheads then the connecting link then the combination lever. I tried wire, no good. 14ba CH bolt with washer, nope. 14ba CH bolt with nut done it ! Solder runs everywhere even though I used a cig paper to stem the flow I couldn't get the connecting link and combination lever to move freely as the solder ran through and stuck everything firmly. I managed it in the end by using 14ba nut and bolt and soldering the nut holding it at a 90dg angle, Then I filed the nut down for clearance over the slidebar bracket then filed the bolt ( which was at front ) head flush to give a better appearance. The valve guide and spindle are causing problems, for very little movement a lot of fettling needs to be done. Grasshopper. Edit: I fitted the bogie and all the drivers to make sure of clearance, all good and runs nicely ( ATM ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I have to say I admire your perseverance to get it right - there are some of us who might just take an easier route. 1mm here or there is well beyond the eye's ability to distinguish. Solder runs everywhere even though I used a cig paper to stem the flow I couldn't get the connecting link and combination lever to move freely as the solder ran through and stuck everything firmly. A tip for stopping solder - well 2 of them -1 - use solder mask (aka boot polish) the waxy oil will prevent solder sticking - It is excellent for protecting threads but can be a bit of a pain to remove (if you need to paint or solder later) use solvents (care as heat makes it run so it can be a bit of a trial and error as to how much to use. 2 - another trick is to paint the part (not so good for threads as it can also be difficult to remove. But is good for sheet work to stop solder running. use abrasive to remove, or simply paint over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot6p Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Hi John, you can also use Birchwood Casey Gun Blue. Len Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Or you can use a Rizla like you have tried, put it in place and then dampen it with some light machine oil like 3 in 1. Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Rizla have been fine so far It might be the brass nuts & bolts I used ? I Like that idea of a bit of oil Martyn will give it a try today. Have to look at the valve spindles valve guides, radius rod, expansion link, reversing lever and eccentric rod so plenty to do. Grasshopper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 One thing that I use is a permanent marker pen, and it's easy to clean off. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thanks Simon, the marker pen and rizla worked very well A lot of preparation first thing getting the valve spindle to fit inside the guide, then a slow and sometimes frustrating assembly of the radius rod,and expansion link. All fitted and running very nicely. I've prepared the reversing levers eccentric rod and return crank, It's just as well DA made the whole motion bracket removable as I would have been in trouble. Grasshopper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Hi John, This loco build is coming along nicely, you get this valve gear working smoothly without any tight spots and the rest of the build will be a walk in the park . Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 So far so good Martyn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2014 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 This thread is a fantastic help John. I've been dreading beginning the valve gear and I'm certain I would have made a right hash of it. I'm still very, very nervous, but your sequential photos (and mishaps too) will be an enormous help. I love that you are building up your confidence too. Thanks so much for detailing your work, keep it up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Cheers Tim, I have had advice on the way, but I have managed to assemble inside out, upside down, and in the wrong place I have a habit of Thinking I know what goes where great experience for recovery though. Here is another one. I was working on the reverse levers this morning getting them in place was an effort using wire so I used a 12ba nut and CH bolt. Then I noticed the expansion link had a hole mid way down, then the penny dropped I had connected the radius rod through the link to the support bar, Wrong, the radius rod should have been in the hole that had nothing in it. So another dismantle of all and a refit. Now its much better and everything that should move does Glad the motion bracket is re moveable as things would have been a bit harder than I already made things for myself. Just the eccentric rods to concentrate on then start on the final wheel assembly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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